All calories may not be equal
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »all calories are the same for an energy standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same.
therefore, 200 calories of doughnuts = 200 calories of almonds, becuase they provide the same unit of energy; however, they do not have the same nutritional profile.
calorie deficit for weigth loss
macro/micro attention and structured exercise regimen for body comp goals..
this should end this thread, but it will not.
According to Dr. Lustig, a professor of nutrition at Harvard, you are incorrect.
Lustig has been proven wrong time and time again ..
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
https://junkscience.com/2013/07/food-nanny-rebellion-yale-doc-says-lustig-sugar-is-toxic-claim-not-rational/
A 2010 article on fructose. That is ancient history.
there is plenty more out there debunking his claims....5 -
People have lost careers over things they said decades ago before. Even things they don't actually stand behind anymore unlike Lustig.3
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »SusanMFindlay wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
You just eliminated the entire produce section and condemned the person to a junk food diet.
It's not difficult to buy a food scale, put a plate (or bowl) on it, hit zero and add your food.
Most people who start diets (including those who try to count calories) fail miserably.
So if you believe in CICO, why wouldn't you advise a newbie for maybe the 1st month, to do it the easy way - only eat things that you are certain of the calorie count (and to make a prior poster happy, add 10% to what the label says).
So let's say it works. You've done CICO the easy way for one month with no measuring and weighing, and you've lost 5 pounds. Now, you are a believe in CICO! Now, it is time to learn weighing and measuring, and eating better foods.
I don't understand it. This webpage is a CICO fraternity/sorority. If you want more people doing CICO, my advise is the best advise. It's hard enough to try to lose weight using any method, and now you are asking people to weigh and measure and weigh and measure when they start out. Forget about that for the first month.
Not sure why you are arguing against CICO when any method that results in weight loss is CICO because you have to consume less calories then you burn to lose weight. So whether you weight your food, restrict food groups, do keto, low carb, etc, it is all CICO.
Unless your argument is that people can eat in a calorie surplus and lose weight...?8 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
Are you being serious?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repeat: THIS IS NOT TRUE. Your yogurt is not guaranteed to contain 140 calories. In fact, in the US it can be up to 20% off ("the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label", Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR 101.9(g))). That yogurt might be 112 calories....or, more likely, that yogurt may be 168 calories. Now expand that to a frozen dinner, one that's, say....600 calories. That could actually be up to 720. If you eat all your calories from prepackaged food, without weighing the portions, and eat up to your deficit, then you will very likely be consuming more calories than you think, cutting into or stalling your weight loss.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
You can't be serious about the calories in the yogurt.
OK, so here's what you do. The label says 140 calories. To be safe, add 10%, and now it's 154 calories. Problem solved. Or, you can make a breakfast with four or five ingredients where you have to weight and measure, weigh and measure. I would advise sticking with the yogurt.
So now you're backing out of your "Not 150 calories" claim?
10% or 20% matters. Especially when it's on every item you eat, all day, and especially if you don't have much wiggle room in your calories. Not to mention your other mistakes are not governed by the FDA requirements, so the consequences of them could be catastrophic to a carefully planned weight loss system.
For a yogurt, it's 28 more calories. For everything else, it's much more. The only method to be accurate in your calorie counting, which is necessary, is to make sure your food is in the portions that you think they are, which cannot be done by trusting labels to be accurate since we know they're not.
Although I have to be honest - I don't think I've ever seen someone arguing both "what kind of calories you consume matter, they have to be good calories" and also "people should just be eating all of their food prepackaged!" It's an interesting, if contradictory, set of opinions!
To be fair though, that up to 20% compliance zone is true even if you are weighing your yogurt. The nutrition label on a my greek yogurt (and most)t container lists it's nutrient/calorie profile by the gram and cup. 120cal per 1/2c or 175g.
Now I weigh out my 175g to get my 120 cal, but that 20% potential margin of error for calories doesn't disappear just because I weighed it out. They have the same 20% margin in the calories for the weighted measure as well.
At the end of the day, we are all guesstimating even with proper weighing and measuring liquids. Just like we all guesstimate caloric burn, both resting and active. WEighing and measuring gives us a better estimation, as does HR straps and fitbits etc. But still just all estimates unless you are regularly using that doubly labeled water and having it tested.
