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Basic human physiology & nutrition in schools
rybo
Posts: 5,424 Member
Should a greater emphasis be put on basic physiology and nutrition to be taught in schools. With some of the things you see people ask around here, it seems that a lot could be accomplished with teaching people the basics about carbs, protein & fat and how the body processes the food that you eat. Maybe it would head off much of the bro science and other info-mercial nonsense that is believed.
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Replies
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I'm pretty sure I was taught basic physiology and nutrition in school. It was part of the elementary science curriculum, the middle school home ec curriculum and the high school health curriculum. It still is.
It's absolutely amazing how much information children are subjected to which goes in their ears and out their noses over the course of their education. I suspect details past 'eat a well-balanced diet' are frequently things that simply aren't retained, not because they aren't taught (I work in a public school district and can say with certainty that they still are, at least in my state, and given the ubiquity of standardized education programs suspect this is true everywhere in the USA and likely throughout the western world at the very least), but because they aren't perceived as having immediate impact on most children's lives by those children.
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I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.6
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Fat Activists would throw a fit if public schools tried to teach portion control and nutrition. Look at all the heat Michelle Obama gets over her trying to make school lunches more healthy.8
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The question is are there enough teachers qualified to teach it? It would be great if we could pipe in Alan Aragon and Eric Helms, but I'm afraid we'd get more of the Food Babe approach. My wife and I are teaching our children just fine.1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!
A big part of that lack of retention, is just lack of use and practice. For example, teaching children nutrition at a young age isn't going to do much, if their intake is completely handled (but never explained) by their parents. By the time they are functioning adults, they likely have habits formed that have absolutely nothing to do with science of any sort. It's the same thing with various aspects of math, history and the English language. If you never actually use the information beyond the final test, the brain is eventually going to flush it away as useless.11 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!
A big part of that lack of retention, is just lack of use and practice. For example, teaching children nutrition at a young age isn't going to do much, if their intake is completely handled (but never explained) by their parents. By the time they are functioning adults, they likely have habits formed that have absolutely nothing to do with science of any sort. It's the same thing with various aspects of math, history and the English language. If you never actually use the information beyond the final test, the brain is eventually going to flush it away as useless.
This is very true.
Personally, I believe that nutrition/fitness are better taught at home. That said, if we want kids being educated in it at school, there needs to be practical application of it - calories/macros put on display at meals/snacks (heck, even used in math problems), physical fitness taught every day, etc.2 -
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Nutrition/fitness is better taught at home when the parents know about it and bother to teach it. We learned some stuff about the 4 food groups at school (I'm old), but my innate understanding of what's a sensible meal and what's not comes from habits ingrained at home, I think (plus some stuff I read on my own and expanding the basic cooking skills I learned at home with sensible cook books until I knew what I was doing without them). I think that's ideal. But from what I see (especially since coming to MFP), there are a lot of parents who don't do it or don't know enough to do it.1
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!
A big part of that lack of retention, is just lack of use and practice. For example, teaching children nutrition at a young age isn't going to do much, if their intake is completely handled (but never explained) by their parents. By the time they are functioning adults, they likely have habits formed that have absolutely nothing to do with science of any sort. It's the same thing with various aspects of math, history and the English language. If you never actually use the information beyond the final test, the brain is eventually going to flush it away as useless.
This is very true.
Personally, I believe that nutrition/fitness are better taught at home. That said, if we want kids being educated in it at school, there needs to be practical application of it - calories/macros put on display at meals/snacks (heck, even used in math problems), physical fitness taught every day, etc.
Unfortunately, it also becomes a bit of a chicken and egg problem when teaching at home, at some point. Nutrition being taught at home is no more helpful, if the parents haven't the slightest clue about how it works. They don't have the slightest clue, because they don't care enough to learn, or are in denial (anything else is an excuse for an adult, because the information is readily available now). The only thing worse than no information, is bad information.
I honestly have no clue what the solution is. Some people are going to make it a priority to learn these things. Others will go through life not caring, and just eating whatever tastes good. Another subset still, will grow up to believe *kitten* like the things vomited up by Food Babe and Dr. Oz.2 -
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GuitarJerry wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!
A big part of that lack of retention, is just lack of use and practice. For example, teaching children nutrition at a young age isn't going to do much, if their intake is completely handled (but never explained) by their parents. By the time they are functioning adults, they likely have habits formed that have absolutely nothing to do with science of any sort. It's the same thing with various aspects of math, history and the English language. If you never actually use the information beyond the final test, the brain is eventually going to flush it away as useless.
