Eating Clean - No Such Thing

Acg67

You need to do some homework before you spout nonsense not everyone wants chemicals dont gripe at others for eating how they want and do your own thing get off your high horse.

Spouting nonsense? Pot meet kettle, unless you can provide a list of all these chemical free foods people are eating

flip over the package and read. Any of that sound like food?

Way to avoid the question, would you eat something with these ingredients?

"Alpha-Linolenic-Acid, Asparagine, D-Categin, Isoqurctrin, Hyperoside, Ferulic-Acid, Farnesene, Neoxathin, Phosphatidyl-Choline, Reynoutrin, Sinapic-Acid, Caffeic-Acid, Chlorogenic-Acid, P-Hydroxy-Benzoic-Acid, P-Coumaric-Acid, Avicularin, Lutein, Quercitin, Rutin, Ursolic-Acid, Protocatechuic-Acid, Silver, Tryptophan, Threonine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lycine, Methionine, Cystine, Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Valine, Argenine, Histidine, Alanine, Aspartic Acid, Glutamic Acid, Glycine, Proline, and Serine. "

lol you mean an apple last I checked they don't screw with those too often also that's not on the back of an apple now is it

**I buy non gmo and organic apples

Still awaits your list of chemical free foods

your confusing chemicals with compounds there is actually a diffrence

"You need to do some homework before you spout nonsense not everyone wants chemicals"

As i said, pot meet kettle

AJ_G

I am done talking to you hun all you do is twist and twist anything anyone says until you get what you want as an answer I wish you the best

Well I did ask you which ingredients are bad that you try to avoid, and you told me vitamin B2, B6, and B12, as well as folic acid, vitamin A, and citric acid.

That didn't require much twisting.

A clean eater would avoid all those ingredients except for perhaps the dried fruits. Including the added vitamins. It is the "added" part that would be avoided.

See I don't understand that? Why is it inferior because it has been added? It has the identical chemical makeup, and your body treats it 100% the same, so why is it inferior, or not healthy because it is added?

sjsosu

At the end of the day, your body needs certain amounts of a variety of different nutrients to maintain healthy skin, hair, internal organ and bodily functions, bones, and muscle. These nutrients are demonstrated to aid immune response and prevent medical conditions (vitamin C - and scurvy for example).

If you can get all the nutrients you need to reach your overall health goals, while staying within your caloric budget for you desired weight objectives then you will be successful.

To state that over the long term the nutritional value of the food you eat is not a factor in your overall health (not just weight loss) is ridiculous.

bcattoes

I am done talking to you hun all you do is twist and twist anything anyone says until you get what you want as an answer I wish you the best

Well I did ask you which ingredients are bad that you try to avoid, and you told me vitamin B2, B6, and B12, as well as folic acid, vitamin A, and citric acid.

That didn't require much twisting.

A clean eater would avoid all those ingredients except for perhaps the dried fruits. Including the added vitamins. It is the "added" part that would be avoided.

See I don't understand that? Why is it inferior because it has been added? It has the identical chemical makeup, and your body treats it 100% the same, so why is it inferior, or not healthy because it is added?

Not all added vitamins have the same makeup or are treated the same by the body. But simply put they are not as they are found in nature and therefore should not be part of a clean diet. Natural = clean.

jonnythan

I am done talking to you hun all you do is twist and twist anything anyone says until you get what you want as an answer I wish you the best

Well I did ask you which ingredients are bad that you try to avoid, and you told me vitamin B2, B6, and B12, as well as folic acid, vitamin A, and citric acid.

That didn't require much twisting.

A clean eater would avoid all those ingredients except for perhaps the dried fruits. Including the added vitamins. It is the "added" part that would be avoided.

You spend an awful lot of time trying to speak for "clean eaters" while also telling us there's no real definition of the term anyway. Very confusing.

AJ_G

At the end of the day, your body needs certain amounts of a variety of different nutrients to maintain healthy skin, hair, internal organ and bodily functions, bones, and muscle. These nutrients are demonstrated to aid immune response and prevent medical conditions (vitamin C - and scurvy for example).

If you can get all the nutrients you need to reach your overall health goals, while staying within your caloric budget for you desired weight objectives then you will be successful.

To state that over the long term the nutritional value of the food you eat is not a factor in your overall health (not just weight loss) is ridiculous.

Most IIFYMers take one or two multivitamins a day, and also usually eat at least 2 servings of fruit and vegetables each a day. Just because someone does not strictly follow clean eating, doesn't mean you should make the leap to say that they only eat fast food and never any fruits or vegetables...

bcattoes

You need to do some homework before you spout nonsense not everyone wants chemicals dont gripe at others for eating how they want and do your own thing get off your high horse.