The energy equation is simple math, the real world implementation of it is purely guesswork.7 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how to count calories though, and frankly throws doubt onto the many points you try to make against CICO, since you've revealed that you don't really understand it.
Do you truly think that every single egg is the exactly same weight, down to the grams? Have you looked into the labeling laws that allow mislabeling on caloric content within a certain range? Have you ever weighed a prepackaged item to see how different the weight actually is from what's mentioned on the package? You seem to think cereal should be measured in cups - do you honestly think that the same amount of cereal settles into a cup measure the exact same way every time, thus creating an exact caloric measurement?
The most basic, fundamental part of accurate calorie counting is "weigh all solids, measure all liquids". The reason people don't start with "eat prepackaged things" is because that's a fundamentally incorrect understanding of how this all works.
You are more likely to mess up weighing and measuring food than using nutrition labels.
If you are minimally competent neither is difficult.
However, eating mostly packaged stuff with labels would be difficult and unsatisfying for me, and more expensive and less nutritious, on average, than how I like to eat. So it would not be sustainable.
Drastically changing how you eat might be difficult for many people -- making gradual changes to reduce calories and (if necessary) to make the diet more nutritious overall will often be a good approach.2 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Most people who start diets (including those who try to count calories) fail miserably.
So if you believe in CICO, why wouldn't you advise a newbie for maybe the 1st month, to do it the easy way - only eat things that you are certain of the calorie count (and to make a prior poster happy, add 10% to what the label says).
So let's say it works. You've done CICO the easy way for one month with no measuring and weighing, and you've lost 5 pounds. Now, you are a believe in CICO! Now, it is time to learn weighing and measuring, and eating better foods.
I don't understand it. This webpage is a CICO fraternity/sorority. If you want more people doing CICO, my advise is the best advise. It's hard enough to try to lose weight using any method, and now you are asking people to weigh and measure and weigh and measure when they start out. Forget about that for the first month.
I disagree that your way is the "easy way". Most people fail on diets because they're hungry - not because weighing was too much work. An all-processed-food diet will leave you hungry because you simply won't be getting the volume that most heavier people need to feel full.
When I first started calorie counting, the first thing I did was buy a food scale and I immediately started weighing my food. (And I'll admit that I'm a scientist so weighing is completely trivial to me - as it should be for anyone who took a decent home ec or science class in school. Typing everything into the computer was *way* more time consuming than the weighing part.) The main changes that happened - and the reason I was successful at losing the weight - and the reason I continued with calorie counting - were mental. It was an awareness of how many calories were in different foods, so I started eating more fruit and veg because they were less calorie dense. None of that would/could have happened on an all processed food diet. Instead, I would have been hungry all the time and would have given up.4 -
Actually we aren't talking about Dr. Lustig, but Dr. Ludwig.
I am going to go ahead and cut sugar, potatoes and processed foods out of my diet for 6 months anyway. I know a lot of you don't agree and to that I say- don't do it then! I spent two years off of sugar and flour and lost 79 pounds. So many people were bothered by this and convinced me that I should be able to eat anything I wanted in moderation. Of course I love sugar and flour and so I gave it a try- and gained back 50 pounds in the process. I am driven to overeat these things. Those of you who can't relate to this don't have that problem and I am happy for you because it really sucks. I know that I was more energetic and overall healthier when I wasn't consuming sugar and flour. Did I insist that everyone else did it? No! I didn't even make my children do that because everyone is allowed to make their own choices.
I posted this morning looking for likeminded individuals, not looking for reasons not to cut out refined sugars and flour. I found a couple, so thanks to them.
I'm not a newbie in any sense. I need support to go down the abstinence road because people are constantly telling me how stupid it is. It isn't easy but I know that it is right for me. And yes, eating 4000 calories a day won't end in weight loss.5 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
Are you being serious?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repeat: THIS IS NOT TRUE. Your yogurt is not guaranteed to contain 140 calories. In fact, in the US it can be up to 20% off ("the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label", Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR 101.9(g))). That yogurt might be 112 calories....or, more likely, that yogurt may be 168 calories. Now expand that to a frozen dinner, one that's, say....600 calories. That could actually be up to 720. If you eat all your calories from prepackaged food, without weighing the portions, and eat up to your deficit, then you will very likely be consuming more calories than you think, cutting into or stalling your weight loss.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
You can't be serious about the calories in the yogurt.
