All calories may not be equal
Replies
-
BreezeDoveal wrote: »Fine, I'll explain it to you since you can't follow.
DNA is like a recipe
5 free range omega-3 eggs
3 cups of gluten free non-GMO flour
1 cup of pure fair trade can sugar
1 pan
1 oven
Heat @400 for 2 hours
Yields 1 cake, 40 oz
Now, if I can never change that sequence as you put it, I can never make more than 1 cake. By your logic, people can't get fat because no matter how many ingredients (food) you have, you can't make more than one 40 oz cake (weight). Now, clearly, if you give someone more food or different food, you get different outputs, so clearly, the recipe can change, it isn't that rigid set of things above. It is your silly version where a person can't gain weight with more food because the recipe (DNA) is fixed exactly, and can't use more ingredients.
DNA is not a recipe. It's an enormous recipe book including instructions for building the whole kitchen. If you insist on using that type of analogy.3 -
And you know this for sure? I've dealt with over 500 type II diabetics in my profession and the majority of them didn't need to cut carbs of existence in their diet to lose weight. REDUCE yes. And not down to 50g or less either. Many were well over 100g a day.gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
Tell that to the many of type II clients I've had that didn't have to cut out "bad" foods and because of just significant weight loss, they were able to do the same.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Can someone do it on Ludwig's program? Sure. Do they NEED to? NOPE.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
protein has a thermic effect of up to 30%. Other than that, all calories are created equal.0
-
My parents aren't vegan and neither are many of my family and friends. Do we have overweight people in the family? Yes. Do we have fit lean people in the family? Yep. The difference between the overweight ones and the fit lean ones...............................is how MUCH we consume up to/over our TDEE. This is the same stuff you can't provide evidence to refute against. It still boils down to calories in/out.gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
BTW it's family party time for 4 days. Just thought I'd post what we eat during this time.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
5 -
I see lumpia!!0
-
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »...in otherwords, if you find a "calorie" that is not equivalent to another "calorie" its because you measured wrong, not because somehow calories don't equal calories.
Its literally like someone saying hey this 7 inch thing is longer than this other 7 inch thing. First thing that should come into your mind is "I guess one of them was measured incorrectly" not "sounds scientific to me"
Once again, stating that if you eat 2,000 calories of donuts everyday for several years, you would weigh exactly the same if you ate a healthy well-balanced diet (which includes donuts now and then) of 2,000 calories for several years. Please.
SAYS THE GUY INSISTING PEOPLE TRYING TO LOSE WEIGHT EAT HEAVILY PROCESSED SINGLE SERVING FOODS.
I'm so confused at this point what you're even trying to say.
7 -
Lol, both wrong. I could have told you psulemon wasn't a vegan. Many of his past posts reflect it. I dedicate this to him. I'm making some for party this weekend.BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv185/jlweemspics/IMG_3122.jpg
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
-
queenliz99 wrote: »I see lumpia!!
Lumpia must be different in different regions. The Lumpia I get from our neighbors isn't in that picture, or I'm blind. Both of which are completely possible.0 -
Calories in and calories out is a limited tool to describe how foods are affecting your body. Understanding the endocrine system and how foods impact it at different times of the day is the next level.0
-
Ill start by saying that i have never read the book but agree with the concept your putting forth. While everyone else is right to lose weight you need to be in a defficiency. I do however beleive that what you consume contributes to a overall better body composition. Its pretty obvious to me and i assume most people that say you eat 1500 cals a day all in cheeseburgers you will not be as successful as if your eating natural nourishing foods. I do agree that you can lose weight by eating at close to maintenance and still gain muscle which a majority of people say is not possible. Im always trying to do what your suggesting but that is the same problem with most people not being able to control their urges. Lose weight fast eating all clean but eventually something pulls me off the wagon.0
-
This content has been removed.
-
queenliz99 wrote: »I see lumpia!!
Lumpia must be different in different regions. The Lumpia I get from our neighbors isn't in that picture, or I'm blind. Both of which are completely possible.
In the rectangular tray, on the right, above the noodle dish?0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »...in otherwords, if you find a "calorie" that is not equivalent to another "calorie" its because you measured wrong, not because somehow calories don't equal calories.
Its literally like someone saying hey this 7 inch thing is longer than this other 7 inch thing. First thing that should come into your mind is "I guess one of them was measured incorrectly" not "sounds scientific to me"
Once again, stating that if you eat 2,000 calories of donuts everyday for several years, you would weigh exactly the same if you ate a healthy well-balanced diet (which includes donuts now and then) of 2,000 calories for several years. Please.
In this example is one person eating only 2000 of donuts? If so, I'd bet weight would not be the same.
