INTERMITTENT FASTING - A LIFESTYLE MAKEOVER
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Gale, you need to stop turning every thread into a carb thread.
1. This thread is NOT about "not eating carbs" like you stated
2. Carbs don't "increase the chances of cancer" (not a single study isolated carbs from the standard American diet, whatever that means, to control for macronutrient consumption in isolation)
3. Low carb does is not any better or worse than any other caloric restriction method for weight loss once you move away from what works for the individual (and if you really like studies that don't control for variables, vegetarians and vegans in particular tend to have lower BMI)
4. Keto does not increase the mitochondrial density or slow down aging at its own merit, and as a matter of fact most long-lived people eat a moderate to high carb diet.
5. Carbs make you hungry, but they don't make everyone hungry and in fact for some they promote satiety. Your personal experience is not universal.
6. McDonald's sausage is as processed as McDonald's burger and is not the best choice if you are chasing "X increases cancer risk" studies.
7. No one here is "saying negative things about keto". This thread has nothing to do with keto.
8. Put those pamphlets down and stop derailing the thread. Go start your own and talk about carbs all you want.22 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
Considering that fat enters the blood stream directly as fat and carbs need to go through DNLG I don't believe you are correct here. Carbs take a long time to become fat unless you are already full on glycogen, which means you would be highly over nourished. Now if you are talking about a systemic overview where you reduce fat oxidation while Insulin levels are raised due to a recent feeding on carbs then I can see that being a sort of backdoor way of saying this but technically it would not be correct.
The fastest way to lose fat is well know, be in a large caloric deficit.
Yeah, fast food is a great ball of energy that most people don't need.
Can we all just agreed a caloric deficit is REQUIRED to lose fat and there is no white or black magic that will cause FAT LOSS so we do have have to repost and repost that statement?
integrateddiabetes.com/Articles/insu/insulin%20&%20weight%20gain%20edited.pdf
"“Why does insulin cause weight gain?”
Insulin is a hormone that promotes the uptake of
sugar (glucose) by almost all of the body’s cells,
including muscle, liver and fat cells. At any
given time, our cells are also burning glucose
for fuel. If our fuel intake (calories eaten) is
greater than our energy expenditure (calories
burned), we tend to store more glucose than we
burn. Muscle and liver cells store this extra
glucose in a form called “glycogen”, which is a
very dense, compact form of glucose. Fat cells
store the extra glucose as fat."
I think most of you understand "Insulin" does NOT cause weight gain but that it "Enables" weight gain if one is over eating any source of calories be it C,P or F.
Carbs is the main driver of Insulin production in healthy people. IF works well because one is doing ZERO carbs in the IF window so insulin levels drops yet the body "requires" energy so it flips to burning fat because of the lack of glucose.
Low insulin level means low fat storing hormone level so we are not likely to store fact.
Our BMR still requires energy to maintain where is low, normal or high. Due to the being zero carb due to IF the body flips to burning fat. NO MAGIC is involved unless you call being Flex Fuel Ready magic.
Carbs are NO evil but are the main driver of Insulin production. Protein drives it about half as much as carbs. Fats functionally is not an Insulin driver.
Eating High Fat is NO magic but I thing all of you understand if 80% of my calories are coming from FATS vs. 80% Carbs that my Insulin levels are not going to peak as high after a meal and STOP my fat loss program as much.
Again this is all simple physiology. We have about 30 hormones that enable life. Insulin is but one and some of them impact our Insulin levels.
I agree we need a deficit with no black or white magic, absolutely.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
No. I skip breakfast and wait about 15-16 hours after eating at night and eating again in the morning. Some days my carb count is less than 100g. Other days it's over 200g. When I eat does not impact what I eat.
If one is eating Carbs, Protein or Fats in the IF window then one is NOT doing IF period. It is when you are going ZERO carbs that is giving you the health gains of doing IF.
No Zero Carb window = No IF period.
Technically yes, but this does not make you fat adapted. The human body burns mostly fat at rest so in normal circumstances there would be plenty of glycogen to "snack on" that keeps getting topped up during the eating window.
Keto proponents actually say it takes months on low carb and no refeed to get properly fat adapted, interesting if that can be achieved via partial abstinence. What's also interesting is that my satiety greatly suffers if I don't eat carbs, so you can basically be fat adapted but still need carbs for satiety and energy?
I think that it's the fiber that gives us satiety. Candy doesn't do that.