OK, so here's what you do. The label says 140 calories. To be safe, add 10%, and now it's 154 calories. Problem solved. Or, you can make a breakfast with four or five ingredients where you have to weight and measure, weigh and measure. I would advise sticking with the yogurt.
So now you're backing out of your "Not 150 calories" claim?
10% or 20% matters. Especially when it's on every item you eat, all day, and especially if you don't have much wiggle room in your calories. Not to mention your other mistakes are not governed by the FDA requirements, so the consequences of them could be catastrophic to a carefully planned weight loss system.
For a yogurt, it's 28 more calories. For everything else, it's much more. The only method to be accurate in your calorie counting, which is necessary, is to make sure your food is in the portions that you think they are, which cannot be done by trusting labels to be accurate since we know they're not.
Although I have to be honest - I don't think I've ever seen someone arguing both "what kind of calories you consume matter, they have to be good calories" and also "people should just be eating all of their food prepackaged!" It's an interesting, if contradictory, set of opinions!
To be fair though, that up to 20% compliance zone is true even if you are weighing your yogurt. The nutrition label on a my greek yogurt (and most)t container lists it's nutrient/calorie profile by the gram and cup. 120cal per 1/2c or 175g.
Now I weigh out my 175g to get my 120 cal, but that 20% potential margin of error for calories doesn't disappear just because I weighed it out. Their have the same 20% margin in the calories for the weighted measure as well.
Yeah definitely, you'd have to go by grams and decide if it's worth the extra calories, if you want all the yogurt, etc. after weighing for sure. Weighing isn't a method to keep in a deficit, just a method to make sure that if you want a deficit you have the tools to get there!
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earthakin66 wrote: »Actually we aren't talking about Dr. Lustig, but Dr. Ludwig.
I am going to go ahead and cut sugar, potatoes and processed foods out of my diet for 6 months anyway. I know a lot of you don't agree and to that I say- don't do it then! I spent two years off of sugar and flour and lost 79 pounds. So many people were bothered by this and convinced me that I should be able to eat anything I wanted in moderation. Of course I love sugar and flour and so I gave it a try- and gained back 50 pounds in the process. I am driven to overeat these things. Those of you who can't relate to this don't have that problem and I am happy for you because it really sucks. I know that I was more energetic and overall healthier when I wasn't consuming sugar and flour. Did I insist that everyone else did it? No! I didn't even make my children do that because everyone is allowed to make their own choices.
I posted this morning looking for likeminded individuals, not looking for reasons not to cut out refined sugars and flour. I found a couple, so thanks to them.
I'm not a newbie in any sense. I need support to go down the abstinence road because people are constantly telling me how stupid it is. It isn't easy but I know that it is right for me. And yes, eating 4000 calories a day won't end in weight loss.
You know, maybe if you didn't cut them out entirely and instead tried to get a healthy relationship with it you wouldn't have binged on it and wouldn't need a second try at losing weight.
Just a thought.14 -
kshama2001 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Sounds like Slimming world to me, and people lose massive amounts of weight on that not weighing or counting most of the foods they eat?
Not according to the people who start Slimming World threads here...
I lost 2 stone on slimming world, it definetly works.....also did the atkins which I lost around 18lbs very quickly, my problem with both was the lack of bread amongst other food so wasent sustainable for me. I prefer mfp because variety of food is more important to me, but counting calories makes me hungrier. I definitely ate much more calories on slimming world and atkins than im allowed now on mfp (yes I checked) That kinda throws the cico theory out the window. Other methods do work, I just prefer mfp for now. I may go back to slimming world to get rid of my last stone.
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yes, @stephencloser, that is the type of comment I am talking about. I can't develop a healthy relationship with them. Since you can, be happy about that. I can't develop a healthy relationship with wine either, but no one urges me to try.
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bethannien wrote: »Tedebearduff wrote: »earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
Your body does not react to them the same but the crazy CICO people will go on and on cause the unit of measure is the same. Regardless your body has a different hormonal response to each of the 2 items you just listed even though they are of the same calorie count. (saying you're right)
Welcome to the MFP community full of know it all's who "call out BS" and don't back any of there knowledge at all.They'll tell you to google it cause there are hundreds of studies out there that they've also never read!