0 -
hamilton8560 wrote: »Calories in and calories out is a limited tool to describe how foods are affecting your body. Understanding the endocrine system and how foods impact it at different times of the day is the next level.
Understanding that that kind of stuff is neat to know but negligible and completely useless on a practical level is the true next level.5 -
.0
-
janejellyroll wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
Never understood the vegan thing. I do understand not wanting to kill animals for food and have no problem with that philosophy.
But if you won't eat an egg from your neighbor's happy and healthy backyard chickens just a few times a year, it becomes a religion. And please vegans, don't give me a cholesterol lecture.
My decision to avoid eggs from backyard chickens has nothing to do with religion -- it's a consistent position on animal exploitation. Backyard chickens actually form a significant part of the rescue chicken population and many of them are killed when the people who own them are no longer able to care for them. Even if one does make a commitment to care for chickens for their entire life (that is, not killing them when their production rate declines), there are no sources for chicks of which I am aware that don't participate in practices to which I am opposed (chick culling, using chickens for meat, and selling chicks to people who prioritize profit over the welfare of the chickens) so I wouldn't want to be a part of that process by eating eggs from backyard chickens.
Even happy and healthy backyard chickens were treated as product at some point in their life -- although the person who is presently caring for them may have their welfare as a primary concern, I avoid eggs as part of an objection to the overall chick/chicken industry.
If you don't understand why someone does something, sometimes asking will help you to find out. It may be easier to dismiss something as a religion before seeking to understand it, but it doesn't lead to greater clarity. This is my choice of what I feel comfortable supporting with my own actions, I realize other people may feel differently.
My neighbor treats her chickens like I treat my dog. And look at her chickens as chicken rescues, just like my dog was a rescue.
There is no moral reason not to eat eggs from neighbor's chickens who are treated like family pets. None.3 -
I'll be in Yosemite this weekend! Just look for the 8 bedroom cabin with a bunch of shoes at the front door.annaskiski wrote: »
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
It is. Some are fresh, some are small (Shanghai style) and some are like regular size eggrolls. And they are filled differently too.queenliz99 wrote: »I see lumpia!!
Lumpia must be different in different regions. The Lumpia I get from our neighbors isn't in that picture, or I'm blind. Both of which are completely possible.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Majoring in the minors. It's been said 1,000,000 times in many threads on MFP.hamilton8560 wrote: »Calories in and calories out is a limited tool to describe how foods are affecting your body. Understanding the endocrine system and how foods impact it at different times of the day is the next level.
To lose weight you eat less calories than you burn. To gain weight you eat more than you burn. To maintain weight you eat the same amount you burn.
If you're an athlete or sports competitor, then you go to the next level. Other than that, stick to the basics.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
Never understood the vegan thing. I do understand not wanting to kill animals for food and have no problem with that philosophy.
But if you won't eat an egg from your neighbor's happy and healthy backyard chickens just a few times a year, it becomes a religion. And please vegans, don't give me a cholesterol lecture.
My decision to avoid eggs from backyard chickens has nothing to do with religion -- it's a consistent position on animal exploitation. Backyard chickens actually form a significant part of the rescue chicken population and many of them are killed when the people who own them are no longer able to care for them. Even if one does make a commitment to care for chickens for their entire life (that is, not killing them when their production rate declines), there are no sources for chicks of which I am aware that don't participate in practices to which I am opposed (chick culling, using chickens for meat, and selling chicks to people who prioritize profit over the welfare of the chickens) so I wouldn't want to be a part of that process by eating eggs from backyard chickens.
Even happy and healthy backyard chickens were treated as product at some point in their life -- although the person who is presently caring for them may have their welfare as a primary concern, I avoid eggs as part of an objection to the overall chick/chicken industry.
If you don't understand why someone does something, sometimes asking will help you to find out. It may be easier to dismiss something as a religion before seeking to understand it, but it doesn't lead to greater clarity. This is my choice of what I feel comfortable supporting with my own actions, I realize other people may feel differently.
My neighbor treats her chickens like I treat my dog. And look at her chickens as chicken rescues, just like my dog was a rescue.
There is no moral reason not to eat eggs from neighbor's chickens who are treated like family pets. None.
Did she adopt them from a chicken rescue?0 -
Yes. That one has shrimp in it.queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »I see lumpia!!
Lumpia must be different in different regions. The Lumpia I get from our neighbors isn't in that picture, or I'm blind. Both of which are completely possible.
In the rectangular tray, on the right, above the noodle dish?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
YES! Tongue tied now.gonetothedogs19 wrote: ».
So how about the answer to your 2000 donut and 2000 natural food question with Stevie Starr? 23 years of eating junk and not overweight or obese. Teeth could use some work though.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
hamilton8560 wrote: »Calories in and calories out is a limited tool to describe how foods are affecting your body. Understanding the endocrine system and how foods impact it at different times of the day is the next level.
