Age an issue or an excuse?
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LaceyBirds wrote: »
So my 60 year-old self must eat 276 calories less a day than my 20 year-old self did to maintain the same weight.*
If you have the same amount of lean body mass at 20 and 60, you need the same amount of calories. The chart you list is based on the statistical average that we all lose lean body mass as we age, not that our metabolism slows down.9 -
thequeena47 wrote: »Age is just a fact, we age. However, i do think it contributes to how easily we bounce back from things, which i believe is also just a fact. Most of us can confirm that at 20 you were likely able to drink and party 'til dawn and still get to class or work the next day... but now in your 40'sor 50's, you need a little longer to recover from that sort of thing. For me, same thing applies with exercising - i can still walk 10 km, but i won't feel like i want to do it again tomorrow, or garden all day moving soil and rocks but the aches and strains seem to hang about a bit longer now at 49 than they did at 29. And that is natural.... at 29 i was up all day working, up much of the nights with one or the other of my babies, no time to be seriously ill or otherwise out of commission and we are made to be more resilient when we are younger as we are biologically wired to have offspring that need watching, chasing and protecting. Not so as we near and surpass middle age.... So,if i say i am tired or sore the day after a big workout, it isn't an excuse not to work out again, but it is just a fact that i don't recover as easily as i used to, things get a little worn with time, a little crooked with overuse, and need a little extra care to function as they used to. does my age keep me from losing weight? Not all by itself... but the fact that i can only handle one or two glasses of wine now, when several double cocktails wouldn't slow me much 25 years ago is evidence that my whole system is moving slower - i take longer to metabolize alcohol out of my system, i don't burn as many calories as quickly as i used to, i take longer to recover from intense efforts.... Aging is just aging. We age up and things change in our bodies, from infant through to the end of our days, and we don't just keep getting better and stronger all the way through. If that were the case, we would all be super fit at 90!
Well said!!!
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I regularly ride with guys who are in their early seventies, and they are no joke on the bike. I hope to be in half the shape they are when I'm that age.2
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My first day of considering dieting was my 60th birthday. I'd heard all my later life that weight loss was impossible without surgery or pills, or, at least, a diet club with a doctor. It seemed hopeless, but on that birthday, I wanted weight loss more than before.
By my 61st birthday, I'd lost 50 pounds, and by my 62nd, 50 more. After that, 23 more pounds just fell off. I now weigh 113-115, depending upon the day. I'm now 67. So much for "it can't be done."
I am going to try to put a photo below, but if it is large on the page, I'm erasing it.
Try again . . . .
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My grandmother is 94 years old...she looks like she's about 70 and goes to the gym and strength trains every day, followed by water aerobics. Her major weight fluctuations are when her prednisone prescription gets altered for her arthritis. She has had times in her life where she has not been super healthy, but I think she's living proof that you can change your life at any time...age is just a mentality. You have to put the work in, regardless of how many times you've been around the sun. It may be easier at certain ages, but it's never impossible.
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In 2010, at age 53, I weighed 235lbs w/ BF of 35%. I felt OLD, and was starting to look that way. Finally did something about it in 2011, losing 45lbs. BF dropped to just under 20%. It was like discovering the fountain of youth.
I became and remain active in endurance sports with no end in sight. My inspiration is the gentlemen I saw lined up at the swim start in a recent race, where competitors are marked by sex and age. This guy's calf was marked "M88", and let me tell you, he was fairly fast.
For anyone interested in learning a bit about performance factors as we age, Joel Friel's "Fast after 50" is a good read.3 -
The original question is kinda vague, an excuse or issue for what?
Age is an issue in regards to metabolism and recovery time. That's just a fact of life. Even the fittest seniors are not in the same physical shape as the fittest 25 year old. We all age. Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Now, using your age to not be active and watch what you eat or to say you can't lose weight because of your age, that's an excuse. Or a choice. I know plenty of retired folks that are pretty happy not worrying about it and just enjoying things.5 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »The original question is kinda vague, an excuse or issue for what?