Spouting nonsense? Pot meet kettle, unless you can provide a list of all these chemical free foods people are eating

flip over the package and read. Any of that sound like food?

Way to avoid the question, would you eat something with these ingredients?

"Alpha-Linolenic-Acid, Asparagine, D-Categin, Isoqurctrin, Hyperoside, Ferulic-Acid, Farnesene, Neoxathin, Phosphatidyl-Choline, Reynoutrin, Sinapic-Acid, Caffeic-Acid, Chlorogenic-Acid, P-Hydroxy-Benzoic-Acid, P-Coumaric-Acid, Avicularin, Lutein, Quercitin, Rutin, Ursolic-Acid, Protocatechuic-Acid, Silver, Tryptophan, Threonine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lycine, Methionine, Cystine, Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Valine, Argenine, Histidine, Alanine, Aspartic Acid, Glutamic Acid, Glycine, Proline, and Serine. "

lol you mean an apple last I checked they don't screw with those too often also that's not on the back of an apple now is it

**I buy non gmo and organic apples

Still awaits your list of chemical free foods

your confusing chemicals with compounds there is actually a diffrence

"You need to do some homework before you spout nonsense not everyone wants chemicals"

As i said, pot meet kettle

My guess is she is just not expressing herself well. If she understand clean eating then she meant man-made chemicals rather than the natural chemical make-up of foods. Food additives. These things are not clean.

My guess is that you guys already knew that.

PepperWorm

Johnnythan, get the hell out of here with all your common sense and logic! Gat dayum!

bcattoes

I am done talking to you hun all you do is twist and twist anything anyone says until you get what you want as an answer I wish you the best

Well I did ask you which ingredients are bad that you try to avoid, and you told me vitamin B2, B6, and B12, as well as folic acid, vitamin A, and citric acid.

That didn't require much twisting.

A clean eater would avoid all those ingredients except for perhaps the dried fruits. Including the added vitamins. It is the "added" part that would be avoided.

You spend an awful lot of time trying to speak for "clean eaters" while also telling us there's no real definition of the term anyway. Very confusing.

It's a concept or a philosophy. It has a loose but understandable definition. I understand it. There are gray areas though. People on MFP misuse it a lot.

geebusuk

My guess is she is just not expressing herself well. If she understand clean eating then she meant man-made chemicals rather than the natural chemical make-up of foods. Food additives. These things are not clean.

So if 'man' makes a chemical that's in EVERY way identical to one found in 'nature', would it still be 'dirty' and not to be used?

Achrya

At the end of the day, your body needs certain amounts of a variety of different nutrients to maintain healthy skin, hair, internal organ and bodily functions, bones, and muscle. These nutrients are demonstrated to aid immune response and prevent medical conditions (vitamin C - and scurvy for example).

If you can get all the nutrients you need to reach your overall health goals, while staying within your caloric budget for you desired weight objectives then you will be successful.

To state that over the long term the nutritional value of the food you eat is not a factor in your overall health (not just weight loss) is ridiculous.

That's why I take a multi every morning. I also get a fair amount of veggies (Why, I'm throwing corn into a pot of chili tonight, I put spinach in my curry, and I'm throwing some thinly sliced eggplant in my lasagna.) and I eat fruit as well.

magerum

At the end of the day, your body needs certain amounts of a variety of different nutrients to maintain healthy skin, hair, internal organ and bodily functions, bones, and muscle. These nutrients are demonstrated to aid immune response and prevent medical conditions (vitamin C - and scurvy for example).

If you can get all the nutrients you need to reach your overall health goals, while staying within your caloric budget for you desired weight objectives then you will be successful.

To state that over the long term the nutritional value of the food you eat is not a factor in your overall health (not just weight loss) is ridiculous.

To quote a well regarded "expert" in the industry, Eric Helms:

"Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! "

FitnessBeverlyHills

All I know is, after reading these myriad threads on the clean-eating wars, that MFP is not a place where you will be supported in doing what works for you. If I am eating in a way that is different from you, I suppose I should keep that to myself before I am attacked for being ignorant and told that I should do it a different way. Better I close my diary before someone discovers that I lean towards clean eating or that I eat too dirty. Why is this a "debate"?

^^^ This.

(And as far as I can tell, it would be a mistake to call this a 'debate.' It seems like bunch of very, very determined people talking at or passed one another with the belief that if they repeat something just one more time they'll 'win.')