Fibre helps but there are different mechanisms for satiety depending on what you are eating. Candy would have low satiety.
For example, increased insulin increases your leptin, which in turn makes you less hungry.3 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
No. I skip breakfast and wait about 15-16 hours after eating at night and eating again in the morning. Some days my carb count is less than 100g. Other days it's over 200g. When I eat does not impact what I eat.
If one is eating Carbs, Protein or Fats in the IF window then one is NOT doing IF period. It is when you are going ZERO carbs that is giving you the health gains of doing IF.
No Zero Carb window = No IF period.
I've seen studies where they showed that pure fat administered through IV did not bring the body out of fasting, which is rather interesting if you want to fast and take in more energy, I just don't know how you could eat/drink pure fat other than oil. Ugh, no thanks on that!
You are getting warm. Fat did not trigger Insulin production. While I use coconut oil in coffee or tea every morning I do not like drinking it up straight either.
Lol.
First off, fat does trigger insulin release. It just happens at a slower rate and at much lower concentrations but it is there.
Second, habitual coffee intake results in increased fasting insulin concentration (probably through mechanism of decrease in insulin sensitivity).
And all along you are forgetting about insulin sensitivity. It's not only the concentration in the body that matters but the uptake and impact.
Enjoy that coffee.
Not to mention that if you increase insulin sensitivity in muscle that also increases it in fat cells. I'll take mine two cream two sugar please! 1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
My last "meal" of the day is about 80 grams of carbs with a teaspoon of fat. Every single day. I eat this about 7:00 at night.
I don't eat again the next day until 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon. The first thing I eat then? A banana.
No cravings.
I relate all of this to point out the fact that making sweeping statements about carbs and cravings won't hold to be universally true and isn't necessarily a good idea in a debate.
I'll leave your remarks about "making" fat and carbs to the more scientifically minded to explain why you're oversimplifying. Denovo lipogenesis isn't really an efficient metabolic thing that just happens for kicks and giggles.
Yes there are few if any universally true statements about how to eat. I know what is currently working for me only. IF is just going without any calories for a window of time. It seems to work well for many and perhaps of zero value to others. I am not debating about how another should eat. It is the overeating that is the main problem. If IF help then it helps.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
No. I skip breakfast and wait about 15-16 hours after eating at night and eating again in the morning. Some days my carb count is less than 100g. Other days it's over 200g. When I eat does not impact what I eat.
If one is eating Carbs, Protein or Fats in the IF window then one is NOT doing IF period. It is when you are going ZERO carbs that is giving you the health gains of doing IF.
No Zero Carb window = No IF period.
Technically yes, but this does not make you fat adapted. The human body burns mostly fat at rest so in normal circumstances there would be plenty of glycogen to "snack on" that keeps getting topped up during the eating window.
Keto proponents actually say it takes months on low carb and no refeed to get properly fat adapted, interesting if that can be achieved via partial abstinence. What's also interesting is that my satiety greatly suffers if I don't eat carbs, so you can basically be fat adapted but still need carbs for satiety and energy?
I think that it's the fiber that gives us satiety. Candy doesn't do that.
Fibre helps but there are different mechanisms for satiety depending on what you are eating. Candy would have low satiety.
For example, increased insulin increases your leptin, which in turn makes you less hungry.
Unless you have reduced leptin sensitivity which means you are probably obese and have insulin insensitivity as well. Unfortunately, things tend to magnify like that.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
I don't have cravings and I eat plenty of carbs (about 45-50%). The last time I recall having a real craving was when I was vegetarian for Lent and started thinking about my planned Easter dinner with lamb (and it was the lamb I was thinking about, not the potatoes or dessert). Obviously, that was some months ago. Occasionally I really want a particular food item or meal, but I wouldn't call it a craving, and it's something I can choose to fit in or not.
The idea that I was "keto" or "fat adapted" (more than usual) because I fasted for a day makes no sense. We all know there's an adjustment period before one is fully keto. It doesn't just kick in the minute you miss a usual breakfast.
I agree with you. This is why Keto long term or IF short term is NOT of interest to many for improving weight or lab numbers.
So if you agree with me now, you admit that you were wrong to claim that one must be LCHF to successfully fast?
I claim fasting is nothing more than a window of time without carbs, proteins and fats. Water is OK to drink in my view. I know there are egg, etc fast but that is not true fasting but just a limited macro.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I don't know why but IF doesn't have a massive effect on my appetite all day long. When I eat first thing in the morning, I am starving all day long...so there is a little magic for me. I don't know why but it does add up to a sum greater than its parts for me.
