low carb Does work!!!!
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »"I didn't eat fruit regularly for years! Now I'm not suggesting eating a pound of oranges in one sitting... I'm talking about one orange a day. It just wasn't in my keto budget. From low carb I would look at a perfectly nutritious peach and pass it up. When you are systematically passing up foods meal after meal (to stick with 25-75 carbs), that is restriction."
I eat fruit and vegetables on a low carb diet. Rather a lot of them in fact. I don't understand these sorts of comments at all. I eat a fairly strict low carb diet and just this weekend I ate oranges.
Two normal sized oranges (247g) have 31g carbs and 5g fiber. My net carbs for that day ended up being 48g. (The rest of my carbs came from almonds, pistachios, romaine lettuce, tomatoes, onions, and cucumber.)
I absolutely believe @75poundstogo when they say their low carb diet was restrictive and not a good fit for them but comments stating you can't eat fruit and vegetables on a low carb diet are just not true. It's exactly like counting calories in that regard; you prioritize what's important to you and make it fit.
It depends how low of a low carber you are and how much fruits and vegetables your diet usually contains. Those comments are likely directed at a specific low carb trend: The ketogenic/phase 1 Atkins kind of diet where you only eat 20 net carbs. When my regular day to day consumption of vegetables alone is 40-80 net carbs, and that's without counting fruits , low carb for me does mean having to restrict fruits and vegetables.1 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »kristen6350 wrote: »Most "weight loss plans" have people eating all their carbs in the AM...some BS about them getting processed better. But if I have carbs early, I'm hungry, much like the OP. So I eat protien, dairy and veggies all day and have a bowl of cereal (or ice cream) at night before bed. That way I'm never hungry and I don't feel like I'm missing out. And I balance out my calories better. And I lose weight easier...but it's still all about calories. Finding a way to get those calories in and it not be hard is the key.
Dairy and veggies are carbs.
Dairy and veggies contain carbs, yes. Full fat dairy and fibrous veggies are low carb. But you knew that
Depends on what you mean by "low carb" -- by percentage of calories or total carbs. I think of vegetables as "carbs," much more than treats that often get called "carbs" but have half or more of their calories from fat. Dairy contains carbs in varying amounts. Cheese and butter, not much. Even whole milk, more carbs than protein. And the poster did not say full fat.
Point is not that one can't eat vegetables on a low carb diet, but that "carbs" should not be used to refer exclusively to a certain subset of carbs (or foods that are only a minority "carbs" as so often is the case). Pet peeve, as you know.
Anyway, I happen to agree with the poster that a diet plan based on being high carb/low protein in the morning and low carb in the evening would not work for me (just as she thinks it would not work for her). I'm better off getting in a good amount of protein (and vegetables, which I consider carbs) at all meals. Didn't read the poster to be low carb, but perhaps she is. (Like I said way up thread, of course low carb works, but so do the numerous other ways to get a deficit.)
ITA with the bolded. There are carbs in everything (even meat has a minute amount!) so yes, dairy and veggies are "carbs", but I think it was obvious, in the context it was written in, that she was referring to grains, fruit, and high sugar/starch foods.
I don't know if she is low carb (didn't really sound like it, sounds more like nutrient timing). I know I'm better off having a higher carb "treat" in the evening (if I have one at all), since a high carb food will lead to me feeling hungry or having cravings... I'm better off dealing with that just before bed so it's over by the time I wake up, rather than starting the day that way and having to deal with it all day long.
I, for one, blame the USDA and MyPlate. Once they replaced the "meat group" with "protein" (so NOT a food group), they set everyone up with this kind of confusion. It's no wonder that people are now referring to macros as "food groups". #bringbackthemeatgroup
Meat only has minute amounts of carbs. But if you were to eat a high amount of your calories in vegetables or milk, a high percentage of those calories would come from carbs. They can only be considered "low carb" if you eat low enough calories of it that it's not many carbs. But if that's your definition of "low carb" then a donut is low carb too as long as you only eat a bite or two.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
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Agree low carb works really well.