Also that1 chick mentioned that people selling books are just trying to make money but then references that she also wrote a book... hilarious right? like am I the only person that caught that??
Remember when you're on here... most people are dicks... more so when it comes to CICO and or being a vegan... and know that for a fact! they are uneducated, unsuccessful people who know nothing at all, cause if they did ... they wouldn't be *kitten* around on the message boards now would they? Like if they are so educated, and so successful what are they doing on here all day?
Feel free to message me Earth if you want to talk about how stupid cico and how your body doesn't respond the same to 200 calories of doughnuts versus almonds.
Literally no one is saying that 200 calories of donuts is going to be as satisfying as 200 calories of nutrient dense food.
Also, calling most people "dicks" and being sarcastic and dismissive of everyone doesn't exactly make you look like a super nice guy, yourself pal.
If being a ***** means being honest and trying to save a person from a little bit of the heart ache I went through for so many years, and just one persons listens, then I am happy to be one.
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
Are you being serious?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repeat: THIS IS NOT TRUE. Your yogurt is not guaranteed to contain 140 calories. In fact, in the US it can be up to 20% off ("the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label", Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR 101.9(g))). That yogurt might be 112 calories....or, more likely, that yogurt may be 168 calories. Now expand that to a frozen dinner, one that's, say....600 calories. That could actually be up to 720. If you eat all your calories from prepackaged food, without weighing the portions, and eat up to your deficit, then you will very likely be consuming more calories than you think, cutting into or stalling your weight loss.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
You can't be serious about the calories in the yogurt.
OK, so here's what you do. The label says 140 calories. To be safe, add 10%, and now it's 154 calories. Problem solved. Or, you can make a breakfast with four or five ingredients where you have to weight and measure, weigh and measure. I would advise sticking with the yogurt.
So now you're backing out of your "Not 150 calories" claim?
10% or 20% matters. Especially when it's on every item you eat, all day, and especially if you don't have much wiggle room in your calories. Not to mention your other mistakes are not governed by the FDA requirements, so the consequences of them could be catastrophic to a carefully planned weight loss system.
For a yogurt, it's 28 more calories. For everything else, it's much more. The only method to be accurate in your calorie counting, which is necessary, is to make sure your food is in the portions that you think they are, which cannot be done by trusting labels to be accurate since we know they're not.
Although I have to be honest - I don't think I've ever seen someone arguing both "what kind of calories you consume matter, they have to be good calories" and also "people should just be eating all of their food prepackaged!" It's an interesting, if contradictory, set of opinions!
To be fair though, that up to 20% compliance zone is true even if you are weighing your yogurt. The nutrition label on a my greek yogurt (and most)t container lists it's nutrient/calorie profile by the gram and cup. 120cal per 1/2c or 175g.
Now I weigh out my 175g to get my 120 cal, but that 20% potential margin of error for calories doesn't disappear just because I weighed it out. Their have the same 20% margin in the calories for the weighted measure as well.
Yeah definitely, you'd have to go by grams and decide if it's worth the extra calories, if you want all the yogurt, etc. after weighing for sure. Weighing isn't a method to keep in a deficit, just a method to make sure that if you want a deficit you have the tools to get there!
I could be wrong, but I think this poster means that even if you weigh out 175g of yogurt, it will have 120 calories +/- error, because not every batch of yogurt will be identical. The 120 cal is still an estimate. Of course, weighing things out means you are decreasing error and coming closer to the real value, so it is still worth it.4 -
SusanMFindlay wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Most people who start diets (including those who try to count calories) fail miserably.
So if you believe in CICO, why wouldn't you advise a newbie for maybe the 1st month, to do it the easy way - only eat things that you are certain of the calorie count (and to make a prior poster happy, add 10% to what the label says).
So let's say it works. You've done CICO the easy way for one month with no measuring and weighing, and you've lost 5 pounds. Now, you are a believe in CICO! Now, it is time to learn weighing and measuring, and eating better foods.