Age is an issue in regards to metabolism and recovery time. That's just a fact of life. Even the fittest seniors are not in the same physical shape as the fittest 25 year old. We all age. Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Now, using your age to not be active and watch what you eat or to say you can't lose weight because of your age, that's an excuse. Or a choice. I know plenty of retired folks that are pretty happy not worrying about it and just enjoying things.
Agree with all this but..BillMcKay1 wrote: »Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Is because TDEE calculators work by making some basic assumptions, for example that someone of a specific height and sex is comprised of a certain ratio of lean mass and fat*. Or that, a given time exercising will expend a certain amount of energy.
One of the assumptions that these calculators make is that your metabolic rate will drop as you age. That is a logical assumption, since this is what happens for the bulk of a population. But it is not aging that is causing the drop in metabolic rate but the increasingly sedentary lifestyle that most of the population take on as they age.
In short there is a correlation with decreased metabolic rate and age but aging is not the cause of that decrease.
*obviously TDEE cals that take %BF into account don't fall for this assumption.6 -
Age is definitely a factor but there are ways to work around it. It does require more patience, and more acceptance of loose skin IMHO.
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Turned 40 last month and I'm in the best shape of my life!
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StealthHealth wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »The original question is kinda vague, an excuse or issue for what?
Age is an issue in regards to metabolism and recovery time. That's just a fact of life. Even the fittest seniors are not in the same physical shape as the fittest 25 year old. We all age. Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Now, using your age to not be active and watch what you eat or to say you can't lose weight because of your age, that's an excuse. Or a choice. I know plenty of retired folks that are pretty happy not worrying about it and just enjoying things.
Agree with all this but..BillMcKay1 wrote: »Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Is because TDEE calculators work by making some basic assumptions, for example that someone of a specific height and sex is comprised of a certain ratio of lean mass and fat*. Or that, a given time exercising will expend a certain amount of energy.
One of the assumptions that these calculators make is that your metabolic rate will drop as you age. That is a logical assumption, since this is what happens for the bulk of a population. But it is not aging that is causing the drop in metabolic rate but the increasingly sedentary lifestyle that most of the population take on as they age.
In short there is a correlation with decreased metabolic rate and age but aging is not the cause of that decrease.
*obviously TDEE cals that take %BF into account don't fall for this assumption.
Fair enough. Using Sailrabbit I can see that the TDEE formulations that use BF% stay the same if only the age changes but activity level and BF% stay static. Those formulations also give a higher TDEE than ones that are BMI based and use age, sex,height and weight.1 -
SkinnyGirlCarrie wrote: »Turned 40 last month and I'm in the best shape of my life!
Turned 45 last month and I'm also in the best shape of my life! Cheers!2 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »StealthHealth wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »The original question is kinda vague, an excuse or issue for what?
Age is an issue in regards to metabolism and recovery time. That's just a fact of life. Even the fittest seniors are not in the same physical shape as the fittest 25 year old. We all age. Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Now, using your age to not be active and watch what you eat or to say you can't lose weight because of your age, that's an excuse. Or a choice. I know plenty of retired folks that are pretty happy not worrying about it and just enjoying things.
Agree with all this but..BillMcKay1 wrote: »Any TDEE calculator out there will show you either need to be more active or eat less calories as you age to maintain weight.
Is because TDEE calculators work by making some basic assumptions, for example that someone of a specific height and sex is comprised of a certain ratio of lean mass and fat*. Or that, a given time exercising will expend a certain amount of energy.
One of the assumptions that these calculators make is that your metabolic rate will drop as you age. That is a logical assumption, since this is what happens for the bulk of a population. But it is not aging that is causing the drop in metabolic rate but the increasingly sedentary lifestyle that most of the population take on as they age.
In short there is a correlation with decreased metabolic rate and age but aging is not the cause of that decrease.