Once you start eating carbs again though...0 -
I eat tons of carbs, drink a LOT of beers, and take in mostly carbs. I lose weight just fine.
The anecdotal rhetoric is awesome.0 -
75poundstogo wrote: »
First off, everything in moderation. If you are consuming hundreds upon hundreds of carbs a day, that will be messing with your blood sugar levels. If you are eating in such a way that puts you at risk for insulin resistance/pre-diabetes, then you need to examine your relationship to carbs and sugar.
Second, I think its a good idea for anyone to do a challenge (maybe 15-30 days) on reducing carbs and sugars. Doing this myself, it taught me to build meals around nutrition, limit added sugars, and re-set your satiation getting touch with feeling full.
Third, my philosophy is to try to eat as much whole food and eliminate added sugar. If you'd look at my diary now you may see more processed food, but that's because I'm still getting used to this whole calorie counting thing... One challenge I am learning to overcome is how to accurately record nutrition and calories for my favorite recipes. One step at a time.
Eating low carb taught me so much.
That said, the low carb community has taken a life sustaining, required nutrient and put a negative label on it. I'm sorry but if you look at a food (excluding candy, pop, fake foods) and decide not to ingest it due to carbs, that is demonizing a nutrient. I didn't eat fruit regularly for years! Now I'm not suggesting eating a pound of oranges in one sitting... I'm talking about one orange a day. It just wasn't in my keto budget. From low carb I would look at a perfectly nutritious peach and pass it up. When you are systematically passing up foods meal after meal (to stick with 25-75 carbs), that is restriction. My argument is that any restriction can be psychologically damaging.
I'm sure that some people feel that they are psychologically restricted when calorie counting. But at least you can budget for a peach or a slice of cake. Most people who log accurately and care about staying under their goals will not eat the whole cake or a pound of peaches. So naturally, they won't be at as high of a risk for carb related disease.
Most people really shouldn't need to do low carb for weight loss or health for that matter. Unless you prefer to live in a state of ketogenisis (its not bad just needs to be monitored and maintained), you don't need to really do Low Carb.
If you are eating taco bell burritos, washing it down with a bowl of mac and cheese, then eating cheerios for breakfast - I argue yes, you are slowly killing yourself with carbs. You are damaging your hormonal system. There is a lot of phenomenal research coming out that insulin resistance (increased blood sugar due to sugary diets) is linked to heart disease, diabetes, IBS, etc etc.
People who are not insulin resistant or suffering from a disease that benefits from low carb treatment, don't really need to do Low Carb... especially for weight loss.
I have known probably over 50 friends in my real life that have done some sort of version of low carb and I can think of maybe 1 or 2 that kept at it more than 1-2 months.
First, "everything in moderation" does work well for a good deal of people. It doesn't work for me. Certain foods increase my appetite and cause me to experience cravings and I find it easier and more effective to simply eliminate them from my diet. I do understand that some people find making certain foods "off limits" actually increases their desire for those foods, but I experience the opposite. It's when I try to "fit in" small amounts of those foods that my willpower falters.
Second, I agree that playing with macros can be helpful for determining which foods are satiety promoting and which ones only fuel hunger. I also think it's a good idea for everyone, regardless of plan, to log and track calories for a time, to get a sense of just exactly what a reasonable portion of food looks like.
Third, I too try to focus on minimally processed foods (I find LC to be helpful for that, as many heavily processed foods contain either a high amount of carbs, or less than stellar fat sources, or both).
As for "life sustaining, required nutrient" ... Here's where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. There are no essential carbs. Your body can make all the glucose it needs. There is no minimum dietary requirement. That's not to say that higher carb diets are necesarily harmful, but they aren't required either. They are simply a matter of personal preference. I eat between 50-80 g of carbs per day. I eat plenty of fruit! I focus on low sugar fruit and savory fruit, but I get at least a couple servings in per day. That said, I'm not now, nor have I ever been attempting to stay in ketosis. I never saw the need for myself to do that. I lost all the weight I needed to lose (50 lbs) and have kept it off for close to three years now, without ever actively trying for ketosis (I'm sure there are times when I am in ketosis, but it is not because I am deliberately trying; sometimes I have days above 80g and sometimes days below 50g).