What it's really about is helping people succeed. I see four things that disturb me:

1) People that are new and under the impression that they need to "eat clean" in order to achieve their goals. These people often decide to completely abstain from many of their favorite foods and therefore often become 2s.

2) People that have gained back weight that they have previously lost because they made unsustainable changes in their diet. They eventually gave in to their desires and indulged in a banned food, feel they have failed themselves, and rapidly fall back into their old eating patterns and put the weight right back on.

3) People who have had some success eating clean but still have a lot of weight to lose and are excited about their changes and progress. These people are often the most vocal about the benefits of clean eating and the quickest to deny the successes others have had without eating clean.

4) Relatively elite people who are often professionals of some kind in the industry who stand to make money by selling their methods and results. They often use fear tactics to scare people into "clean."

I know its a crazy concept, but sometimes people actually care about what they decide to put into their bodies. A lot of people don't want to survive on just protein bars and fast food everyday, or sustain themselves on a protein bar just so they have enough calories to eat some Wendy's. I'm sure I'll be attacked for this statement but weight loss in not always everyones only goal. You can be skinny and still be "unhealthy".

I realize you can meet your macros on fast food, but is there any emphasis at all on getting a proper amount of nutrients and vitamins, besides the ones you get from your multi vitamin in the morning or protein shake?

Please read:This is more directed to the poster above after reading his food dairy.

This is about giving people the freedom to eat the foods they love and feel good about it.

As opposed to your approach which is to make them so scared of this toxic food that they feel like failures for eating something not "clean."

Thats not really "My Approach" at all. I don't tell anyone to NEVER eat fast food, but I would advice against not eating it everyday because its not the most nutrients dense food and I think aside from obtaining your macro's, its also important to get nutrients and vitamins through your food. I personally think there is a lot to be said for getting nutrients and vitamins from actual food sources than just taking a multi vitamin as an excuse to not put any fruits and vegetables in your diet. If anything my approach is a well balanced diet. I consume food that is not so nutrients dense probably 90% of the time, but I also make sure I eat enough fruits, vegetables, fish, meats, legumes, nuts ect.. to get my vitamins and nutrients. Not to mention if I ate that much fast food I would be sick to my stomach and be sluggish all day.

Now the entire Mcdonalds thing is just its own issue. This is why I refer to Mcdonalds burgers as not real food, I'll stick to some In and Out burger

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/31/10282876-mcdonalds-drops-use-of-gooey-ammonia-based-pink-slime-in-hamburger-meat?lite

Major typo that should have been "I eat foods that are not so nutrient dense 10% of the time" not 90%

ok continue with the debate

for the record the majority of the ingredients in a pop-tart I would rather not consume all the time, but if I have one its not going to kill be or side track my health. If you know about the ingredients list on a package, which I'm sure you do, you know they list ingredients from highest to lowest.

A food item thats primarily made of Enriched Flour, Corn syrup, and high fructose corn syrup is probably not the most nutrient dense food. Again all the vitamins listed are all enriched into the food because if they didn't go through an enrichment process there would actually be NO nutrients in them. I would prefer to consume food sources that factories don't need to fortify with vitamins. I don;t think anyone is denying that its "food" just not the most nutrient dense food. Some people eat the foam inside their couches and some on this board might argue that its food, but is it really the best option?

This is what drives me nuts about the IIFYM crowd, not all but some, have a hard time admitting that some foods are more nutrient dense than others. Just because you can eat glue and call it food by your definition or some Pink Slime Patty, doesn't mean its exactly the best choice. No one expects perfection or for you to eat perfect 100% of the time, but why argue with someone because they prefer to eat fruits, veggies, and foods closer to their natural state? Just because they call it "clean"? Its just a term.

bcattoes

My guess is she is just not expressing herself well. If she understand clean eating then she meant man-made chemicals rather than the natural chemical make-up of foods. Food additives. These things are not clean.

So if 'man' makes a chemical that's in EVERY way identical to one found in 'nature', would it still be 'dirty' and not to be used?

I've actually never heard the term 'dirty food' outside MFP. But you are correct. Man-made is not natural, so man-made is not clean. Everything from the food replicator on Star Trek - not clean.

jonnythan

All I know is, after reading these myriad threads on the clean-eating wars, that MFP is not a place where you will be supported in doing what works for you. If I am eating in a way that is different from you, I suppose I should keep that to myself before I am attacked for being ignorant and told that I should do it a different way. Better I close my diary before someone discovers that I lean towards clean eating or that I eat too dirty. Why is this a "debate"?

^^^ This.