This is very true.
Personally, I believe that nutrition/fitness are better taught at home. That said, if we want kids being educated in it at school, there needs to be practical application of it - calories/macros put on display at meals/snacks (heck, even used in math problems), physical fitness taught every day, etc.
Unfortunately, it also becomes a bit of a chicken and egg problem when teaching at home, at some point. Nutrition being taught at home is no more helpful, if the parents haven't the slightest clue about how it works. They don't have the slightest clue, because they don't care enough to learn, or are in denial (anything else is an excuse for an adult, because the information is readily available now). The only thing worse than no information, is bad information.
I honestly have no clue what the solution is. Some people are going to make it a priority to learn these things. Others will go through life not caring, and just eating whatever tastes good. Another subset still, will grow up to believe *kitten* like the things vomited up by Food Babe and Dr. Oz.
I'd say with the weight problem we have in America, most parents know very little about nutrition.
"Most" is probably a bit of a stretch. Granted, I doubt you are going to find many who have sat down and read the sheer amount of pubmed that a lot of MFP users have, but there seem to be plenty who at least know enough to keep things from getting out of hand.
However, the current trend isn't exactly a pretty one, and in another ten to fifteen years, "most" might be completely appropriate.0 -
I actually think the issue is less not knowing basic stuff -- people know that eating some chicken, vegetables, and maybe some potato is a better meal (on average) than a consistent diet of mac & cheese or chicken mcnuggets or donuts for dinner (not that I think the latter is common, and I think all of these can be occasionally included in a good overall diet). The reason people don't eat well probably isn't due to lack of knowledge.
The knowledge goes more to why do people fall for all kinds of weird woo claims. And I think that's about not being able to evaluate evidence, and the bias toward believing what you want to believe, as well as the endless hope that there's some easy quick solution.3 -
I think some of what's being taught in schools is also part of the problem, at least from one of the posters I've seen in a local elementary school. It doesn't seem to me as though kids in school are being taught what really constitutes a proper diet.
I do agree with the idea that this is better suited to be taught at home, but as it's been mentioned that's assuming the parents know and practice eating right. It's one thing to know the general basics, but if parents aren't doing it themselves, chances are the kids won't pick it up either.0 -
They have no teachers who have a vast knowledge teaching them. Most will just go by the governments food pyramid and tell the kids that it's important they follow it. Even in most elementary schools now, PE is taught by the homeroom teacher, and they have NO EXPERIENCE in physical fitness at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Who gets to set the curriculum? Are you going to teach a paleo diet? Primal? Vegetarian? Vegan? Carnivorous? Ketogenic? LCHF? IIFYM? Moderation? None of those will be right for everyone or even stay right for the individual throughout their life.
I agree with whoever brought up the age it is taught as an issue too. Kids have very little control over their diets beyond what mom and dad offer or what is in the cafeteria or school vending machines.
It would be like teaching a musical instrument but never letting them handle the instrument.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think nutrition is better taught at home, but given the widespread nutritional misconceptions today, it might be a good idea to teach it in school. But I fear school boards would be in for a world of controversy from parents that think they know better than whatever nutrition curriculum was introduced. It would be almost as bad as if they chose to teach religion.
This is true.
I also do think they teach the basics already, and people just don't retain it. I mean, OP says: "With some of the things you see people ask around here," which is, admittedly, a thought I've had too, as some of the questions and claims and sources identified as supposedly reliable amaze me, but people are taught math and history and US government (well, in the US) and research and such, and yet I'd bet if you asked the same people about some of those topics they'd not demonstrate perfect retention. The population as a whole certainly does not score all that well on such things.
Sigh, and add this to my extremely long list of things that are making me depressed about the world today!
Yep you'd be right. Study is a few years old, but probably still relevant, 2/3 of the US adult population can't name one Supreme Court Justice.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/08/20/most-americans-cant-name-a-u-s-supreme-court-justice-survey-says/
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They have no teachers who have a vast knowledge teaching them. Most will just go by the governments food pyramid and tell the kids that it's important they follow it. Even in most elementary schools now, PE is taught by the homeroom teacher, and they have NO EXPERIENCE in physical fitness at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The problem with PE in the schools is we have gotten too politically correct to make the kids actually put in some effort. Growing up, we ran laps and if we walked we had to run extra. Now, you go by a school and the kids are strolling around the track, if not stopping to talk or look at their phones.
If a teacher actually makes them put in some effort, kids complain to the parents who are in the principal's office demand the "mean" PE teacher be fired.