Calorie counting involves a different type of restriction. I know that if I have that one slice of cake (and I do eat cake on occasion, even while following LC), I am going to crave more. I am not going to be satisfied with the small amount that I might be able to work in. I am going to fixate on it. I'm going to struggle not to go back for more cake, or some other food. My appetite will be up for a couple of days. On low carb, I can have that odd piece of cake, end it, get back to LC, ride out the day or two of increased appetite and cravings, and then get back to feeling like a normal person again. On straight calorie counting, I couldn't do that. Why? Because I'd try to fit in those types of treats too often. Then the constant feeling of deprivation (from not getting as much as I wanted) coupled with the increased appetite and cravings would wear on me, leading me to give up and over eat.
We all have to restrict something. You found restricting carbs to be psychologically damaging. I found restricting calories to be similarly difficult (I don't know that I would say "psychologically damaging"... those are strong words...). I find carb restriction liberating! I don't expect everyone would feel that way.
I've not been formally diagnosed with IR. But (and you knew there was a but, lol) I have a strong family history of type 2 diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's, obesity, and metabolic syndrome. All can be linked to IR, as you mentioned. I'm hoping that by restricting my carb intake now, before I end up totally metabolically deranged, maybe I'll reduce my risk. Heck, the weight loss alone decreases my risk. I understand that there is a high failure rate with any diet, including low carb. I'm highly motivated to stick with it, and am quite happy with it. In the first six weeks I tried it my eczema disappeared, and has stayed gone since then, not to mention I haven't had a hypo (I have reactive hypoglycemia, often a precursor for diabetes) in the thre years I've been eating this way. Those two things alone are enough to keep my head in the game! For me, it's not simply about weight. Perhaps that's a part of why I've been so successful with it.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »"I didn't eat fruit regularly for years! Now I'm not suggesting eating a pound of oranges in one sitting... I'm talking about one orange a day. It just wasn't in my keto budget. From low carb I would look at a perfectly nutritious peach and pass it up. When you are systematically passing up foods meal after meal (to stick with 25-75 carbs), that is restriction."
I eat fruit and vegetables on a low carb diet. Rather a lot of them in fact. I don't understand these sorts of comments at all. I eat a fairly strict low carb diet and just this weekend I ate oranges.
Two normal sized oranges (247g) have 31g carbs and 5g fiber. My net carbs for that day ended up being 48g. (The rest of my carbs came from almonds, pistachios, romaine lettuce, tomatoes, onions, and cucumber.)
I absolutely believe @75poundstogo when they say their low carb diet was restrictive and not a good fit for them but comments stating you can't eat fruit and vegetables on a low carb diet are just not true. It's exactly like counting calories in that regard; you prioritize what's important to you and make it fit.
+1
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stevencloser wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »kristen6350 wrote: »Most "weight loss plans" have people eating all their carbs in the AM...some BS about them getting processed better. But if I have carbs early, I'm hungry, much like the OP. So I eat protien, dairy and veggies all day and have a bowl of cereal (or ice cream) at night before bed. That way I'm never hungry and I don't feel like I'm missing out. And I balance out my calories better. And I lose weight easier...but it's still all about calories. Finding a way to get those calories in and it not be hard is the key.
Dairy and veggies are carbs.
Dairy and veggies contain carbs, yes. Full fat dairy and fibrous veggies are low carb. But you knew that
Depends on what you mean by "low carb" -- by percentage of calories or total carbs. I think of vegetables as "carbs," much more than treats that often get called "carbs" but have half or more of their calories from fat. Dairy contains carbs in varying amounts. Cheese and butter, not much. Even whole milk, more carbs than protein. And the poster did not say full fat.