*obviously TDEE cals that take %BF into account don't fall for this assumption.
Fair enough. Using Sailrabbit I can see that the TDEE formulations that use BF% stay the same if only the age changes but activity level and BF% stay static. Those formulations also give a higher TDEE than ones that are BMI based and use age, sex,height and weight.
Interesting: @orlcam is a MFP user and wrote the Silrabbit calculator.1 -
If you have the same amount of lean body mass at 20 and 60, you need the same amount of calories. The chart you list is based on the statistical average that we all lose lean body mass as we age, not that our metabolism slows down.StealthHealth wrote: »One of the assumptions that these calculators make is that your metabolic rate will drop as you age. That is a logical assumption, since this is what happens for the bulk of a population. But it is not aging that is causing the drop in metabolic rate but the increasingly sedentary lifestyle that most of the population take on as they age.
In short there is a correlation with decreased metabolic rate and age but aging is not the cause of that decrease.
Thanks for that information.
The premise of the original post, though, is that some people have trouble losing weight or say they can't based on age and a slowing metabolism. I think the majority of the people making these posts don't know or care that their weight issues are not really related to their metabolism but to losing lean muscle mass - they just know that as they're getting older, they are having trouble maintaining or losing weight, and thus attribute part of it to this issue. The TDEE calculators, as mentioned by Nuke, are based on the general population, a great deal of whom aren't lifting weights all their lives to maintain the muscle mass they had at 20. So, in my view, it is aging that is the problem, and each decade you need to compensate for those changes brought on by aging, whether it's exercising to maintain that muscle, or eating less calories to maintain your weight.
It's this theory that it's an excuse that bothers me. Sure, some people aren't ready or willing to actually lose weight, and will give all kinds of reasons why they can't do it. But I see so many people here that believe they can't lose weight due to age, and it isn't an excuse, it's a belief because that is what they have heard all their lives, especially for women who are told they will gain weight and lose their sex drives after menopause - it's made to sound inevitable. It's only when they start to gain more knowledge or find their experiences aren't the same as they've been told that those beliefs are challenged and changed.. I personally believed that my age and post-menopausal status was going to be a hindrance in losing weight until I started reading the forums here, and that belief was fostered by years of being told so all of my life, mainly by the media. I just think that using the word "excuse" places blame and shame where it doesn't necessarily belong.
I've had too much coffee, so I have no idea if that all makes sense - walking away now.
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POOR excuse.
I'm 60 and wear the same size clothes as my 25 YO old son (who is same height and weight) and has done some local fitness modeling. He does fill the clothes out a bit better, but still the same sizes.
You just have to do the work in the gym/roads/wherever and don't forget the table push-aways and fork put-downs.5 -
I'm 66 and have been lifting weights for 2 years now and lost about 65 lbs altogether since 2013. I also run and swim. I think older people tend to be less active generally and that, combined with muscle loss means, we can't eat as much as we used to, but as long as you're aware of how much you can eat and also add a bit of exercise in it's totally just as easy or hard for us as it is for anyone else.
I think we may also need even more protein as we age, especially if we're using our muscles more than the average Jack or Jill, to prevent some of that muscle loss.
Here's to being a fit old lady!4 -
Lack of self confidence disguised as an excuse. I will be 52 in September and the self talk throughout my 40s kept me fat. I lacked the self confidence to say f-it! I am donning a pair of damn spandex and heading to the gym. Damn it all. And here I am. over 40lbs off since the end of February. I tell any young person I meet along this journey to do it now. Don't have regrets like that. Time goes by so swiftly....1
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I am unquestionably in better shape than at any time in my life, now, at 48, but for me that does mean heavier than before, not technically underweight like I usually was (I like being skinny, but it's probably not the healthiest state to maintain).