Yes it does happen.5 -
One diet or the other isn't as important IMHO as teaching about " portion control" in fact, many ppl here have said they were shocked by true and accurate measuring and weighing of the actual amounts of food.0
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Considering the amount of absolutely ludicrous and health and weight loss claims I'm constantly hearing people come out with and believing ...yes I think it should be compulsory. It's clear when people believe drinking green tea will make them skinny that their education has failed them....that or their intelligence.3
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I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO0 -
dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Admittedly, I lived the takeout way for three years without gaining back more than a few of the pounds I had lost. A calculator and the internet for nutrition information is all that was needed for me to keep my calories in check. Both are on my phone. It was still atrociously expensive, by comparison. However, it was worth the convenience to me, as I was working 14-16 hours per day for most of that time.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Where does it say that they are bad at maths? I for one ever said that. Merely pointed out that maths and economics can be a perfect part of a cooking class as it involves calculus and buying from an economic chain.0 -
dutchandkiwi wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Where does it say that they are bad at maths? I for one ever said that. Merely pointed out that maths and economics can be a perfect part of a cooking class as it involves calculus and buying from an economic chain.
The " The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper" part would indicate that they are terrible at math.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Where does it say that they are bad at maths? I for one ever said that. Merely pointed out that maths and economics can be a perfect part of a cooking class as it involves calculus and buying from an economic chain.
The " The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper" part would indicate that they are terrible at math.
No it would not indicate that. I could easily indicate a number of things or even all. Being bad at maths is not something that I implied, nor stated That conclusion is totally on your shoulders and I reject it as something that is implied or can be concluded from my post. No smiley will change that0 -
dutchandkiwi wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Where does it say that they are bad at maths? I for one ever said that. Merely pointed out that maths and economics can be a perfect part of a cooking class as it involves calculus and buying from an economic chain.
None of the calculus classes I had would be needed to shop for or cook food. Do you mean calculations, like basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division?1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »dutchandkiwi wrote: »I think I was taught the basics in elementary school but yes I was mostly taught about the food from my mum (who beleives every new snippet of food 'news' out there) and from what we had at home. That is what stuck and that is what has been hardest to unlearn. That combined with growing up in a family where sports was not really a focus. Kids learn from the examples set really.
However I do think that cooking skills should be part of the curriculum These days people often think that it takes lots of time and vegetables and healthy foods are expensive. The think that some form of take away/eating is faster and cheaper. A cookign lesson can be part of maths, science, nutrintion/health and economics. Perfect IMO
So, not only are they bad at cooking, but basic math as well, eh?
Where does it say that they are bad at maths? I for one ever said that. Merely pointed out that maths and economics can be a perfect part of a cooking class as it involves calculus and buying from an economic chain.
None of the calculus classes I had would be needed to shop for or cook food. Do you mean calculations, like basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division?
Where I live, that would be grade 3 ot 4 math. Tops. Cooking and shopping might be a fun way to teach early elementary math (or later remedial math) but that's about it.0 -
I had a nutrition class in high school. We figured out that pizza is pretty much a perfect food according to the old food pyramid which was the foundation for the class. The problem with teaching nutrition is that it's a conflict of interest with the cafeteria catering companies and Big Ag's control of school lunch nutrition guidelines which make pizza a vegetable. Guess what...money wins.1
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I had a nutrition class in high school. We figured out that pizza is pretty much a perfect food according to the old food pyramid which was the foundation for the class. The problem with teaching nutrition is that it's a conflict of interest with the cafeteria catering companies and Big Ag's control of school lunch nutrition guidelines which make pizza a vegetable. Guess what...money wins.
There is so much wrong with this post.
1. Pizza is not considered "a vegetable" by the school lunch guidelines. More accurately, given the right ingredients it can meet a single usda serving of vegetable for the guidelines. This is the same for casseroles, sandwiches, tacos and other mixed - ingredient foods.
2. That multiple food groups are involved in no way negates the nutritive content of the parts. Originally that was not the case, schools, not "big ag" lobbied for the pizza exemption because in the original draft pizza was explicitly banned as unhealthy in all situations.
3. "Big Ag", by which I can only assume you mean the entire US agricultural and food industries, had precisely no input into the nutrition guidelines. Neither did the schools. The process was purely political.
4. Every school is now subjected to an exhaustive government oversight of their food, and has been since 2010.6 -
Don't I remember that it was actually ketchup that was a vegetable?6
This discussion has been closed.
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