I don't understand it. This webpage is a CICO fraternity/sorority. If you want more people doing CICO, my advise is the best advise. It's hard enough to try to lose weight using any method, and now you are asking people to weigh and measure and weigh and measure when they start out. Forget about that for the first month.
I disagree that your way is the "easy way". Most people fail on diets because they're hungry - not because weighing was too much work. An all-processed-food diet will leave you hungry because you simply won't be getting the volume that most heavier people need to feel full.
When I first started calorie counting, the first thing I did was buy a food scale and I immediately started weighing my food. (And I'll admit that I'm a scientist so weighing is completely trivial to me - as it should be for anyone who took a decent home ec or science class in school. Typing everything into the computer was *way* more time consuming than the weighing part.) The main changes that happened - and the reason I was successful at losing the weight - and the reason I continued with calorie counting - were mental. It was an awareness of how many calories were in different foods, so I started eating more fruit and veg because they were less calorie dense. None of that would/could have happened on an all processed food diet. Instead, I would have been hungry all the time and would have given up.
^ This. My food scale has made my life so much easier and reduced the time I have to spend measuring my food on a daily basis. I hate having to wash measuring cups/spoons every day; it's much easier and faster for me to use one bowl and one spoon and just tare out the scale in between adding ingredients. Plus, it's much cheaper for me (and better for the environment) to buy bigger containers of yogurt and cottage cheese than it would be to buy individual cups.5 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
Are you being serious?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repeat: THIS IS NOT TRUE. Your yogurt is not guaranteed to contain 140 calories. In fact, in the US it can be up to 20% off ("the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label", Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR 101.9(g))). That yogurt might be 112 calories....or, more likely, that yogurt may be 168 calories. Now expand that to a frozen dinner, one that's, say....600 calories. That could actually be up to 720. If you eat all your calories from prepackaged food, without weighing the portions, and eat up to your deficit, then you will very likely be consuming more calories than you think, cutting into or stalling your weight loss.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
You can't be serious about the calories in the yogurt.
OK, so here's what you do. The label says 140 calories. To be safe, add 10%, and now it's 154 calories. Problem solved. Or, you can make a breakfast with four or five ingredients where you have to weight and measure, weigh and measure. I would advise sticking with the yogurt.
So now you're backing out of your "Not 150 calories" claim?
10% or 20% matters. Especially when it's on every item you eat, all day, and especially if you don't have much wiggle room in your calories. Not to mention your other mistakes are not governed by the FDA requirements, so the consequences of them could be catastrophic to a carefully planned weight loss system.
For a yogurt, it's 28 more calories. For everything else, it's much more. The only method to be accurate in your calorie counting, which is necessary, is to make sure your food is in the portions that you think they are, which cannot be done by trusting labels to be accurate since we know they're not.
Although I have to be honest - I don't think I've ever seen someone arguing both "what kind of calories you consume matter, they have to be good calories" and also "people should just be eating all of their food prepackaged!" It's an interesting, if contradictory, set of opinions!
To be fair though, that up to 20% compliance zone is true even if you are weighing your yogurt. The nutrition label on a my greek yogurt (and most)t container lists it's nutrient/calorie profile by the gram and cup. 120cal per 1/2c or 175g.
Now I weigh out my 175g to get my 120 cal, but that 20% potential margin of error for calories doesn't disappear just because I weighed it out. Their have the same 20% margin in the calories for the weighted measure as well.
Yeah definitely, you'd have to go by grams and decide if it's worth the extra calories, if you want all the yogurt, etc. after weighing for sure. Weighing isn't a method to keep in a deficit, just a method to make sure that if you want a deficit you have the tools to get there!
I could be wrong, but I think this poster means that even if you weigh out 175g of yogurt, it will have 120 calories +/- error, because not every batch of yogurt will be identical. The 120 cal is still an estimate. Of course, weighing things out means you are decreasing error and coming closer to the real value, so it is still worth it.
Yes, exactly what I meant. We all just guessing. People who measure are just closer to the actual that those that are eyeballing.