(And as far as I can tell, it would be a mistake to call this a 'debate.' It seems like bunch of very, very determined people talking at or passed one another with the belief that if they repeat something just one more time they'll 'win.')

What it's really about is helping people succeed. I see four things that disturb me:

1) People that are new and under the impression that they need to "eat clean" in order to achieve their goals. These people often decide to completely abstain from many of their favorite foods and therefore often become 2s.

2) People that have gained back weight that they have previously lost because they made unsustainable changes in their diet. They eventually gave in to their desires and indulged in a banned food, feel they have failed themselves, and rapidly fall back into their old eating patterns and put the weight right back on.

3) People who have had some success eating clean but still have a lot of weight to lose and are excited about their changes and progress. These people are often the most vocal about the benefits of clean eating and the quickest to deny the successes others have had without eating clean.

4) Relatively elite people who are often professionals of some kind in the industry who stand to make money by selling their methods and results. They often use fear tactics to scare people into "clean."

I know its a crazy concept, but sometimes people actually care about what they decide to put into their bodies. A lot of people don't want to survive on just protein bars and fast food everyday, or sustain themselves on a protein bar just so they have enough calories to eat some Wendy's. I'm sure I'll be attacked for this statement but weight loss in not always everyones only goal. You can be skinny and still be "unhealthy".

I realize you can meet your macros on fast food, but is there any emphasis at all on getting a proper amount of nutrients and vitamins, besides the ones you get from your multi vitamin in the morning or protein shake?

Please read:This is more directed to the poster above after reading his food dairy.

This is about giving people the freedom to eat the foods they love and feel good about it.

As opposed to your approach which is to make them so scared of this toxic food that they feel like failures for eating something not "clean."

Thats not really "My Approach" at all. I don't tell anyone to NEVER eat fast food, but I would advice against not eating it everyday because its not the most nutrients dense food and I think aside from obtaining your macro's, its also important to get nutrients and vitamins through your food. I personally think there is a lot to be said for getting nutrients and vitamins from actual food sources than just taking a multi vitamin as an excuse to not put any fruits and vegetables in your diet. If anything my approach is a well balanced diet. I consume food that is not so nutrients dense probably 90% of the time, but I also make sure I eat enough fruits, vegetables, fish, meats, legumes, nuts ect.. to get my vitamins and nutrients. Not to mention if I ate that much fast food I would be sick to my stomach and be sluggish all day.

Now the entire Mcdonalds thing is just its own issue. This is why I refer to Mcdonalds burgers as not real food, I'll stick to some In and Out burger

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/31/10282876-mcdonalds-drops-use-of-gooey-ammonia-based-pink-slime-in-hamburger-meat?lite

Major typo that should have been "I eat foods that are not so nutrient dense 10% of the time" not 90%

ok continue with the debate

for the record the majority of the ingredients in a pop-tart I would rather not consume all the time, but if I have one its not going to kill be or side track my health. If you know about the ingredients list on a package, which I'm sure you do, you know they list ingredients from highest to lowest.

A food item thats primarily made of Enriched Flour, Corn syrup, and high fructose corn syrup is probably not the most nutrient dense food. Again all the vitamins listed are all enriched into the food because if they didn't go through an enrichment process there would actually be NO nutrients in them. I would prefer to consume food sources that factories don't need to fortify with vitamins. I don;t think anyone is denying that its "food" just not the most nutrient dense food. Some people eat the foam inside their couches and some on this board might argue that its food, but is it really the best option?

This is what drives me nuts about the IIFYM crowd, not all but some, have a hard time admitting that some foods are more nutrient dense than others. Just because you can eat glue and call it food by your definition or some Pink Slime Patty, doesn't mean its exactly the best choice. No one expects perfection or for you to eat perfect 100% of the time, but why argue with someone because they prefer to eat fruits, veggies, and foods closer to their natural state? Just because they call it "clean"? Its just a term.

Some foods are more nutrient-dense than others.

I don't have a problem saying that. It's true. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say it wasn't.

We recommend eating nutrient-dense foods. When I give recommendations, I specifically recommend people get several servings of veggies and fruits every day.

No problem there.

Where we differ is that I think it's totally fine to fill the rest of your calories with any food you like that gets you to your daily nutritional goals. Those goals can, and should, include things like fiber, protein, fat, and vitamin and mineral goals.

Also, no one has any problem with people that prefer to eat foods "closer to their natural state." The problem is when people try to convince others that this way is necessary for weight loss/fitness/health.

Timshel_

Timshel_

Timshel_

Timshel_

jonnythan

This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. I have no problem with people who want to eat this way, but to come on the site and tell people that they need to eat this way is just bad.