Why didn't Keto work for me?
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sweetbug0130 wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »I looked at about a week of the diary and the calorie totals are all over the place. I saw 1100, 700, 2000, 1400, 1500. These are broad ranges to consistently stay in a calorie deficit.. At one point the calorie goal was only 800 calories a day?
Did you regain the 4 pounds back? and Are you taking diet break now and wanting to go back to the 13XX?
What is your plan now? And are you power lifting now?
No I didn't regain the 4 lbs back. My trainer had me on intermittent fasting and calorie cycling which is why I'm reaching out to you guys for help. Keto is the only diet I can do effortlessly. I am lifting but not near as much as I was doing with the trainer.
The 4 pounds loss is still a loss and that is fantastic.
Have you setup your calorie plan to lose x pounds now in MFP? Are you making a "start fresh" goal? All I can advise that makes some sense to me, is to drop the refeeds, there is not benefit from carb loading when doing keto.
Stay with in your daily calories (no going over and especially no going under).. Do this for 3 - 4 weeks min. Take measurements of your body and maybe even photos.. since you are lifting heavy, you might notice some changes in body competition that may not show on the scale. You can do a weight trending app if you weigh daily.
Give this entire plan 3 - 4 weeks of 100% commitment and come back and tell us if this is work for you or not. If you do 100% by the book per se, and keto does not allow you to lose real fat loss, then you may want to reconsider a different method of losing weight (back to moderate carb,etc..)
I just did set it up. I'm going shopping tonight. I will start taking photos and measurements as well. I normally lose inches first anyways because I do lift. I am starting to think the refeeds are what messed me up. If I was lifting a lot, he would have me refeed every Saturday. Thanks for the info!
I have a feeling you'll do great. Just focus on logging accurately and keep us all updated on your progress
Thank you sweet girl!0 -
Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.4
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Also, log any cheat/binge/high calorie days. I can easily wipe out a week's deficit eating whatever I want.
And yes, your trainer gave you horrible eating advice; all sorts of tricks to try and get you into a deficit, but none are "required". Find a way of eating that works for you and helps you stay at a deficit and stick with it.3 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
It actually is that simple. As for your dog example, I can guarantee your more lean dog burns more calories through activity or exercise than your chubby one. They may eat the same or the chubby one may even eat less, but if the lean dog is burning more calories, it is still CI/CO.4 -
Did you ever consider that combining LC with hard core weight lifting had you building muscle while you were cutting fat? Did you ever do an immersion BF test? The scale only sees weight, it doesn't see what is fat vs muscle.
ETA - if you are doing that heavy of lifting, you should NOT be trying to eat at a calorie deficit, Our bodies are very ineffective at both building muscle (growing) while burning fat (shrinking). Yes, you can do it, but you don't do either very well. Heavy lifting requires a LOT of protein but it also requires carbs.0 -
sweetbug0130 wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »I looked at about a week of the diary and the calorie totals are all over the place. I saw 1100, 700, 2000, 1400, 1500. These are broad ranges to consistently stay in a calorie deficit.. At one point the calorie goal was only 800 calories a day?
Did you regain the 4 pounds back? and Are you taking diet break now and wanting to go back to the 13XX?
What is your plan now? And are you power lifting now?
No I didn't regain the 4 lbs back. My trainer had me on intermittent fasting and calorie cycling which is why I'm reaching out to you guys for help. Keto is the only diet I can do effortlessly. I am lifting but not near as much as I was doing with the trainer.
If keto is the way of eating you prefer, why not just give it another try? Set MFP to lose 1 lb per week and only eat back half your exercise calories. Log food and give it a few weeks, then see where you are. Even if you are still stuck, you'll at least have some data to reference to determine where you may need to make some tweaks, and people would be able to help you pinpoint the issue.
I'll try anything. Eat back half the exercise calories every day? I feel like I get more informative answers on here than when I was paying my trainer!
I always went with half because you can't really measure calorie burn very well. You can get an estimate, but the MFP estimates tend to be really inflated. So by doing half, it meant that I was most likely still in a deficit, but would sometimes eat a little more if I felt hungry or if I didn't feel like I had enough energy for my workouts. After a few weeks of monitoring intake and weight loss, I was able to come up with a calorie estimate that worked.1 -
sweetbug0130 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »How much weight did you have to lose? What are your stats? What answers are you looking for then if you don't want to hear a thing about calorie deficit?
I have about 80 to lose atleast. I'm 5'2" 266 lbs. The reason I don't want to hear about a calorie deficit is bc I know that part and did eat at a calorie deficit, lost four pounds the first week and didn't lose anything else over two months.
If you didn't lose anything in two months, you weren't eating at a deficit. Sorry.
So 1370 isn't a deficit!?!?!? If not then I give up and will remain at my weight. I will not starve myself.
Sweetbug, I encourage you to take a step back and really analyze this. That you did were not losing weight is clear evidence that you were not eating at a calorie deficit. Had you been doing so you would have lost weight.
1. Did you weigh all solids and measure all liquids and log every single thing you ate every single day?
2. Did you have any cheat days, or days where you went over, that you did not log your food?
3. Did you ensure you were using accurate food entries?
4. Where did you get those exercise burns from? I can assure you you are not burning 300-500 calories for weight lifting. In fact, weight lifting is part of your activity level and should be counted as zero. Only steady state cardio calories are counted for exercise.