@ogtmama I think IF like Keto or LCHF we have to become fat adapted before IF may work. Getting into ketosis the first time took me a couple weeks I think. IF as I see it just LCHF. We are low carb because we are not eating and we are high fat because we're burning body fat.
IF need not be LCHF at all. I've considered doing 5:2 or even 16:8 (I used to eat that way for periods of time and never found it difficult), and read about it, and LCHF wasn't an element.
I was wrong. IF is only ZERO carb if you will think about it.
IF and Keto are functionally the same. You are withholding carb intake in IF and greatly reducing carbs to do keto.
The major way to make fat the fastest is carbs. The best way to lose fat is the inverse.
Technically the fastest way to make fat is to eat High Carb and High Fat at the same time. Processed food can work well to fatten up on for this reason. A Big Mac comes to mind especially chased down with sugar water.
My last "meal" of the day is about 80 grams of carbs with a teaspoon of fat. Every single day. I eat this about 7:00 at night.
I don't eat again the next day until 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon. The first thing I eat then? A banana.
No cravings.
I relate all of this to point out the fact that making sweeping statements about carbs and cravings won't hold to be universally true and isn't necessarily a good idea in a debate.
I'll leave your remarks about "making" fat and carbs to the more scientifically minded to explain why you're oversimplifying. Denovo lipogenesis isn't really an efficient metabolic thing that just happens for kicks and giggles.
Yes there are few if any universally true statements about how to eat. I know what is currently working for me only. IF is just going without any calories for a window of time. It seems to work well for many and perhaps of zero value to others. I am not debating about how another should eat. It is the overeating that is the main problem. If IF help then it helps.
Well, now I'm confused.
Because I can't see what your other statements about carbs and IF have to do with what you've said here.
To say the least about carbs and cancer, which have nothing at all to do with IF.
Very, very confusing.7 -
ericromzek wrote: »
That is incorrect. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, it does not stop it completely. Obviously, because you always have insulin in your blood.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
No. No they aren't. Are you seriously suggesting that people on low carb diets have no cravings for food?
I lost my carb cravings after not eating them for two weeks.
I still get hungry but I just make sure on any day my total carbs are <50 grams in the process of feeding my hunger. I can now go 12 hours without eating and still function. When I lived on a high carb diet after 4 hours I had to eat or drink more carbs to kind of function. Fat is more like diesel fuel where carbs is more of a flash fuel like gasoline.
What, this makes no sense. You just told me a few minutes ago that why I can fast no problem for a day is that I am eating no carbs. But when you would go 4 hours without eating, you too were eating no carbs during that period. How are those 4 hours different from my first 4 hours on a fasting day?
I have no way of knowing our differences. You may be able to fast for a day just because that is your decision. That is not something that I ever remember trying.
So when you told me a page or so ago that I can successfully fast "because you went ZERO carb for the day" you misrepresented your own view? I see.
Yes to truly fast one will be eating nothing so one would be zero carb by default. Insulin levels should be relative low as a side effect of the fasting. There are many listed side effects of fasting but I have not tried a 24 hour fast yet.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Bring back your metabolism to normal:
http://www.muscleforlife.com/reverse-diet/
Interesting article. Since I eat LCHF that by default typically increases BMR I have never done it but have seen it mentioned on some body building sites when researching LCHF.
How does Keto increase BMR? Do you have any references? This is something I'm not familiar with (and honestly curious in) since BMR is normally tightly regulated by several processes including mitochondrial efficiencies and T3.
@Wheelhouse15 off the top of my head I do not remember how LCHF/Keto has been proven to cause some increase in BMR. Since 90+ of cancer per some researchers is due to poor mitochondrial efficiencies I have been working to increase both the number and efficiencies of my mitochondrial so I expect KETO/LCHF does improve one's mitochondrial health that helps improve one's BMR. I did find the below that hints that may be the case in a passing comment.
telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/high-fat-cheese-the-secret-to-a-healthy-life/
"Bertram found that those who ate cheese had higher levels of butyric acid, a compound which has been been linked to reduced obesity and higher metabolism. The higher butyrate levels were linked to a reduction in cholesterol."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4027835/
"The pathogenesis of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), the most commonly diagnosed functional gastrointestinal condition, is complex, and its precise mechanisms are still unclear. This article describes the potential benefits of butyric acid in IBS."
