If calories is a calorie-what's the issue with Sugar then? how to reduce intake? HELP!
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Raptor2763 wrote: »A calorie is NOT a calorie - THAT'S the issue. Calories from proteins, fat, and sugar are used in a set sequence.
You are confusing "calorie" with "food."
A calorie is a unit of energy and as such a calorie IS a calorie. There is no such thing as a "carb calorie" or a "sugar calorie" or a "protein calorie."
Foods are different and one difference is that they contain different ratios of the various macronutrients. Other differences include the amount of micronutrients they contain and, if they have carbohydrate, the type of carbohydrate (sugar vs. starch vs. fiber). Yet another difference, related to the micros, is if they have fat, the type of fat. Another is the overall volume of the food and how much water it contains. And, of course, there's taste. I could go on.
I hope this illustrates that you are wrong to equate "a calorie is a calorie" with "a food is a food." Again, calorie does not mean food.To be clear, sugar is fairly common. I think what you're referring to is refined sugar - as in the kind found in candy, cake frosting, or even the cake itself. Calories from refined sugar - also called "empty calories - have ZERO nutritional value (hence the term "empty").
Sugar in fruit and refined sugars aren't meaningfully different. The sugar, if taken out of the fruit, does not have more virtues than table sugar. Now, of course, sugar on its own does not contain micronutrients. It's sole benefit -- and this was a big benefit once upon a time and is probably why we crave sweet -- is that it provides calories.
Thus, for us today, when getting enough calories is typically not a worry, the question should be what the food provides along with those calories and if the calories are excessive for our overall diet. Many or most people will decide (assuming they like fruit) that the calorie per micro ratio for fruit is pretty good, and that fruit is filling for the calories or some such, and thus that fruit is a good choice, even though it has a good bit of sugar and that sugar provides calories. Other foods with sugar may have more or less benefits. Smoked salmon is typically made with a bit of sugar, but it provides little calories and the salmon provides protein and healthy fats and is delicious. IMO, excluding it because of some silly idea about added sugar being inherently bad would be a messed up way of thinking. Some people enjoy a bit of sugar in oatmeal -- same analysis and conclusion, from my POV. But what about something like ice cream? Well, it has more calories for the limited (not non-existent) micros it provides, but of course many of those calories (about half, as in most sweet dessert-y things) are from fat. For me, focusing on the sugar is the wrong analysis. I wouldn't eat a huge number of calories from ice cream, but can I fit some in my day? Sure. Is the sugar in it different from the sugar in melon? (which fits more easily in my day, but it's not like a reasonable amount of ice cream is so hard to fit in). No, it is not.2. Shopping the periphery of the store physically avoids the problem - the sugar-laden products are on the shelves in the middle.
Weird! In my store the soda and bakery are both on the periphery, along with some of the cookie dough. There's a ton of stuff (like frozen veg, dried pasta, oatmeal, dried beans) in the middle that has no added sugar. Fresh fruits and veg are in their own special section. Maybe people should not be given such simplistic advice and learn to use their brains instead? You think?5 -
Sugary foods have the lowest satiety scores, meaning you are more likely to want to overeat when you consume any significant amount of them. To me this is the biggest reason that sugary foods have to stay in the category of "treat", separate from most of the other foods I eat. Fruits are exceptional both because of the fibre they add (which increases satiety) and the nutrients.
If your diet has lots of protein (which arguably has the best satiety scores), it should be easier to incorporate sugary treats in moderation without overeating. If you have a large calorie consumption (as many of the guys here do) that 10-20% discretionary portion of your daily intake accommodates treats more easily.
It's a rare day that I achieve 30% of my calories from protein (I aim for 20% and find that tough enough), so I need to make sure most of my carbs are complex.
Personally I went through a time where I couldn't tolerate being even a little hungry. I was eating way too many simple carbs (including lots of sugar) at that time. I suspect I was on a blood glucose level roller coaster ride.
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stevencloser wrote: »Pizza is not counted as a vegetable, the tomato sauce is if anything.
There's no DV because DV is based on how much an average body needs.