Short of having a medical condition, how good we assess our intake and burn shows up when you get on the scale or do your measurements.3 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
Are you being serious?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repeat: THIS IS NOT TRUE. Your yogurt is not guaranteed to contain 140 calories. In fact, in the US it can be up to 20% off ("the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label", Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR 101.9(g))). That yogurt might be 112 calories....or, more likely, that yogurt may be 168 calories. Now expand that to a frozen dinner, one that's, say....600 calories. That could actually be up to 720. If you eat all your calories from prepackaged food, without weighing the portions, and eat up to your deficit, then you will very likely be consuming more calories than you think, cutting into or stalling your weight loss.
Seriously, have you actually weighed the yogurt before determining it has 140 calories, not 139 or 141?
You can't be serious about the calories in the yogurt.
OK, so here's what you do. The label says 140 calories. To be safe, add 10%, and now it's 154 calories. Problem solved. Or, you can make a breakfast with four or five ingredients where you have to weight and measure, weigh and measure. I would advise sticking with the yogurt.
So now you're backing out of your "Not 150 calories" claim?
10% or 20% matters. Especially when it's on every item you eat, all day, and especially if you don't have much wiggle room in your calories. Not to mention your other mistakes are not governed by the FDA requirements, so the consequences of them could be catastrophic to a carefully planned weight loss system.
For a yogurt, it's 28 more calories. For everything else, it's much more. The only method to be accurate in your calorie counting, which is necessary, is to make sure your food is in the portions that you think they are, which cannot be done by trusting labels to be accurate since we know they're not.
Although I have to be honest - I don't think I've ever seen someone arguing both "what kind of calories you consume matter, they have to be good calories" and also "people should just be eating all of their food prepackaged!" It's an interesting, if contradictory, set of opinions!
To be fair though, that up to 20% compliance zone is true even if you are weighing your yogurt. The nutrition label on a my greek yogurt (and most)t container lists it's nutrient/calorie profile by the gram and cup. 120cal per 1/2c or 175g.
Now I weigh out my 175g to get my 120 cal, but that 20% potential margin of error for calories doesn't disappear just because I weighed it out. Their have the same 20% margin in the calories for the weighted measure as well.
Yeah definitely, you'd have to go by grams and decide if it's worth the extra calories, if you want all the yogurt, etc. after weighing for sure. Weighing isn't a method to keep in a deficit, just a method to make sure that if you want a deficit you have the tools to get there!
I could be wrong, but I think this poster means that even if you weigh out 175g of yogurt, it will have 120 calories +/- error, because not every batch of yogurt will be identical. The 120 cal is still an estimate. Of course, weighing things out means you are decreasing error and coming closer to the real value, so it is still worth it.
I think you're right and I misread - and on further reading of the guidelines you and him are both right because the FDA does go by gram measurements in servings, not serving amounts. Thanks for correcting me, that's good to know!
Edit: I would say this makes weighing even more important, to reduce the margin of error by any amount you can
3 -
earthakin66 wrote: »Actually we aren't talking about Dr. Lustig, but Dr. Ludwig.
I am going to go ahead and cut sugar, potatoes and processed foods out of my diet for 6 months anyway. I know a lot of you don't agree and to that I say- don't do it then! I spent two years off of sugar and flour and lost 79 pounds. So many people were bothered by this and convinced me that I should be able to eat anything I wanted in moderation. Of course I love sugar and flour and so I gave it a try- and gained back 50 pounds in the process. I am driven to overeat these things. Those of you who can't relate to this don't have that problem and I am happy for you because it really sucks. I know that I was more energetic and overall healthier when I wasn't consuming sugar and flour. Did I insist that everyone else did it? No! I didn't even make my children do that because everyone is allowed to make their own choices.
I posted this morning looking for likeminded individuals, not looking for reasons not to cut out refined sugars and flour. I found a couple, so thanks to them.
I'm not a newbie in any sense. I need support to go down the abstinence road because people are constantly telling me how stupid it is. It isn't easy but I know that it is right for me. And yes, eating 4000 calories a day won't end in weight loss.
Ludwig is a huge proponent of Low Carb. Personally, I feel that if you find success in any method and can sustain that method, then it's fine. I fully recognize that some people have trigger foods and at least in the interim, it can be vastly beneficial to cut them. If at some point, you want to incorporate those foods again, then you can work them in transitionally. Personally, fat doesn't satiate me, so it's one of the things I cut. And when i do get fat, it's mainly from dairy or unsaturated sources.
You might want to check out the low carb group.5
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