I always wondered why after 40 years of very serious IBS after the first 6 months of LCHF/Keto that that my IBS seemed to be cured and 18 months later has not returned so far. Butyric Acid may be the key to why LCHF/Keto/IF can lead to fat loss as well as other positive side effects.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't increased mitochondrial efficiency actually lead to the exact opposite? Decreased BMR?
That would be the same as saying increasing muscle mass lowers BMR would it not?
weightlossforall.com/metabolism-raise-mitochondria.htm
"In order to lose weight quickly, it is important to raise the metabolism in order to burn more calories. Fit people tend to have a raised metabolism for two reasons, a higher level of lean mass and a greater number of mitochondria within the cells. If one has difficulty in raising the amount of lean mass it may be important to work on raising the metabolism by increasing the number of mitochondria."
coachcalorie.com/increase-mitochondrial-density/
"Without delving too deep into cellular biology, just understand that mitochondria are essential to our energy metabolism, and because of this, they play a very important role in fatty acid oxidation (fat loss). For fat loss to occur, fatty acids must be mobilized from fat stores and sent to mitochondria to be oxidized so that they can be used for energy."
So what you mean is increase mitochondrial activity vice efficiency, that makes more sense now.
Yep, via cheese!
And butter?
I drink a lot of Fairlife. Can I get in on this action?
Butter loves a crowd!
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ericromzek wrote: »
No, insulin acts to slow the release and increase the storage but does not stop it. It acts as a dimmer and not an on/off switch.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
No. No they aren't. Are you seriously suggesting that people on low carb diets have no cravings for food?
I lost my carb cravings after not eating them for two weeks.
I still get hungry but I just make sure on any day my total carbs are <50 grams in the process of feeding my hunger. I can now go 12 hours without eating and still function. When I lived on a high carb diet after 4 hours I had to eat or drink more carbs to kind of function. Fat is more like diesel fuel where carbs is more of a flash fuel like gasoline.
What, this makes no sense. You just told me a few minutes ago that why I can fast no problem for a day is that I am eating no carbs. But when you would go 4 hours without eating, you too were eating no carbs during that period. How are those 4 hours different from my first 4 hours on a fasting day?
I have no way of knowing our differences. You may be able to fast for a day just because that is your decision. That is not something that I ever remember trying.
So when you told me a page or so ago that I can successfully fast "because you went ZERO carb for the day" you misrepresented your own view? I see.
Yes to truly fast one will be eating nothing so one would be zero carb by default. Insulin levels should be relative low as a side effect of the fasting. There are many listed side effects of fasting but I have not tried a 24 hour fast yet.
Yes, rather obviously I was zero carb, zero fat, and zero protein for the day.* (I actually typically go to communion on fasting days, so count that as you prefer.)
My point is that if just doing it for the day is enough to make it easy, it should be easy for anyone right at first, and you claimed that you were starving after only 4 hours with no carbs, protein, or fat. What's the difference? It seems to me that you are saying inconsistent things.
*Not that it matters, but a day long fast isn't 24 hours -- it's from dinner (let's say 9 pm to be conservative) to breakfast the day after the fast (let's say 6 am), so about 33+ hours, depending on mealtimes.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
I don't have cravings and I eat plenty of carbs (about 45-50%). The last time I recall having a real craving was when I was vegetarian for Lent and started thinking about my planned Easter dinner with lamb (and it was the lamb I was thinking about, not the potatoes or dessert). Obviously, that was some months ago. Occasionally I really want a particular food item or meal, but I wouldn't call it a craving, and it's something I can choose to fit in or not.
The idea that I was "keto" or "fat adapted" (more than usual) because I fasted for a day makes no sense. We all know there's an adjustment period before one is fully keto. It doesn't just kick in the minute you miss a usual breakfast.
I agree with you. This is why Keto long term or IF short term is NOT of interest to many for improving weight or lab numbers.
So if you agree with me now, you admit that you were wrong to claim that one must be LCHF to successfully fast?
I claim fasting is nothing more than a window of time without carbs, proteins and fats. food Water is OK to drink in my view. I know there are egg, etc fast but that is not true fasting but just a limited macro.