Point is not that one can't eat vegetables on a low carb diet, but that "carbs" should not be used to refer exclusively to a certain subset of carbs (or foods that are only a minority "carbs" as so often is the case). Pet peeve, as you know.
Anyway, I happen to agree with the poster that a diet plan based on being high carb/low protein in the morning and low carb in the evening would not work for me (just as she thinks it would not work for her). I'm better off getting in a good amount of protein (and vegetables, which I consider carbs) at all meals. Didn't read the poster to be low carb, but perhaps she is. (Like I said way up thread, of course low carb works, but so do the numerous other ways to get a deficit.)
ITA with the bolded. There are carbs in everything (even meat has a minute amount!) so yes, dairy and veggies are "carbs", but I think it was obvious, in the context it was written in, that she was referring to grains, fruit, and high sugar/starch foods.
I don't know if she is low carb (didn't really sound like it, sounds more like nutrient timing). I know I'm better off having a higher carb "treat" in the evening (if I have one at all), since a high carb food will lead to me feeling hungry or having cravings... I'm better off dealing with that just before bed so it's over by the time I wake up, rather than starting the day that way and having to deal with it all day long.
I, for one, blame the USDA and MyPlate. Once they replaced the "meat group" with "protein" (so NOT a food group), they set everyone up with this kind of confusion. It's no wonder that people are now referring to macros as "food groups". #bringbackthemeatgroup
Meat only has minute amounts of carbs. But if you were to eat a high amount of your calories in vegetables or milk, a high percentage of those calories would come from carbs. They can only be considered "low carb" if you eat low enough calories of it that it's not many carbs. But if that's your definition of "low carb" then a donut is low carb too as long as you only eat a bite or two.
Yes, it is true that you look not only at the carb amount in the food you are eating (and the amount of food you can get for that), but also your day's allotment. I'd have a hard time eating enough broccoli to put me over on carbs for the day tho. Milk, even whole milk, would be pretty easy to go over on carbs with. I generally go for lower carb dairy (butter, cheese, cream) for that very reason. Occasionally I do find it worth it to work in a bit of higher sugar fruit or starchy veg, but the pitiful amount of donut I could work in? No, not worth it.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
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Chitchatkat wrote: »YES! LCHF (emphasis on high fat) absolutely does work...AND it's the healthiest way to eat because it suppresses the insulin surges caused by carbs. LCHF eating heals the body and nourishes the brain. It gets our bodies to burn stored fat for fuel, which leads to inches lost gradually. I highly recommend that you read Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes. He explains the science behind lchf. Don't buy into the calorie counting diets that include carbs...they're unhealthy, unsustainable, & don't work. I lost 34 lbs post-menopause at 56. I'm 58 now & feel younger & more energetic than ever.
You lost me at "AND it's the healthiest way to eat.." I think you're serving up a baloney sammich here.
I eat plenty of carbs. I count calories. I am diabetic. My Dr did not say one single thing to me about low carb.
He said "Get Active" "Lose Weight" I have dropped over 70 pounds in 5 months counting calories.
I am on NO meds for diabetes. My BP was 111/71 .
I'm buying into CICO. I will be 58 in September and I know CICO is something I can live with long term.
A healthy balanced diet and exercise. It's the bomb! (and I am not interested in what Gary Taubes has to say. This is not rocket science. There are no special diets needed to simply lose weight in a healthy fashion.4 -
See I don't get this divide. I count calories AND carbs because I'm an emotional eater. I will being eating LCHF for life and probably calorie counting as well. I don't see why people think it's always one or the other, both are equally important for people like me with insulin resistance, PCOS and emotional attachment to food.2
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »See I don't get this divide. I count calories AND carbs because I'm an emotional eater. I will being eating LCHF for life and probably calorie counting as well. I don't see why people think it's always one or the other, both are equally important for people like me with insulin resistance, PCOS and emotional attachment to food.
