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Basic human physiology & nutrition in schools
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I say this to point out that a lot of the foolish questions you get here... it's not the fault of the schools or the parents. It's generally the media that promotes the latest fad or pseudoscience.
At a certain point, though, you either choose to educate yourself or you choose to be ignorant. I am having a hard time not thinking that some of the ignorance that we see -- and I am also referring to topics well beyond nutrition, as I referenced before and Packerjohn elaborated on -- is willful, chosen. I don't understand this; it frustrates me. So much of what people repeat here not only is wrong, but just makes no sense if you think about it at all. I don't understand why people believe such things -- I think they must want to on some level.
Not to link to specifics but theres a great example that @lemurcat12 is reminding me of, with her post. There's a couple of threads going about a waist trainer and its effectiveness for flattening a tummy while eating at a surplus. Although information to the contrary has been posted, some are still happy to continue even though the idea makes absolutely no sense, common or otherwise. Talk about willful.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I say this to point out that a lot of the foolish questions you get here... it's not the fault of the schools or the parents. It's generally the media that promotes the latest fad or pseudoscience.
At a certain point, though, you either choose to educate yourself or you choose to be ignorant. I am having a hard time not thinking that some of the ignorance that we see -- and I am also referring to topics well beyond nutrition, as I referenced before and Packerjohn elaborated on -- is willful, chosen. I don't understand this; it frustrates me. So much of what people repeat here not only is wrong, but just makes no sense if you think about it at all. I don't understand why people believe such things -- I think they must want to on some level.
I think it's very hard when the media tells you something (like this pill will melt your weight off, you won't have to diet or exercise/this device melts off belly fat - no diet changes needed) and you want it to be that easy. It's very hard to learn that the media can - and does - lie to you, just to get your money, even if you really ought to know better. Mostly some folks just want a quick fix that doesn't require any real life style change. They want it so badly that they close their ears to the facts and... in that case, yeah, willful ignorance. However, no amount of education is going to change that type of thinking. You can give them all the information you want and they won't change their minds.
At that point, it's not about changing how stuff is taught in schools. It's about trying to get the media to stop all the lies they feed desperate people. Good luck with that.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I say this to point out that a lot of the foolish questions you get here... it's not the fault of the schools or the parents. It's generally the media that promotes the latest fad or pseudoscience.
At a certain point, though, you either choose to educate yourself or you choose to be ignorant. I am having a hard time not thinking that some of the ignorance that we see -- and I am also referring to topics well beyond nutrition, as I referenced before and Packerjohn elaborated on -- is willful, chosen. I don't understand this; it frustrates me. So much of what people repeat here not only is wrong, but just makes no sense if you think about it at all. I don't understand why people believe such things -- I think they must want to on some level.
I think it's very hard when the media tells you something (like this pill will melt your weight off, you won't have to diet or exercise/this device melts off belly fat - no diet changes needed) and you want it to be that easy. It's very hard to learn that the media can - and does - lie to you, just to get your money, even if you really ought to know better. Mostly some folks just want a quick fix that doesn't require any real life style change. They want it so badly that they close their ears to the facts and... in that case, yeah, willful ignorance. However, no amount of education is going to change that type of thinking. You can give them all the information you want and they won't change their minds.
At that point, it's not about changing how stuff is taught in schools. It's about trying to get the media to stop all the lies they feed desperate people. Good luck with that.
Pretty much. It's only hard because people want any excuse to keep up their excessive eating habits. "My brain says I need this dammit! I's hangry!" Hell, just getting people to accept that their overeating has completely wrecked their hormone signaling would be a step in the right direction.1 -
If CICO is taught and hammered into kids heads all through school then maybe the waist trainer and the like industry will eventually die. If there was some kind of national campaign about CICO is king that could help get rid of the schemes. Maybe even market it as the "secret" to weight issues is CICO to appeal to people.
I don't have any animosity for people who want the easy way out. Eating at a deficit sucks. For some people their maintenance allowance sucks too. If there were an easy way out that worked, I would be laughing my way to my healthy weight self.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I say this to point out that a lot of the foolish questions you get here... it's not the fault of the schools or the parents. It's generally the media that promotes the latest fad or pseudoscience.
At a certain point, though, you either choose to educate yourself or you choose to be ignorant. I am having a hard time not thinking that some of the ignorance that we see -- and I am also referring to topics well beyond nutrition, as I referenced before and Packerjohn elaborated on -- is willful, chosen. I don't understand this; it frustrates me. So much of what people repeat here not only is wrong, but just makes no sense if you think about it at all. I don't understand why people believe such things -- I think they must want to on some level.
I think it's very hard when the media tells you something (like this pill will melt your weight off, you won't have to diet or exercise/this device melts off belly fat - no diet changes needed) and you want it to be that easy.
I don't think it's hard at all, but it is the want. People seek out media (usually obviously disreputable media) that tells them what they want to believe.It's very hard to learn that the media can - and does - lie to you, just to get your money, even if you really ought to know better.
