Cardio vs lifting while trying to lose weight
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pompeyjosh1990 wrote: »MitchWhite2015 wrote: »Cardio and weight lifting are both vital for weight loss. Cardio increases your metabolism,
No.... heightens your immune system and help your respiratory system as well.
Yes.Weight training ... help you burn more fat in specific areas.
No.
Weight training assists you in burning fat, it doesn't actually burn FAT cardio doesn't increase your metabolism. Food Intake increases your metabolism depending on what you eat.
The impact of calories burned through digestion (TEF) is minimal. The only noticeable impact would be if you went from an ultra low fat diet, to a high protein diet.0 -
Still a positive influence but really wasn't the primary point of my post.
Although yes, more muscle has a positive influence on your metabolism it would be incorrect to suggest muscle weighs more than fat. A Lb of fat will weight exactly the same as a Lb of muscle, there would be more of the fat than muscle because of mass/density. Weight and mass/density are not the same.jollyjeepers wrote: »The one thing that I don't think has been mentioned here (unless I missed it) is that while muscle does weigh more than fat, the more muscle you have the more fat it will burn with metabolism.
As for myself, I typically strength train 5 days a week for about 40-50 minutes and generally (but not always) follow it up with a 15 min HIIT routine on my static bike.
You need to gain a lot of muscle to have any real positive impact on energy expended. For each lb you gain, its roughly 4-6 extra calories burned per day.
Noted. But I also like people to have realistic expectations. There used to be a believe that for every lb of muscle you gained, you would burn 25-50 calories per day.0 -
angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.0 -
angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.0 -
A study by McMaster University demonstrated you CAN build muscle in a calorie deficit IF that diet is supplemented by high protein intake I.e 1g+ of protein per Lb of body weight. And if we are going to be picky, there's actually 3 types of muscle (fibres).CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
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A study by McMaster University demonstrated you CAN build muscle in a calorie deficit IF that diet is supplemented by high protein intake I.e 1g+ of protein per Lb of body weight. And if we are going to be picky, there's actually 3 types of muscle (fibres).CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
cam you give me a link to where you got this info? and Im not talking muscle fibers, Im saying lean muscle and that you cant tone muscle0 -
A study by McMaster University demonstrated you CAN build muscle in a calorie deficit IF that diet is supplemented by high protein intake I.e 1g+ of protein per Lb of body weight. And if we are going to be picky, there's actually 3 types of muscle (fibres).CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
THANK YOU!0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
When I say "lean muscle" it's simply a term I use to describe attaining muscle mass versus bulking up. Jeez Louise! What is with everyone on MFP today?! So many people just trying to argue about silliness. No, I'm not new to working out. No, I'm not new to lifting. No, I hadn't taken a break. The gains I've made assuredly aren't "newbie gains". I've been in a deficit for over 6 months now and still am putting on muscle. Slowly, but surely. Why? Because I take in PLENTY of protein each and every day. I measure muscle gain like any other person would. What kinds of questions are these?!
Maybe you're not actually getting as much protein in your system as you think. Ah, yes...because people have agreed with you on here...you MUST be right. I've experienced the gains myself and have read several studies which affirm you can gain muscle on a deficit (as this other poster just mentioned). It IS possible under the right circumstances and with the right nutrition. NOT TO BULK, but to gain muscle. Now I'm done with THIS discussion as well. It's like playing chess with a pigeon...1 -
A study by McMaster University demonstrated you CAN build muscle in a calorie deficit IF that diet is supplemented by high protein intake I.e 1g+ of protein per Lb of body weight. And if we are going to be picky, there's actually 3 types of muscle (fibres).CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
Do you have the study? I would enjoy reading it. Generally the recommended is 1g per lb of lean body mass with the except of very lean individuals which would benefit from additional protein. But carb level is very important if the ultimate goal is to add some muscle during a deficit. Not only is it muscle sparring but it stimulates muscle protein synthesis and the associated hormones (e.g., testosterone) to encourage muscle growth. Its one reason why its very difficult to gain muscle with keto or lchf diets which only tend to be muscle sparring at best.1 -
I will note that ultimately it doesnt really matter if you do gain a little muscle or just preserve it, if you enjoy the end result then everything is solid. And i am personally more concerned with how I look than the semantics of if i gained muscle or not.2
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I found this interview with the guy who did said study. Can't find the study though.