I feel like I can't eat as much, but think this is very likely a lifestyle thing as it's hard to skip suppers now with all the kids at home, need to set a good example, and it's hard to skip supper and run in the morning, and I am pretty sure that being able to skip supper when not hungry was a big part of keeping my weight low (it's easy for me to go to sleep without eating anything, but very difficult to skip lunch)
My mom gained some as she got older older, but again, this just got her to the middle of a healthy range.
But I suppose the bottom line is that I can still trust my body to stay in a good weight and shape if I eat moderately and work out daily, and that's been the case for my life. Not through the menopause yet though, so I do not know if that will mess me up any. But....
When I was a teen, everybody said "you won't be able to eat like that when you are 20 without getting fat"
When I was in my 20s it was "wait until you are thirty, you won't be able to eat like that without getting fat"
When I was in my 30s it was "wait until you are forty, you won't be able to eat like that without getting fat"
and now it's "wait till menopause"
So maybe it will be a non event like those others were, who knows?
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@chunky_pinup You're grandma looks FANTASTIC
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Nah I'm 31 and fitter now than I was in my 20s and hopefully continue getting fitter1
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Um... 30 and 40 is not "age." Those of you of in this group are just spring chickens.
After menopause I started to see my weight creep up with no appreciable change in diet or exercise. I'm here to lose the pounds I gained. Obviously I need to refine my diet and my exercise regime. And also to accept that time and gravity do change the body -- which is especially true for women, and unfortunately more so for women who are well-endowed in the chest.
So...yes, age is a factor. But it's not an excuse.4 -
I don't think age itself is a factor but rather all those pesky health issues that go with it. For over a year, I had kept off 50 pounds, regularly weighing 116-119 pounds. However, at age 44, I have perimenopause to deal with now. Once I started gaining a little weight, I tweaked my diet and now maintain enough of a deficit to supposedly LOSE a pound a week. However, have I lost any? Not really ... this is with continuing cardio 5x a week with 2 of those times being HIIT and also 2-3x a week with weight lifting. I am doing everything in MY control and it is like I am swimming in an undertow at times. I am not giving up but it is so frustrating to know that you are doing everything you can but your body is rebelling against you. I also have auto-immune issues (UC) and my body likes to retain body inflammation. However, until menopausal symptoms starting coming on, I was able to deal with that body inflammation through diet and exercise.0
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I'm utterly shocked at how many experts in human metabolism we have here. Especially because the consensus opinion is in stark contrast to all known biomedical research on the processes and biochemical effects of aging, cumulative damage to subcellular and organ systems, DNA damage and repair, apoptotic cascading and the like.
I will post a more comprehensive literature review later when I get a chance to sit down at my computer and pull key articles, but it seems the height of ignorance and/or arrogance to conclude aging has no effect on our ability to stay physically fit or affect body composition and caloric needs over time.6 -
I'm utterly shocked at how many experts in human metabolism we have here. Especially because the consensus opinion is in stark contrast to all known biomedical research on the processes and biochemical effects of aging, cumulative damage to subcellular and organ systems, DNA damage and repair, apoptotic cascading and the like.
I will post a more comprehensive literature review later when I get a chance to sit down at my computer and pull key articles, but it seems the height of ignorance and/or arrogance to conclude aging has no effect on our ability to stay physically fit or affect body composition and caloric needs over time.
Everyone knows that getting older involves physically getting older - the responses here are about whether it's kept people from being able to lose weight or maintain a healthy weight. The consensus is no, it does not.
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I'm utterly shocked at how many experts in human metabolism we have here. Especially because the consensus opinion is in stark contrast to all known biomedical research on the processes and biochemical effects of aging, cumulative damage to subcellular and organ systems, DNA damage and repair, apoptotic cascading and the like.
I will post a more comprehensive literature review later when I get a chance to sit down at my computer and pull key articles, but it seems the height of ignorance and/or arrogance to conclude aging has no effect on our ability to stay physically fit or affect body composition and caloric needs over time.