Sugar is not addictive. At all.
tomatoes are a fruit...lol.. but i got the point0 -
Raptor2763 wrote: »A calorie is NOT a calorie - THAT'S the issue. Calories from proteins, fat, and sugar are used in a set sequence. To be clear, sugar is fairly common. I think what you're referring to is refined sugar - as in the kind found in candy, cake frosting, or even the cake itself. Calories from refined sugar - also called "empty calories - have ZERO nutritional value (hence the term "empty").
Now, if the best solution is to avoid the problem, how to deal with refined sugar?
1. You're gonna have to become expert at reading labels. HINT: anything ending in "ose" such as "sucrose", "dextrose", or "glucose" should trigger a red flag. Also, be on the lookout for sugar-type substitutes, like stevia and truvia.
2. Shopping the periphery of the store physically avoids the problem - the sugar-laden products are on the shelves in the middle.
BTW - same general idea holds for salt. You'll find all the salt you need in the food you eat. No need for more.
Can you please elaborate on the set sequence the body uses to process macronutrients?
Please don't elaborate I can't take it!!0 -
good sugar would be the one that u got or took while eating veggies and fruit, bad one would be from sodas and stuff0
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Michael190lbs wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Pizza is not counted as a vegetable, the tomato sauce is if anything.
There's no DV because DV is based on how much an average body needs.
Sugar is not addictive. At all.
tomatoes are a fruit...lol.. but i got the point
Not legally in the US for culinary purposes. Botanic and culinary classifications of fruit vs. veg differ.1 -
I think I've finally figured this out. Please excuse the rather passe or sexist analogies.
A good girl hangs out with nice, respectful, well-dressed boys who get good grades. A bad girl lurks around with the smokers who swear and drink and skip class. Both girls may be the same in terms of their own actual behavior, but they are judged by their companions.
Good sugars and bad sugars are the same, but one hangs out with fiber and lots of micros (or just looks all respectable, since those in a banana don't actually come with much fiber). The other (the bad one) hangs out with fat and calories.
It's all about judging by appearance and association!
Hmm. Or maybe it's an anti immigration thing: good sugars stay where they started out. Bad sugars go somewhere else.15 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I think I've finally figured this out. Please excuse the rather passe or sexist analogies.
A good girl hangs out with nice, respectful, well-dressed boys who get good grades. A bad girl lurks around with the smokers who swear and drink and skip class. Both girls may be the same in terms of their own actual behavior, but they are judged by their companions.
Good sugars and bad sugars are the same, but one hangs out with fiber and lots of micros (or just looks all respectable, since those in a banana don't actually come with much fiber). The other (the bad one) hangs out with fat and calories.
It's all about judging by appearance and association!
I love this analogy!1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I think I've finally figured this out. Please excuse the rather passe or sexist analogies.
A good girl hangs out with nice, respectful, well-dressed boys who get good grades. A bad girl lurks around with the smokers who swear and drink and skip class. Both girls may be the same in terms of their own actual behavior, but they are judged by their companions.
Good sugars and bad sugars are the same, but one hangs out with fiber and lots of micros (or just looks all respectable, since those in a banana don't actually come with much fiber). The other (the bad one) hangs out with fat and calories.
It's all about judging by appearance and association!
Hmm. Or maybe it's an anti immigration thing: good sugars stay where they started out. Bad sugars go somewhere else.
3 -
Raptor2763 wrote: »A calorie is NOT a calorie - THAT'S the issue. Calories from proteins, fat, and sugar are used in a set sequence. To be clear, sugar is fairly common. I think what you're referring to is refined sugar - as in the kind found in candy, cake frosting, or even the cake itself. Calories from refined sugar - also called "empty calories - have ZERO nutritional value (hence the term "empty").
Now, if the best solution is to avoid the problem, how to deal with refined sugar?
1. You're gonna have to become expert at reading labels. HINT: anything ending in "ose" such as "sucrose", "dextrose", or "glucose" should trigger a red flag. Also, be on the lookout for sugar-type substitutes, like stevia and truvia.
2. Shopping the periphery of the store physically avoids the problem - the sugar-laden products are on the shelves in the middle.
BTW - same general idea holds for salt. You'll find all the salt you need in the food you eat. No need for more.