Fixed it for you. Why turn a discussion about IF into a discussion about macros? Fasting is the avoidance of food, ie calories, for a particular period of time.8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
I don't have cravings and I eat plenty of carbs (about 45-50%). The last time I recall having a real craving was when I was vegetarian for Lent and started thinking about my planned Easter dinner with lamb (and it was the lamb I was thinking about, not the potatoes or dessert). Obviously, that was some months ago. Occasionally I really want a particular food item or meal, but I wouldn't call it a craving, and it's something I can choose to fit in or not.
The idea that I was "keto" or "fat adapted" (more than usual) because I fasted for a day makes no sense. We all know there's an adjustment period before one is fully keto. It doesn't just kick in the minute you miss a usual breakfast.
I agree with you. This is why Keto long term or IF short term is NOT of interest to many for improving weight or lab numbers.
So if you agree with me now, you admit that you were wrong to claim that one must be LCHF to successfully fast?
I claim fasting is nothing more than a window of time without carbs, proteins and fats. food Water is OK to drink in my view. I know there are egg, etc fast but that is not true fasting but just a limited macro.
Fixed it for you. Why turn a discussion about IF into a discussion about macros? Fasting is the avoidance of food, ie calories, for a particular period of time.
Can we all agree until one finds the micro at works best for them at the current time that counting calories is secondary to one's long term health success? I know I have to get what to eat correct before I know how much of it to eat. When to eat it can fall under how to do IF in a way at works best for me.
bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-macro-manager-low-carb-or-fasting.html
"I recommend my clients using a VLCD rather than fasting. My interpretation of the science is that due to the consistent, repeated stimulation of protein synthesis that you get with VLCD, it is a superior approach when looking at overall improvements in body composition. However, if executed properly, both these systems should result in similar fat loss. The key when choosing a VLCD or fasting is to decide which will enable you to execute most consistently and efficiently in your lifestyle."
This Ph.D. leans towards VLCD vs. IF.
0 -
I got a crick in my neck watching the goal posts move.8
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GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't eat low carb at all, but have never had an issue fasting. I do it from time to time for religious reasons (full day fast).
That is because you went ZERO carb for the day. Carbs are the driver of most all cravings. Hungry is real so we do not die but cravings are not so much.
I don't have cravings and I eat plenty of carbs (about 45-50%). The last time I recall having a real craving was when I was vegetarian for Lent and started thinking about my planned Easter dinner with lamb (and it was the lamb I was thinking about, not the potatoes or dessert). Obviously, that was some months ago. Occasionally I really want a particular food item or meal, but I wouldn't call it a craving, and it's something I can choose to fit in or not.
The idea that I was "keto" or "fat adapted" (more than usual) because I fasted for a day makes no sense. We all know there's an adjustment period before one is fully keto. It doesn't just kick in the minute you miss a usual breakfast.
I agree with you. This is why Keto long term or IF short term is NOT of interest to many for improving weight or lab numbers.
So if you agree with me now, you admit that you were wrong to claim that one must be LCHF to successfully fast?
I claim fasting is nothing more than a window of time without carbs, proteins and fats. food Water is OK to drink in my view. I know there are egg, etc fast but that is not true fasting but just a limited macro.
Fixed it for you. Why turn a discussion about IF into a discussion about macros? Fasting is the avoidance of food, ie calories, for a particular period of time.
Can we all agree until one finds the micro at works best for them at the current time that counting calories is secondary to one's long term health success? I know I have to get what to eat correct before I know how much of it to eat. When to eat it can fall under how to do IF in a way at works best for me.
bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-macro-manager-low-carb-or-fasting.html
"I recommend my clients using a VLCD rather than fasting. My interpretation of the science is that due to the consistent, repeated stimulation of protein synthesis that you get with VLCD, it is a superior approach when looking at overall improvements in body composition. However, if executed properly, both these systems should result in similar fat loss. The key when choosing a VLCD or fasting is to decide which will enable you to execute most consistently and efficiently in your lifestyle."
This Ph.D. leans towards VLCD vs. IF.
Nope, sorry. I will not agree that calorie counting is secondary.6 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Gale, you need to stop turning every thread into a carb thread.
1. This thread is NOT about "not eating carbs" like you stated
2. Carbs don't "increase the chances of cancer" (not a single study isolated carbs from the standard American diet, whatever that means, to control for macronutrient consumption in isolation)
3. Low carb does is not any better or worse than any other caloric restriction method for weight loss once you move away from what works for the individual (and if you really like studies that don't control for variables, vegetarians and vegans in particular tend to have lower BMI)
4. Keto does not increase the mitochondrial density or slow down aging at its own merit, and as a matter of fact most long-lived people eat a moderate to high carb diet.