I think you are way overthinking this. I think we all know that as we age our body changes. I don't see where anyone here is at the "height of ignorance and/or arrogance".2 -
It would be very informative if everyone posting would list their age.
It's really, really easy in your 30s or even early to mid 40s to think aging isn't an issue.
I think for many people it's wishful thinking (if I say it's not an issue then it won't be for me when I get there!).
I stick by my earlier assertion that age can be both an issue and an excuse. None of us ages the same, even if we're in top condition in our younger years. We don't all have the same genetics. Some will hit the jackpot as far as aging well and others won't. For those who won't it can be a legitimate excuse. I know quite a few extremely fit, health conscious people who have developed unpreventable age-related health issues. To tell those people that age is just an excuse would be absurd. OTOH I know middle aged/older people who are perfectly capable of improving themselves who do use their age as an excuse. And I've known people who in middle age (or later) find themselves finally with the time and resources to devote to themselves instead of others, are genetically lucky enough to not be hindered by age-related health issues and get in the best shape of their lives. There is no blanket "yes" or "no" answer here.4 -
I'm utterly shocked at how many experts in human metabolism we have here. Especially because the consensus opinion is in stark contrast to all known biomedical research on the processes and biochemical effects of aging, cumulative damage to subcellular and organ systems, DNA damage and repair, apoptotic cascading and the like.
I will post a more comprehensive literature review later when I get a chance to sit down at my computer and pull key articles, but it seems the height of ignorance and/or arrogance to conclude aging has no effect on our ability to stay physically fit or affect body composition and caloric needs over time.
Drama much? Who was saying anything like that?3 -
I'm utterly shocked at how many experts in human metabolism we have here. Especially because the consensus opinion is in stark contrast to all known biomedical research on the processes and biochemical effects of aging, cumulative damage to subcellular and organ systems, DNA damage and repair, apoptotic cascading and the like.
I will post a more comprehensive literature review later when I get a chance to sit down at my computer and pull key articles, but it seems the height of ignorance and/or arrogance to conclude aging has no effect on our ability to stay physically fit or affect body composition and caloric needs over time.
Yeah... remember the context in which this is being discussed. I don't think anyone here is implying that what's possible at 45 is also possible at the same intensity at 75. We are all old enough to "get it". We all know aging impacts the body.
This is about making excuses due to age or not in terms of getting your *kitten* up and moving and not using it as an excuse.
My Dad died an early age due to letting himself go physically and then eventually mentally. Did he have to? Heck no.. Was it his choice to let time go by and let the pounds pile up so much that he eventually backed himself into a corner where it made most tasks in life impossible? Yes it was... Eventually he used age and then his size as his excuse.
Again - like others have said - no one here is debating the aging process. We are all going to age. The question becomes if you want to attempt to try "aging well" or not. It's about accepting personal responsibility.6 -
chunky_pinup wrote: »My grandmother is 94 years old...she looks like she's about 70 and goes to the gym and strength trains every day, followed by water aerobics. Her major weight fluctuations are when her prednisone prescription gets altered for her arthritis. She has had times in her life where she has not been super healthy, but I think she's living proof that you can change your life at any time...age is just a mentality. You have to put the work in, regardless of how many times you've been around the sun. It may be easier at certain ages, but it's never impossible.
I'm sorry, that woman is in her 90s? She really does look amazing! I have nothing productive to add to this discussion but I had to comment.4 -
chunky_pinup wrote: »My grandmother is 94 years old...she looks like she's about 70 and goes to the gym and strength trains every day, followed by water aerobics. Her major weight fluctuations are when her prednisone prescription gets altered for her arthritis. She has had times in her life where she has not been super healthy, but I think she's living proof that you can change your life at any time...age is just a mentality. You have to put the work in, regardless of how many times you've been around the sun. It may be easier at certain ages, but it's never impossible.
I'm sorry, that woman is in her 90s? She really does look amazing! I have nothing productive to add to this discussion but I had to comment.
94 in August!5
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