I think everyone knows to be cynical about the media these days. It's just it's become -- at least for many -- not actually about vetting sources but believing what you want and dismissing as biased or disreputable sources that say what you don't want to believe. Sometimes even citing a source for one thing while dismissing everything else it says.Mostly some folks just want a quick fix that doesn't require any real life style change. They want it so badly that they close their ears to the facts and... in that case, yeah, willful ignorance. However, no amount of education is going to change that type of thinking. You can give them all the information you want and they won't change their minds.
Agree.At that point, it's not about changing how stuff is taught in schools. It's about trying to get the media to stop all the lies they feed desperate people. Good luck with that.
IMO, it's not the fault of the media, although I wish it were more competent on average and didn't spread lies in the worst examples. We all know better, by now.0 -
Confirmation bias can be an obese person's worst enemy. Unfortunately, it's all over the place now. Between the people trying to sell them *kitten*, and the fat acceptance movement, is it any wonder that people have trouble with accepting facts?
I am reminded of a quote I heard a long time ago: "Reality exists, regardless of your perception of it."6 -
Sorry but I don't need the government "educating" (if you can even call it that) my future kids about food. Hell, I would prefer that they stick to the education basics (math, science, writing etc.) and leave the rest to their mother and myself.0
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Nutrition is not a developed science where as many as 50% are in agreement on anything. As noted by others the financial conflicts of interest are high as well. When I earned my OD degree in 1986 we had pharmacology for the last three years I think but never remember one class on Nutrition. Type 2 diabetes is a leading cause of blindness that for the most part can be prevented from developing or reversed by diet.
The sad fact is Nutrition is not on the radar of the healthcare industry but Rx Meds are. Prevention medicine does not pay all that well.
@AmandaOmega I totally agree with you.1 -
Sorry but I don't need the government "educating" (if you can even call it that) my future kids about food. Hell, I would prefer that they stick to the education basics (math, science, writing etc.) and leave the rest to their mother and myself.
Just curious. Why do you choose to "outsource" math, scuence, etc education but want mom and dad to teach nutrition?3 -
Fat Activists would throw a fit if public schools tried to teach portion control and nutrition. Look at all the heat Michelle Obama gets over her trying to make school lunches more healthy.
Screw fat activists and their stupid agendas. For a group that proudly bellows "*kitten* your beauty standards!" they seem to be very concerned with the idea that they're called beautiful.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I'm 44, and in my day we were theoretically taught about nutrition in health class every year, and it was all very vague and did nothing. From what my son (24) tells me it was pretty much the same when he was in school. I got the 4 food groups, he got the Food Pyramid. Neither is helpful at all, IMO.
It would be cool if kids learned about the science of nutrition, macronutrients and micronutrients, calories, how food fuels the body, etc. Not endorsing any specific type of diet. Just present the facts as they are known. Of course, that's a pipe dream. You only have to look at the utter crap they serve in school cafeterias to know that.
I also completely disagree with PackerJohn about physical education. My PE teachers all through the second part of grade school and junior high were hardcore, and you were going to run the mile unless you were dying (I did it for a whole semester while I had walking pneumonia, because they said that pain in my back would be relieved by running--and I'd been in track for a while by then so was conditioned to listen to Coach). We also had to do the stupid president challenge thing and I still can't do the flexed arm hang. It didn't make us all athletes; in fact I had to quit track because I basically ran myself into a hospital bed and six months of convalescence, and that was the end of my involvement with school athletics. I'd like to see them teach some purposeful exercise and train kids to be strong and explain to them why and encourage them, instead of just calling you a baby whale if you couldn't do sixty situps in a minute or run an 8-minute mile (not that I'm bitter).
Sorry for your experience, but did you have a doctor's note saying you were sick? The PE teacher can't always tell if a kid is sick or just whining/dogging it.
I didn't *know* I was sick, I just knew I hurt and couldn't take a deep breath, which is why I asked the coach about it. When a kid tells you it hurts to breathe, the answer is "go to the doctor," not "run another mile." A coach should know this. Sure, kids whine. Sure, sometimes they try to get out of *kitten*. That doesn't make it legit to dismiss any kind of pain or problem a kid has.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »They have no teachers who have a vast knowledge teaching them. Most will just go by the governments food pyramid and tell the kids that it's important they follow it. Even in most elementary schools now, PE is taught by the homeroom teacher, and they have NO EXPERIENCE in physical fitness at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The problem with PE in the schools is we have gotten too politically correct to make the kids actually put in some effort. Growing up, we ran laps and if we walked we had to run extra. Now, you go by a school and the kids are strolling around the track, if not stopping to talk or look at their phones.
If a teacher actually makes them put in some effort, kids complain to the parents who are in the principal's office demand the "mean" PE teacher be fired.
Yes it does happen.
What is wrong with walking around a track? Walking is good exercise.3 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »Don't I remember that it was actually ketchup that was a vegetable?