It is because there are some people lose weight really well on high carb. A study I read about this morning reported that people who are insulin sensitive lose 2 times faster on high carb while those who are insulin resistant lose 2 times faster on low carb. People on MFP naturally tout what works for them because that is what they get results from. Plenty of people lose weight eating high carbs.4 -
... I think it's important for people to discover what works for them and their lifestyle . I don't subscribe to any particular diet and love my carbs. Thanfully it hasn't been an issue for my weightloss.
Yes, it is important to discover what works. I also love carbs but have to limit them for myself. It is great that you can eat them with no issues. I was like that about 15 years ago but got insulin resistance. Now I have to pay attention to limiting carbs.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....1 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
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The most astounding part for me is that there is not a single long term study that shows eat less/move more results in weight loss for any extended period of time. The reasoning for why that is validated my own weight gain journey over my lifetime.
The thing is that there is ALSO not a single long-term study that shows that LCHF results in maintained, sustainable weight loss either.
The elephant in the room here is that what long-term studies have shown is that the vast majority of people who lose significant weight, no matter how they do it, wind up regaining. No matter how they lose it. So whatever you do, you have to plan on working that plan (or some equally successful FOR YOU plan) for the rest of your life.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
Weight loss is such a mental game that I could see how changing your diet to find a way that messes with your mind less (like faster recovery from water weight gain) could lead to much better adherence.
In fact, I don't know how much low carb really benefits people health at all beyond mentality. But being able to see improvements in things like cravings and water weight swings could easily lead to better adherence, lead to longer period of weight loss, and therefore improved health.
And since it is a mind game, it doesn't work for everyone (nor are the benefits necessary for success for a lot of people).1 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
Weight loss is such a mental game that I could see how changing your diet to find a way that messes with your mind less (like faster recovery from water weight gain) could lead to much better adherence.
In fact, I don't know how much low carb really benefits people health at all beyond mentality. But being able to see improvements in things like cravings and water weight swings could easily lead to better adherence, lead to longer period of weight loss, and therefore improved health.
And since it is a mind game, it doesn't work for everyone (nor are the benefits necessary for success for a lot of people).
ITA. So much if adherence is a mind game. Seeing faster recovery from "cheat meals" was something I noticed very early on and I can't tell you how happy it made me, lol. That was something I really struggled with using other methods. I know I'm not perfect and I know I'm going to indulge occasionally; finding out that those "cheats" didn't screw me up for weeks on end was something I was hugely thrilled about!
It probably also helps that I did see some immediate health benefits on low carb, before I'd even lost much weight. In the first six weeks my eczema disappeared (I'd had chronic, moderate to severe eczema on my hands for seven years and had tried everything to get rid of it, to no avail). I had only lost about 12 lbs at that point, but it was my first epiphany with this way of eating. I knew I couldn't go back to eating the foods that had apparently caused me so much pain and suffering for so many years, even if I never lost another single lb. The second epiphany came later, about a year or so in. I'd already lost all the weight I needed to lose at that point, but I realized that I hadn't had a hypoglycemic episode since I started eating this way. I've had hypos since childhood (earliest one I remember was when I was 8 years old; I was not an overweight kid, so I don't think my hypoglycemia is related to my weight). So for me it remains about more than my dress size or some number on the scale. I really do see some major health improvements, independent of weight loss. I'm pretty sure that helps me with adherence - I don't want the eczema (and the intense itching and red hot pain of a thousand suns) to come back, and I don't want to have to carry mints in my car, candies in my purse, and always keep juice on hand just in case I hit the floor because I haven't eaten in two hours (not to mention the fear that this will happen in front of my kids, or behind the wheel, or that I won't make it to my sugar source in time and maybe one time I won't wake up!). Those two factors keep me on plan, no matter how "tempting" carby foods may be.
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low carb is fine if you don't mind the potential for wasting of muscle tissue for aminos. Im in it to build up my body not tear down. Its all a matter of goals. If weight maintenance is the ONLY goal than just do Atkins. To each their own. I tried low carb. I lost mad weight fast. My strength tanked as well. Im simply too active for a low carb diet.1
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