5. Carbs make you hungry, but they don't make everyone hungry and in fact for some they promote satiety. Your personal experience is not universal.
6. McDonald's sausage is as processed as McDonald's burger and is not the best choice if you are chasing "X increases cancer risk" studies.
7. No one here is "saying negative things about keto". This thread has nothing to do with keto.
8. Put those pamphlets down and stop derailing the thread. Go start your own and talk about carbs all you want.
This is an excellent summary of a major derailment attempt with some great points @amusedmonkey10 -
ChristinaOne21 wrote: »Intermittent Fasting might help with your Weight Loss too...
I have just started with My Fitness Pal logging food and calorie counting for 1200 calories a day.
I've also stopped smoking, lowered alcohol intake from my daily glass (or 4) of wine, to just 1 this week and I'm doing 10,000 steps a day for Steptember (sometimes
)
It may sound like I am the motivated type (that has fallen off the band wagon), but I am far from that normally and more of a couch potato - in fact lying in bed working on my computer has been my comfort zone for a long time.
However, I discovered Intermittent Fasting online (see links below) and I have been doing the 16/8 - that's 16 hours no food and 8 hours of eating and it is working miracles! I am also incorporating the Primal eating type lifestyle to a point - more protein, less carbs, lots of veggies, no packaged chemical ridden crap, avoiding sugar apart from some fruit.
Our Primal ancestors probably didn't eat breakfast, let alone 6 meals a day, or take a snack everywhere with them and I've learnt that these type of diets just don't cut it for me. I simply become food obsessed and always hungry.
I have found IF actually does work for me. I am not hungry during the fasting time at all and tend to eat a lot less in the 8 hour window I've allocated myself. Now I do 2 meals rather than 3 and find I don't need anything in between, so taking in a lot less calories overall. I also have motivation to make all of the above lifestyle changes for the first time in many years and energy to get up and moving. And I'm sleeping better as well - insomnia and sleep apnoea has been an ongoing nightmare for me, but maybe the change in overall eating patterns has helped with this.
I am only just on the start of my journey, so I am not sure whether I will have the willpower to keep it up - my willpower with anything is usually non existent. However, I have set myself a goal of 30kgs (66 pounds) to lose by April and right now I am determined to make it happen - hence the blog post to keep me accountable!
I'm only about a week in now and I have already found that eating the IF way has set me free from a life long struggle where I have been eating emotionally - when bored, lonely, depressed, grieving, self-sabotaging relationships - heck even when everything was fine and I was happy I'd still eat. I was never really listening to my body’s own hunger or satiety signals and just eating because I could and because food was readily available. I was not stopping when full - to the point I would go back for second or even third helpings and then feel ill from overeating - but be hungry again in a few hours.
I'm ditching that cycle for good!
Now I only get an empty, growly tummy just before 1pm when my eating window is about to start, the first few days was more often - but I discovered that being hungry didn't mean I had to give in to it. And then the hunger pangs would disappear after a few minutes.
What a great feeling of control and empowerment I have today. And what an unusual feeling that is for me.
I recommend reading up on Intermittent Fasting and giving it a go if you want to lose weight or improve your overall wellbeing - it's proven to be great for a myriad of other health reasons too.
It's free; nobody is making money out of a diet gimmick, pills and protein shakes, or selling you a book - you can google everything you need to know; humans have been doing it for centuries...
Did I mention it costs nothing?
In fact it may save you money, especially if you end up eating less like me and drinking more water - rather than wine
And even if you don't reduce your calorie intake or increase your exercise output your body will still get a few hours of fat burning time, so even the most sedentary couch potato has a chance of success!
Thanks for reading and hope this blog helps others like me
Christina
Some good articles that have helped me understand the benefits of IF:
http://jamesclear.com/the-beginners-guide-to-intermittent-fasting
http://mamasweeds.com/weight-loss/intermittent-fasting-for-weig
Christina, it is fabulous that you are getting such great results with Intermittant Fasting! Now you are in touch with your body's hunger signals, eating food for nutrition, and stopping eating emotionally. It is nice you are not hungry during the 8 hour window and have subsequently cut back on calories. I just learned about it this past year and it helps me to eat 2 meals in the 8 hour window also. There are some IF groups you can join for support if you need it.2
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