It was tomato sauce. And it is a vegetable, obviously. The controversy was over whether the amount of tomato sauce on a slice of pizza should be considered a serving of vegetables. The USDA said no, but Congress voted yes. If you don't like this nonsense you should find out how your representative voted and let them know your feelings.0 -
So this had taken a slightly different turn than I'd expected as I realize I wasn't that clear. By nutrition I was thinking more along the lines of calories per gram, how each macro is broken down, what nutrients does the body need...etc. Certainly not suggesting that a particular diet or methodology be taught. Teach what starches, sugars and fiber is. What amino acids are, the various types of fat. The digestive system and how food is processed by the body. Things with as little bias as possible.5
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »KetoneKaren wrote: »Don't I remember that it was actually ketchup that was a vegetable?
It was tomato sauce. And it is a vegetable, obviously. The controversy was over whether the amount of tomato sauce on a slice of pizza should be considered a serving of vegetables. The USDA said no, but Congress voted yes. If you don't like this nonsense you should find out how your representative voted and let them know your feelings.
Two different but similar controversies, I suspect. The ketchup thing was in the Reagan administration, and the tomato sauce (pizza) thing was in 2011. Problem with seeing how people voted is that it was an omnibus bill and a lot of people who weren't necessarily for the interference with USDA recommendations thought the bill (and related funding) was needed.
Here's a short article on the 2011 thing: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lunch-idUSTRE7AH000201111183 -
So this had taken a slightly different turn than I'd expected as I realize I wasn't that clear. By nutrition I was thinking more along the lines of calories per gram, how each macro is broken down, what nutrients does the body need...etc. Certainly not suggesting that a particular diet or methodology be taught. Teach what starches, sugars and fiber is. What amino acids are, the various types of fat. The digestive system and how food is processed by the body. Things with as little bias as possible.
Now this, I can absolutely get behind, assuming it remained based in science, and not whatever *kitten* agenda is being sloughed off upon the population on any given day. However, given that the same government pays into public schools, as pays into various ag subsidies, good luck with that one.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »They have no teachers who have a vast knowledge teaching them. Most will just go by the governments food pyramid and tell the kids that it's important they follow it. Even in most elementary schools now, PE is taught by the homeroom teacher, and they have NO EXPERIENCE in physical fitness at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The problem with PE in the schools is we have gotten too politically correct to make the kids actually put in some effort. Growing up, we ran laps and if we walked we had to run extra. Now, you go by a school and the kids are strolling around the track, if not stopping to talk or look at their phones.
If a teacher actually makes them put in some effort, kids complain to the parents who are in the principal's office demand the "mean" PE teacher be fired.
Yes it does happen.
What is wrong with walking around a track? Walking is good exercise.
Nothing wrong with walking as done at a brisk pace for exercise. Much too often you see kids slowly strolling, stopping looking at phones, etc.
So in their case not real effective.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »They have no teachers who have a vast knowledge teaching them. Most will just go by the governments food pyramid and tell the kids that it's important they follow it. Even in most elementary schools now, PE is taught by the homeroom teacher, and they have NO EXPERIENCE in physical fitness at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The problem with PE in the schools is we have gotten too politically correct to make the kids actually put in some effort. Growing up, we ran laps and if we walked we had to run extra. Now, you go by a school and the kids are strolling around the track, if not stopping to talk or look at their phones.
If a teacher actually makes them put in some effort, kids complain to the parents who are in the principal's office demand the "mean" PE teacher be fired.
Yes it does happen.
Ha this brings back memories of primary school. Our pe teacher used to make us jog round and round the oval, which i hated! He chose a kid i disliked from our group to run behind me and push me in the back every time i slowed down.0 -
In order to teach it in school we first have to establish guidelines about what constitutes healthy eating. We would also have to include people with medical conditions and allergies and be able to offer alternatives. If one is allergic to peanuts but eats a plant based diet, what is a good protein for them to eat? If one is diabetic, what are the best foods for them to eat to avoid sugar spikes? These are both issues my daughters' classmates have dealt with and those would need to be addressed. Side note: the questions about what to eat are rhetorical. *I* know this information but if we are teaching it en masse answers need to be readily available.
Also, there is another side to this (if its been addressed already I apologize in advance) and that it financial. I don't know one, single, person who doesn't honestly know that baked chicken and veggies are healthier than mac n cheese or that oatmeal or a veggie omelet is healthier than biscuits and gravy. What I think people really need to be educated on is WAYS they can implement healthier eating when they are on a strict budget, and also when they are super stretched for time. Not to mention storage of foods. Its easier to store boxes of mac n cheese for a month than it is fresh produce so if one gets food once a month, they buy the mac n cheese. My state has a population that is largely unemployed and on some sort of assistance. They KNOW what is healthy. Deep down, we all know. How to do it is the real issue, in my opinion. Teaching it in school is good, teaching it to the parents would be better.0 -
I took basic nutrition and human antimony in both middle and high school. They usually teach the nutrition based on the USDA and other government factors. Back in my day we learned about the food pyramid.0
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