Those are just some things to think about.
I was told by my trainer to have two carb refeed days a month. Did that really mess me up that badly?
Not likely. I don't believe that carb refeeds are necessary for strictly losing weight on a low carb or ketogenic diet but they do show up in places like lifting for specific performance purposes. You will gain back water weight but not fat on a carb backload. Have you been tracking other measurements other than just weight?
I didn't track measurements. What I'm thinking is maybe I had wrong information from my trainer.
I can't argue with that, most advice from trainers is not worth following TBH, most of them have little if any science background let alone enough to advise properly on performance nutrition (even if they have a cert of dubious origins). Also, they might be breaking state laws from what I understand if they are not an RD and are prescribing a diet, at least that's what Dr. Norton has indicated in his vlogs. Trainers should be sticking to training advice and leaving diet and nutrition to those who specialize in that field.
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2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.1 -
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2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
My point exactly.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.1 -
silverfiend wrote: »Did you ever consider that combining LC with hard core weight lifting had you building muscle while you were cutting fat? Did you ever do an immersion BF test? The scale only sees weight, it doesn't see what is fat vs muscle.
ETA - if you are doing that heavy of lifting, you should NOT be trying to eat at a calorie deficit, Our bodies are very ineffective at both building muscle (growing) while burning fat (shrinking). Yes, you can do it, but you don't do either very well. Heavy lifting requires a LOT of protein but it also requires carbs.
Thanks for that info. I didn't do any bf tests.0 -
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sweetbug0130 wrote: »
Did you watch the video and have specific questions about it or just a generic "???"?0 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.
And both dogs move around exactly the same amount during the day? They play the same amount and with the same intensity? They sleep exactly the same? They both have precisely the same lean mass vs fat mass (obviously not)? When you take the dogs for a walk, both behave exactly the same way (react identically to the things they see, smell and hear, keep the same tension on the leash, one doesn't have more extraneous movement, etc)?
The contributors to CO are more complex than you're thinking.9 -
diannethegeek wrote: »sweetbug0130 wrote: »
Did you watch the video and have specific questions about it or just a generic "???"?
Oh it didn't show me it was a video. I'm sorry.0 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.
And both dogs move around exactly the same amount during the day? They play the same amount and with the same intensity? They sleep exactly the same? They both have precisely the same lean mass vs fat mass (obviously not)? When you take the dogs for a walk, both behave exactly the same way (react identically to the things they see, smell and hear, keep the same tension on the leash, one doesn't have more extraneous movement, etc)?
The contributors to CO are more complex than you're thinking.
And to add, breeds make a difference too, picture a St Bernard then a Grey Hound.5 -
queenliz99 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.
And both dogs move around exactly the same amount during the day? They play the same amount and with the same intensity? They sleep exactly the same? They both have precisely the same lean mass vs fat mass (obviously not)? When you take the dogs for a walk, both behave exactly the same way (react identically to the things they see, smell and hear, keep the same tension on the leash, one doesn't have more extraneous movement, etc)?
The contributors to CO are more complex than you're thinking.
And to add, breeds make a difference too, picture a St Bernard then a Grey Hound.
I'm also curious about whether the dogs sex makes a difference like it does in humans. What I mean is if you take a male and a female human, same height and weight, the guy would be able to eat substantially more than she would in order to maintain their current weight. Could the same apply to dogs to some degree I wonder? <curious>3 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.
Dog breeds are way more diverse in genetic makeup than humans. Purposeful breeding does that.2 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »2snakeswoman wrote: »Bodies are complex; definitely not as simple as the CI/CO people want to believe. An example - I have two big dogs. They get the same food and the same amount of exercise. They both have normal lab test results. One of them tends toward chubby. I feed her the minimum amount of food recommended for a dog of her size, and she's at the top of her acceptable weight range. The other dog is more lean. He gets more food than the other dog does, and he stays in the middle of his acceptable weight range. Why? My vet can't tell me.
Yes, biochemistry is very complex and no diet regime you get from a book or from a forum (including IFFYM, low carb, keto or any others) can encompass all that their is. That's why people spend years of education specializing in such things. If you have a specific issue than the customized recommendations of an RD is the way to go. However, your dogs have no real bearing on this because you can't really control for their actual consumption or exercise, you just make assumption and not to mention that breeds can be very different do to husbantry while people not so much.
I absolutely do account for consumption and exercise. I'm the feeder and dog walker. Slightly chubby dog gets 2 cups of food per day. Lean dog gets 3 cups. They are different breeds, but we humans also differ in exact genetic makeup.
And both dogs move around exactly the same amount during the day? They play the same amount and with the same intensity? They sleep exactly the same? They both have precisely the same lean mass vs fat mass (obviously not)? When you take the dogs for a walk, both behave exactly the same way (react identically to the things they see, smell and hear, keep the same tension on the leash, one doesn't have more extraneous movement, etc)?
The contributors to CO are more complex than you're thinking.
This is the exact point I was trying to make to her.
You cannot tell me that both of these dogs are exactly the same. My mother in law has two labs and one is more lean than the other. The one that is more lean is WAY more active than the other. Just around the house if you walk around, the lean one is following you everywhere. The chubby one prefers to lay more.3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjKPIcI51lU
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