Can you please explain how a unit of measurement isn't a unit of measurement?4 -
Michael190lbs wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Michael190lbs wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Pizza is not counted as a vegetable, the tomato sauce is if anything.
There's no DV because DV is based on how much an average body needs.
Sugar is not addictive. At all.
tomatoes are a fruit...lol.. but i got the point
Not legally in the US for culinary purposes. Botanic and culinary classifications of fruit vs. veg differ.
Legally who gives a crap about a legal definition of a fruit really? Next thing you know the law will allow men to be called woman.... The Law is a joke anymore so poor argument but funny.
Well sense the tomato sauce was being talked about in a culinary sense and what the school classified it as, I'd say the argument is spot on.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I think I've finally figured this out. Please excuse the rather passe or sexist analogies.
A good girl hangs out with nice, respectful, well-dressed boys who get good grades. A bad girl lurks around with the smokers who swear and drink and skip class. Both girls may be the same in terms of their own actual behavior, but they are judged by their companions.
Good sugars and bad sugars are the same, but one hangs out with fiber and lots of micros (or just looks all respectable, since those in a banana don't actually come with much fiber). The other (the bad one) hangs out with fat and calories.
It's all about judging by appearance and association!
Hmm. Or maybe it's an anti immigration thing: good sugars stay where they started out. Bad sugars go somewhere else.
Dammit, it's high school all over again!1 -
Think of sugar as a very efficient container to move calories from one place to another. Combine that with what some people call its addictive qualities and you will have it. I think you will benefit more by eating less calorie dense foods that have nutritional value.1
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Sugar is sugar and a calorie is a calorie. Too much of ANYTHING is bad. Moderation is key.1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
I think I've finally figured this out. Please excuse the rather passe or sexist analogies.
A good girl hangs out with nice, respectful, well-dressed boys who get good grades. A bad girl lurks around with the smokers who swear and drink and skip class. Both girls may be the same in terms of their own actual behavior, but they are judged by their companions.
Good sugars and bad sugars are the same, but one hangs out with fiber and lots of micros (or just looks all respectable, since those in a banana don't actually come with much fiber). The other (the bad one) hangs out with fat and calories.
It's all about judging by appearance and association!
Hmm. Or maybe it's an anti immigration thing: good sugars stay where they started out. Bad sugars go somewhere else.
This may be the greatest post I've ever seen here.0 -
Raptor2763 wrote: »A calorie is NOT a calorie - THAT'S the issue. Calories from proteins, fat, and sugar are used in a set sequence. To be clear, sugar is fairly common. I think what you're referring to is refined sugar - as in the kind found in candy, cake frosting, or even the cake itself. Calories from refined sugar - also called "empty calories - have ZERO nutritional value (hence the term "empty").
Now, if the best solution is to avoid the problem, how to deal with refined sugar?
1. You're gonna have to become expert at reading labels. HINT: anything ending in "ose" such as "sucrose", "dextrose", or "glucose" should trigger a red flag. Also, be on the lookout for sugar-type substitutes, like stevia and truvia.
2. Shopping the periphery of the store physically avoids the problem - the sugar-laden products are on the shelves in the middle.
BTW - same general idea holds for salt. You'll find all the salt you need in the food you eat. No need for more.
Just pointing out that the body runs on glucose. It's so important that if you don't eat enough of it, your body will produce it through glucenogenesis.
Also would like to point out that cakes are mainly fat and many cookies have less sugar than many fruits. They are just void of fiber.
OP, there are a variety of sugars and largely they are processed the same, with the exception of fructose. Either way, one should look to get adequate nutrition and not consume large amounts of added sugar.2 -
Ha ha ha! This is good entertainment! All I know is that when I'm on a sugar binge, nothing else substitutes, and when I eat a lot of sugar (and I mean a lot), I get fat.
However, when I'm out running/hiking/skiing/whatever for 4+ hours and start to fade, sugar brings me right back. "Quick energy" as my mom used to say. There's something that helps muscles recover faster with insulin, but I am definitely not qualified to say anything about it as I'm only a beginner in this chemistry lesson, too!0
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