If "the next level" means advanced/elite athletes and very lean people who are approaching their genetic muscular potential, I agree. For the average Joe/Jane trying to lose weight and get in better shape, nutrient timing is all but completely insignificant and not even worthy of consideration.
For ~99% of the general population, obsessing over nutrient timing, supplementation, macronutrient TEF values, etc. is majoring in the minors. Get your calorie deficit in order and stick to it, tweak your macros as needed for satiety, personal preference and training performance, and get involved in some kind of exercise program that you enjoy and will consistently do (the latter being optional for weight loss, but a good idea for general health/fitness). Don't sweat all the little details and get wrapped up the woo and broscience.7 -
hamilton8560 wrote: »Calories in and calories out is a limited tool to describe how foods are affecting your body. Understanding the endocrine system and how foods impact it at different times of the day is the next level.
And I would say the vast majority of people on this site don't actually need to be at that level. It's called majoring in the minors. People who have mostly achieved their goal of weight loss but are looking for elite levels of body sculpting need to look at the minor details. The average person wanting to lose 50-100lbs to not be classified as obese any more doe not.2 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
Never understood the vegan thing. I do understand not wanting to kill animals for food and have no problem with that philosophy.
But if you won't eat an egg from your neighbor's happy and healthy backyard chickens just a few times a year, it becomes a religion. And please vegans, don't give me a cholesterol lecture.
My decision to avoid eggs from backyard chickens has nothing to do with religion -- it's a consistent position on animal exploitation. Backyard chickens actually form a significant part of the rescue chicken population and many of them are killed when the people who own them are no longer able to care for them. Even if one does make a commitment to care for chickens for their entire life (that is, not killing them when their production rate declines), there are no sources for chicks of which I am aware that don't participate in practices to which I am opposed (chick culling, using chickens for meat, and selling chicks to people who prioritize profit over the welfare of the chickens) so I wouldn't want to be a part of that process by eating eggs from backyard chickens.
Even happy and healthy backyard chickens were treated as product at some point in their life -- although the person who is presently caring for them may have their welfare as a primary concern, I avoid eggs as part of an objection to the overall chick/chicken industry.
If you don't understand why someone does something, sometimes asking will help you to find out. It may be easier to dismiss something as a religion before seeking to understand it, but it doesn't lead to greater clarity. This is my choice of what I feel comfortable supporting with my own actions, I realize other people may feel differently.
My neighbor treats her chickens like I treat my dog. And look at her chickens as chicken rescues, just like my dog was a rescue.
There is no moral reason not to eat eggs from neighbor's chickens who are treated like family pets. None.
She obtained her chickens from an rescue organization? If so, she's probably very familiar with the routine abuse that is visited upon chickens when they are viewed as a means to an end (that is, as a source of food instead of as individuals) and she would probably understand why someone wouldn't want to support that system by consuming eggs (even if she personally chooses to eat the eggs that her chickens produce). I'm opting out of it because using chickens for eggs isn't something that I support.
Even if these particular chickens are rescues, can you not understand why anyone would want to refrain from participating in a system that overall treats chickens as objects? I'm not asking you to adopt my reasoning -- I'm questioning whether you can, for a moment, understand why someone else thinks differently than you do.
That you don't see a moral reason not to treat chickens as a source of food doesn't mean that others won't. For example, I see no valid moral reason to personally refrain from pre-marital sexual relations -- but that doesn't mean that I will insist that others share my moral reasoning and that their actions are without meaning. I can understand why others see it differently, I listen to them when they share their moral decision-making process. I would never say there is "no reason" for them to act as they do -- I understand their reasoning, even though I don't share it.
6 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
Never understood the vegan thing. I do understand not wanting to kill animals for food and have no problem with that philosophy.
But if you won't eat an egg from your neighbor's happy and healthy backyard chickens just a few times a year, it becomes a religion. And please vegans, don't give me a cholesterol lecture.
My decision to avoid eggs from backyard chickens has nothing to do with religion -- it's a consistent position on animal exploitation. Backyard chickens actually form a significant part of the rescue chicken population and many of them are killed when the people who own them are no longer able to care for them. Even if one does make a commitment to care for chickens for their entire life (that is, not killing them when their production rate declines), there are no sources for chicks of which I am aware that don't participate in practices to which I am opposed (chick culling, using chickens for meat, and selling chicks to people who prioritize profit over the welfare of the chickens) so I wouldn't want to be a part of that process by eating eggs from backyard chickens.
Even happy and healthy backyard chickens were treated as product at some point in their life -- although the person who is presently caring for them may have their welfare as a primary concern, I avoid eggs as part of an objection to the overall chick/chicken industry.