http://www.leanbodiesconsulting.com/articles/the-protein-interview-an-interview-with-dr-stuart-phillips/
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I recently did a weight loss program and lost 55 lbs of fat, gained ~8 lbs LBM, in about 8 months. Most of the weight loss was done in 4 months. YMMV, but I started with Medifast which was severe calorie deficit but, against program rules, started a weight lifting program (not heavy.) I also supplemented 30g whey isolate (important to use isolate) protein on top of the Medifast diet. This got about 40 lbs off and I started to reverse diet, slowly working my calories back up to TDEE+. About 2 month in, I learned a bit more about it and started lifting heavy, 4 days/wk, ~1hr sessions and upped my protein to ~1.1g/lb body weight. The basic 4 lifts plus some assist exercises. I also started some cardio, but again looking at the evidence, kept it to 2-3 sessions/wk of 30 mins each doing HIIT. Right now, I'm at 9% BF, 203 lbs, and feeling great. All that to say, lift heavy, no too much cardio, use HIIT, and I"m not sure I'd recommend the severe calorie restriction again unless you were in a hurry, generally I lost almost 15 of my lbs of fat during the reverse diet. For a women's program along the same lines, check out http://www.muscleforlife.com/the-ultimate-fitness-plan-for-women/0
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV
That's actually not right. As long as you're getting in enough protein you can definitely maintain, and even build, lean muscle mass. If you're trying to bulk, your statement would be an accurate one.
actually I think psulemon covered it. you gain muscle in a surplus. never said you could not maintain muscle,but when you lose weight you lose some muscle with it,the faster you lose the weight a lot of times the more muscle you lose. protein and lifting on a deficit can help you retain most of what you already have,but for those who have been lifting awhile,you have to feed the muscle for it to grow, which is why a lot of people go through bulk and cut phases.if that was the case then everyone in a deficit who lifts would have muscle and we would not have to go through bulk phases.you are not going to in most cases build any decent amount of muscle in a deficit. you will see the muscles you do have more once you lose the layers of fat over them,you may see more definition,but it doesnt mean its muscle growth.you also get stronger too,but that again doesnt mean an increase in muscle mass.
If you're trying to put on serious muscle, I agree with you. However, I've been in a deficit for months and I have put on muscle mass. Your point is valid if you're going for a genuine bulk. If you're looking to just tone up and build lean muscle, you can repeat your point a million times and you'd still be wrong.
there is only one type of muscle and its all lean muscle. as for toning up,you dont tone anything,you can get a toned look but you dont actually tone muscle.how long have you been lifting while on a deficit? are you new to lifting? have you had muscle before and not lifted for awhile and just now getting back to it? if you answer yes, then most likely those are newbie gains or gains from returning back to lifting. how do you measure your gains? the only other way to build muscle is if you are eating at maintenance calories and doing a recomp which is really slow for most. but most people who are in a 500 calorie or more surplus(less than their TDEE) then they will get newbie gains(if new to lifting) but it does eventually slow down/come to a halt.
if you could build a lot in a deficit by just getting enough protein then in the 4 years I have been lifting I should have a lot of muscle mass,if it were that easy everyone would be gaining muscle and losing fat while eating in a deficit. but you can go on and keep telling me Im wrong if it makes you feel better. others basically said the same things I have as well.
Trying to be helpful not snarky but maybe you need to look at your training? Your training is where it all starts and diet merely supports recovery and growth. You are putting too much emphasis on calories and making very sweeping generalisations. An individual's genetics, capabilities and response to diet and training is just that - individual.
A lot of what you say is true, or has basis in fact, but you can't project your own results to everyone. It could simply be you have been dealt a poor genetic hand of cards for muscle growth?
This is worth a read and has some good links to studies which you may find interesting.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/4 -
I think that's great! Incorporating weight resistance training and cardio like you have been doing these past 2 weeks will make your body a more efficient fat burning machine. In the long haul you will be lean and firm.0
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Techincally both cardio and weight lifting burns calories [around 465 calories per hour according to MFP's exercise database]. Weight lifting has the added benefit of producing aerobic-like benefits for several hours after lifting as the body repairs and replenishes the muscles.
The aerobic benefits of weight lifting isn't as strong as the benefits from cardio, but they're there.0 -
I recently did a weight loss program and lost 55 lbs of fat, gained ~8 lbs LBM, in about 8 months. Most of the weight loss was done in 4 months. YMMV, but I started with Medifast which was severe calorie deficit but, against program rules, started a weight lifting program (not heavy.) I also supplemented 30g whey isolate (important to use isolate) protein on top of the Medifast diet. This got about 40 lbs off and I started to reverse diet, slowly working my calories back up to TDEE+. About 2 month in, I learned a bit more about it and started lifting heavy, 4 days/wk, ~1hr sessions and upped my protein to ~1.1g/lb body weight. The basic 4 lifts plus some assist exercises. I also started some cardio, but again looking at the evidence, kept it to 2-3 sessions/wk of 30 mins each doing HIIT. Right now, I'm at 9% BF, 203 lbs, and feeling great. All that to say, lift heavy, no too much cardio, use HIIT, and I"m not sure I'd recommend the severe calorie restriction again unless you were in a hurry, generally I lost almost 15 of my lbs of fat during the reverse diet. For a women's program along the same lines, check out http://www.muscleforlife.com/the-ultimate-fitness-plan-for-women/
You mind if i ask how you measured body fat and lean body mass gain (<-- keeping in mind lean body mass is more than muscle)?1 -
I haven't read this thread in depth but it looks like there are some arguments about gaining muscle in a deficit. I'll leave this Lawrence Judd and Eric Helms article here. I've read it twice and it hurts my head because I'm a science dunce.
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/1
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