If you don't understand why someone does something, sometimes asking will help you to find out. It may be easier to dismiss something as a religion before seeking to understand it, but it doesn't lead to greater clarity. This is my choice of what I feel comfortable supporting with my own actions, I realize other people may feel differently.
My neighbor treats her chickens like I treat my dog. And look at her chickens as chicken rescues, just like my dog was a rescue.
There is no moral reason not to eat eggs from neighbor's chickens who are treated like family pets. None.
Wow you diagnose people with a mental health issue over the internet based on one behavior and now you get to dictate everyone's morality to them too?7 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I've read Ludwig's book and my husband and I have been following his program. I'm a normal weight person and have been maintaining using Mfp to travel calories and exercise. I experienced no weight loss but decrease in hunger between breakfast and lunch due to increased satiety. I basically follow the program pretty loosely now because I need more carbs to support my workouts. However, my husband, who is significantly overweight and type 2 diabetic, has lost 35 lbs since April. He's really the poster child for the kind of individual Ludwig writes about. Part of Ludwig's theory is that the low fat craze led to an industry that produced high carb, nutritionally empty foods that were unsatisfying, creating a population like my husband. For my hub, eating full fat products and increased protein significantly decreased his cravings for carbs. After eating a typical Ludwig breakfast, he's able to pass up donuts and pizza at the office. The answer is yes, my spouse is probably eating fewer calories because he is satisfied and too full to crave foods he ate before. He's also eating more nutrient dense foods.
And that is the problem with those who advocate calorie counting. Your husband has reduced calorie intake simply by changing what he eats. If he were just counting calories, but eating the crappy low-fat diet the USDA recommended for 30 years (they finally apologized this year), he probably would have failed because of the lack of satiety.
And of course if you greatly reduce consumption of grains and sugar, you can reduce complications from T2 diabetes, and sometimes reverse it. You can't if you are eating bagels and low-fat cream cheese for breakfast, pizza for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
Non sense. Low fat does not =/= low satiety. Protein + fiber have the greatest satiety, and then starches. Going from eating junk food to eating whole quality food is what made the difference. The person husband stopped eating highly calorie, high carb, high fat, high sodium foods and something more reasonable. It's the quality of food that change, which drove a reduction in calories. Many of us do the same thing with whole grains, oats, quinoa and bunch of other carb items.
"Protein + fiber "
Sounds like your a whole-food vegan. Good for you. But her husband (and 98% of Americans) will never be vegans. So you do the alternative healthy option for many (not all) because of satiety - high fat, low sugar, low grain.
Yup, sounds right.
Never understood the vegan thing. I do understand not wanting to kill animals for food and have no problem with that philosophy.
But if you won't eat an egg from your neighbor's happy and healthy backyard chickens just a few times a year, it becomes a religion. And please vegans, don't give me a cholesterol lecture.
My decision to avoid eggs from backyard chickens has nothing to do with religion -- it's a consistent position on animal exploitation. Backyard chickens actually form a significant part of the rescue chicken population and many of them are killed when the people who own them are no longer able to care for them. Even if one does make a commitment to care for chickens for their entire life (that is, not killing them when their production rate declines), there are no sources for chicks of which I am aware that don't participate in practices to which I am opposed (chick culling, using chickens for meat, and selling chicks to people who prioritize profit over the welfare of the chickens) so I wouldn't want to be a part of that process by eating eggs from backyard chickens.
Even happy and healthy backyard chickens were treated as product at some point in their life -- although the person who is presently caring for them may have their welfare as a primary concern, I avoid eggs as part of an objection to the overall chick/chicken industry.
If you don't understand why someone does something, sometimes asking will help you to find out. It may be easier to dismiss something as a religion before seeking to understand it, but it doesn't lead to greater clarity. This is my choice of what I feel comfortable supporting with my own actions, I realize other people may feel differently.
My neighbor treats her chickens like I treat my dog. And look at her chickens as chicken rescues, just like my dog was a rescue.
There is no moral reason not to eat eggs from neighbor's chickens who are treated like family pets. None.
Been down that road on these forums before. The reasoning made no sense to me (I shouldn't raise chickens because someone else is killing a baby rooster or some such nonsense).
But I would proffer that there is no reason not to eat eggs from any chicken that is treated humanely*. They don't have be in a backyard or treated as a pet. But I do think they should not be mistreated.
*Edited: other than personal preference, of course.
0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »I see lumpia!!
Lumpia must be different in different regions. The Lumpia I get from our neighbors isn't in that picture, or I'm blind. Both of which are completely possible.
Maybe... The ones that we get from the neighbor are usually long and skinny.0 -
This content has been removed.
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions