Candida Infection

135

Replies

  • SCoil123
    SCoil123 Posts: 2,110 Member
    goldthistime wrote: »
    I bounce around in my view of "woo". I'd much rather follow the advice of professional organizations who have reviewed the studies and come to thoughtful conclusions, than people who are using anecdotal evidence, intuition and word of mouth. But I also recognize that it takes a while for studies to get done (longer still if there's no benefactor willing to fund those studies), so it's possible that some of this "woo" will eventually be recognized as valuable.

    At the same time I watched a friend with cancer follow what I considered to be dangerous diet advice from another friend (who saw naturopaths almost exclusively), and witnessed the worst possible outcome. I think she straight up starved to death, but at the very least, her malnourishment was a factor in her death. It made me angry. "Woo" can be like a religion for some, emotionally defended, rather than based on evidence. It can be dangerous and deserves to be examined closely when it comes up in the forums.

    Back to Candida in the gut (and I might expand the discussion to include it's frequent friend increased permeability (aka leaky gut)). I just skimmed, but it seemed to be a factor primarily for people who have intestinal inflammation and ulcers. I have some struggles in this area so it's quite interesting to me. I didn't see any mention of these problems in the OPs post (although the fact that her dr ordered the test makes me wonder whether she has also had some problems). Perhaps bloating infers inflammation. I certainly bloat up horribly when I'm having problems.

    I have hashimotos as well as a history of GERD, gallstones, and ulcers. Originally I went in suspecting gallbladder issues because I felt sick similarly to how it felt when my first gallstones were discovered. My health has been problematic for a number of years with auto immune issues that started around the time I turned 30.
  • CorneliusPhoton
    CorneliusPhoton Posts: 965 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    I didn't go back to look who it was but whomever said they thought candida had been debunked - seriously? Good grief! No. Canfida is real and it causes real health issues for a lot of people.
    I was one of those debunking candida. Candida overgrowth or candida hypersensivity are both complete nonsense. It was a diagnosis invented in 1986 by Dr. Willaim Crook which he wrote aboute in a book called The Yeast Connection. The only problem is there is no evidence to support the diagnosis. But hey, why let pesky facts get in the way of making a quick buck conning the uninformed.

    There are real candida infections such as thrush, vulvovaginits (yeast infection), and candidiasis of the skin and nails which are all easily treatable with topical antifungals, and sometimes oral antifungals, and are generally minor. There are more serious candida infections - invasive candidiasis can infect various organs and candidemia which infects the blood. Both are extremely serious and requires hospitalization and are almost exclusively found in immunocompromised individuals. If not treated appropriately then the patient will most die.

    So, yes, candida is real but not the kind that is "diagnosed" by alternative quacks. The ones "diagnosed" by alternative quacks is a fake illness, which is amongst the many fake illnesses that they love to diagnose so much.

    I don't think that it's a huge stretch to believe that with our complex gut biome, imbalances happen and that one of those imbalances could be an overgrowth of one of naturally occurring yeast. Our diets have huge impacts on our microbiota. If people get a treatment that helps their symptoms, great! I don't see why you are so offended by this. Do you know what OP's doctor's qualifications are?
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    edited October 2016
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    That's okay. Give it enough time and medicine will catch up with the rest of what people call "woo" around here. They usually do. :wink:
    Another baseless assertion from you. Shall we take a look at what the science says about woo.

    Let's start with homeopathy. Complete and utter nonsesnse, for it to work it would have to break many of the laws of physics and biology. It has failed miserably when studied:
    https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/192/8/homeopathy-what-does-best-evidence-tell-us
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/45/45.pdf

    Lets move on to acupuncture, another abysmal failure when studied.
    http://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2013&issue=06000&article=00025&type=Fulltext

    How about reiki, pure quackery.
    http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/187390. This study is a study of therapeutic touch which is closely related to reiki. It is also by the youngest person to ever get published in JAMA.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21531671
    We can design instruments that can measure movements that last only a millionth of a second and distances that are a billionth of a billionth of a meter, http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1328533, yet we cant detect this imaginary human "energy field". Look up the definition of energy and field, these quacks can't even get their scientific terminology correct.

    Shall I go on?

    So, @ronjsteele1, since you are all knowing and have claimed to be a researcher extraordinaire, please do tell me what "woo" will medicine need to catch up with? This ought to be good as I will prove you wrong yet again. I'm sure you'll have your usual long winded ranting excuse as to why you can't produce any evidence.

    I'll repeat it another time because it needs to be heard. There is a department within the NIH, now called the NCCIH. For 30yrs about 2billion taxpayer dollars have been wasted studying pseudoscience, fairies, and magic. Every study has been negative, every study ends up concluding "need for further research." 2 billion taxpayer dollars wasted on nothing. Its time to put it to bed. If it works its called medicine, everything else is pseudoscience and should be discarded.
    http://physics.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Measuring-Mythology.pdf

  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    edited October 2016
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    I don't think that it's a huge stretch to believe that with our complex gut biome, imbalances happen and that one of those imbalances could be an overgrowth of one of naturally occurring yeast.
    This article discusses candida colonization people with preexisting GI conditions. It is not discussing imbalances. It has nothing to do with the fake diagnosis of candida overgrowth.

    Our diets have huge impacts on our microbiota. If people get a treatment that helps their symptoms, great! I don't see why you are so offended by this. Do you know what OP's doctor's qualifications are?
    I'm offended by pseudoscience. If someone has a real candida infection then they need real medical help or they could die. There is no evidence that any special diet will cure a real candida infection.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Well the proof will be in the pudding John. We'll see if @SCoil123 symptoms clear up after this... I think there's a place for both natural and conventional medicines in this day and age.
    Too many doctors like to pump their patients full of drugs and send them on their way, never really addressing the route cause of their illness.
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,214 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    goldthistime wrote: »
    Some interesting reading in the other Candida thread. You'll see that I'm not alone in my initial skepticism.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10453674/candida-overgrowth-in-gut/p1

    But I also checked for confirmation that medical doctors are recognizing intestinal Candida overgrowth and they definitely are:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3163673/

    I'd only heard of it in the sketchiest of conditions previously.

    Medical Doctors have always recognized candida infections, they just don't recognize the fake illness know as candida hypersensitivity. That study doesn't prove that the fake disease candida overgrowth is real, it discusses real candida infections in patients with GI conditions. The fake candida as diagnosed by quacks is sub-clinical and can be diagnosed by having any or all of a myriad of very vague symptoms.

    We're in agreement.

  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,214 Member
    edited October 2016
    johnwelk wrote: »
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    I don't think that it's a huge stretch to believe that with our complex gut biome, imbalances happen and that one of those imbalances could be an overgrowth of one of naturally occurring yeast.
    This article discusses candida colonization people with preexisting GI conditions. It is not discussing imbalances. It has nothing to do with the fake diagnosis of candida overgrowth.

    Our diets have huge impacts on our microbiota. If people get a treatment that helps their symptoms, great! I don't see why you are so offended by this. Do you know what OP's doctor's qualifications are?
    I'm offended by pseudoscience. If someone has a real candida infection then they need real medical help or they could die. There is no evidence that any special diet will cure a real candida infection.

    Let me amend my statement to be that we are mostly in agreement. The OP has indeed had some GI issues (she just mentioned ulcers) and she says it was a medical doctor that diagnosed and is treating her. Why does her intestinal Candida overgrowth have to be severe? Is it not possible that it's low level? And if so, is it really so improbable that reducing simple carbs from your diet for a period of time will change your flora?

    Otoh, I know someone personally who couldn't stick to a diet and was diagnosed by a naturopath as having leaky gut and intestinal yeast and WAS able to lose weight by following "Dr's orders", but I don't believe a word of it. I think she just needed the firm belief in the wisdom of this low carb diet in order to adhere.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    edited October 2016
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »

    Are you guys sure? Is an antifungal similar to antibiotics? If so, they recommend to take a probiotic whilst taking antibiotics, but something like 12 hours apart, otherwise yes, the antibiotics will kill the good bacteria of the probiotics along with the bad.

    Anti-fungals and antibiotics are different. However, that rule still applies to both. A probiotic will kill off both AF's and ABX's. Good question!

    There is nothing alive in an antifungal medicine to kill. Antifungals are chemicals.

    I was typing in a hurry and said it backwards. I've been running late all stinking day and was typing faster then my thoughts were forming. My apologies.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    I didn't go back to look who it was but whomever said they thought candida had been debunked - seriously? Good grief! No. Canfida is real and it causes real health issues for a lot of people.
    I was one of those debunking candida. Candida overgrowth or candida hypersensivity are both complete nonsense. It was a diagnosis invented in 1986 by Dr. Willaim Crook which he wrote aboute in a book called The Yeast Connection. The only problem is there is no evidence to support the diagnosis. But hey, why let pesky facts get in the way of making a quick buck conning the uninformed.

    There are real candida infections such as thrush, vulvovaginits (yeast infection), and candidiasis of the skin and nails which are all easily treatable with topical antifungals, and sometimes oral antifungals, and are generally minor. There are more serious candida infections - invasive candidiasis can infect various organs and candidemia which infects the blood. Both are extremely serious and requires hospitalization and are almost exclusively found in immunocompromised individuals. If not treated appropriately then the patient will most die.

    So, yes, candida is real but not the kind that is "diagnosed" by alternative quacks. The ones "diagnosed" by alternative quacks is a fake illness, which is amongst the many fake illnesses that they love to diagnose so much.

    So her stool test that shows she actually tested positive for candida in her intestines/gut (done by an MD) was a lie? Yeah. Okay.
  • SCoil123
    SCoil123 Posts: 2,110 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    goldthistime wrote: »
    I bounce around in my view of "woo". I'd much rather follow the advice of professional organizations who have reviewed the studies and come to thoughtful conclusions, than people who are using anecdotal evidence, intuition and word of mouth. But I also recognize that it takes a while for studies to get done (longer still if there's no benefactor willing to fund those studies), so it's possible that some of this "woo" will eventually be recognized as valuable.

    At the same time I watched a friend with cancer follow what I considered to be dangerous diet advice from another friend (who saw naturopaths almost exclusively), and witnessed the worst possible outcome. I think she straight up starved to death, but at the very least, her malnourishment was a factor in her death. It made me angry. "Woo" can be like a religion for some, emotionally defended, rather than based on evidence. It can be dangerous and deserves to be examined closely when it comes up in the forums.

    Back to Candida in the gut (and I might expand the discussion to include it's frequent friend increased permeability (aka leaky gut)). I just skimmed, but it seemed to be a factor primarily for people who have intestinal inflammation and ulcers. I have some struggles in this area so it's quite interesting to me. I didn't see any mention of these problems in the OPs post (although the fact that her dr ordered the test makes me wonder whether she has also had some problems). Perhaps bloating infers inflammation. I certainly bloat up horribly when I'm having problems.

    I have hashimotos as well as a history of GERD, gallstones, and ulcers. Originally I went in suspecting gallbladder issues because I felt sick similarly to how it felt when my first gallstones were discovered. My health has been problematic for a number of years with auto immune issues that started around the time I turned 30.
    So you only equate your slowed weight loss to "candida infection" and not the other host of health issues you have?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    Where did I say that? Oh yeah. ..I didn't lol. It may be related as it contributes to bloat and digestive issues for some. I won't really know how it relates until I complete the medication in a few weeks.
  • CorneliusPhoton
    CorneliusPhoton Posts: 965 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    This article discusses candida colonization people with preexisting GI conditions. It is not discussing imbalances. It has nothing to do with the fake diagnosis of candida overgrowth.

    No, this article discusses candida over-colonization in people with GI conditions. It states in the very first 3 sentences that colonization is common and usually benign, but that high-level colonization is associated with problems. So, you don't like the word "imbalance?" Ok fine. Let's call it over-colonization.

    I'm offended by pseudoscience. If someone has a real candida infection then they need real medical help or they could die. There is no evidence that any special diet will cure a real candida infection.

    Yea, infection / candidemia is a different situation. But I don't think we are talking about that.

    Colonization = common and usually benign
    Over-colonization, overgrowth, dysbiosis = problematic
    Infection and tissue invasion, candidemia = acute.


    You said above that candida overgrowth was "nonsense". Where is your supporting information? This has nothing to do with reiki or homeopathy so put the strawmen away. Please support your specific assertion that candida overgrowth is nonsense.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25786900
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3163673/

    I agree that there is little hard evidence to support that dietary changes will cure it, but it is plausible given our knowledge about dysbiosis (just in case you don't believe in that either https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24217034), and there is no evidence to the contrary. Neither is there evidence that a change in diet or taking probiotics in an effort to relieve a patient's symptoms is harmful.
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    You said above that candida overgrowth was "nonsense". Where is your supporting information?
    Let's get on the same page, as I stated above there are real candida infections. Then there is fake candida diagnosis often called one of the following: candida hypersensitivity, chronic candida, or candida overgrowth. It was invented by a doctor in the 80's and featured in a book called The yeast connection. Problem is that he had no evidence to support his pet hypothesis.
    It's not my responsibility to prove it doesn't exist as you can't prove a negative. It's up to those who claim that it exists to prove it exists. The following link does a very good job breaking it down.

    http://theskinnywhitebuddha.blogspot.com/2012/04/candida-hoax.html?m=1
    This has nothing to do with reiki or homeopathy so put the strawmen away.
    Not a strawman at all, the poster I was responding to made a rediculous claim about modern medicine, all I was doing was pointing out how very, very, very wrong she was.


  • SCoil123
    SCoil123 Posts: 2,110 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    You said above that candida overgrowth was "nonsense". Where is your supporting information?
    Let's get on the same page, as I stated above there are real candida infections. Then there is fake candida diagnosis often called one of the following: candida hypersensitivity, chronic candida, or candida overgrowth. It was invented by a doctor in the 80's and featured in a book called The yeast connection. Problem is that he had no evidence to support his pet hypothesis.
    It's not my responsibility to prove it doesn't exist as you can't prove a negative. It's up to those who claim that it exists to prove it exists. The following link does a very good job breaking it down.

    http://theskinnywhitebuddha.blogspot.com/2012/04/candida-hoax.html?m=1
    This has nothing to do with reiki or homeopathy so put the strawmen away.
    Not a strawman at all, the poster I was responding to made a rediculous claim about modern medicine, all I was doing was pointing out how very, very, very wrong she was.


    What does any of that have to do with my original post about being diagnosed by my MD with an intestinal infection?
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    johnwelk wrote: »
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    You said above that candida overgrowth was "nonsense". Where is your supporting information?
    Let's get on the same page, as I stated above there are real candida infections. Then there is fake candida diagnosis often called one of the following: candida hypersensitivity, chronic candida, or candida overgrowth. It was invented by a doctor in the 80's and featured in a book called The yeast connection. Problem is that he had no evidence to support his pet hypothesis.
    It's not my responsibility to prove it doesn't exist as you can't prove a negative. It's up to those who claim that it exists to prove it exists. The following link does a very good job breaking it down.

    http://theskinnywhitebuddha.blogspot.com/2012/04/candida-hoax.html?m=1
    This has nothing to do with reiki or homeopathy so put the strawmen away.
    Not a strawman at all, the poster I was responding to made a rediculous claim about modern medicine, all I was doing was pointing out how very, very, very wrong she was.


    What does any of that have to do with my original post about being diagnosed by my MD with an intestinal infection?

    You are correct. I was respnding to another post that made rhe erroneous claim that medicine will eventually catch up to alternative medicine. You will also notice that I never said anything about you or your diagnosis. I only realized that I hijacked this thread when Corneliusphoton asked me why I would question the diagnosis of your MD, which i never did. At that point I realized my mistake of not going back to the beginning of the thread and seeing what it was about. I am sorry, please accept my apology.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    goldthistime wrote: »
    Are the "doctors" mentioned above naturopaths? The last I'd heard about the Candida intestinal infections that naturopaths were diagnosing was that it was considered bunk by the scientific community. Is this no longer the case?

    From a microbiological perspective - yes. Actual infections are extremely serious and result in death if not treated immediately.
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
    edited October 2016
    Just checking in here to reply to the people dealing with medical issues. I was extremely incorrectly overtreated with very powerful antibiotics. Then was given another med in reaction to the side effects. It's a long story. But, I was very injured and debilitated. I went from professional dancer to sitting in a chair for six months. I couldn't lie down to sleep (it increased nerve pain in my face), I couldn't eat normally. I didn't know I had developed malabsorption to certain carbohydrates. I was getting sicker and sicker. I was referred to a Rheumatologist because I developed somewhat elevated rheumatoid antibody factor (an inconclusive result, not positive or negative). She helped guide me through the medical injury. Kept a food diary. Tracked my diet and symptoms. Changed my diet. Now, I am doing very well recovering and back to dancing again. I also am taking part in a microbiome study. I don't know about Candida. But, I had dysbiosis of some sort. I was put on a waiting list (I live in Canada) to see a GI specialist. It's a year long wait. I have a couple months left on my wait. I do have scarring in my small intestines (showed on mri).
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    BinaryPulsar wrote: »
    Just checking in here to reply to the people dealing with medical issues. I was extremely incorrectly overtreated with very powerful antibiotics. Then was given another med in reaction to the side effects. It's a long story. But, I was very injured and debilitated. I went from professional dancer to sitting in a chair for six months. I couldn't lie down to sleep (it increased nerve pain in my face), I couldn't eat normally. I didn't know I had developed malabsorption to certain carbohydrates. I was getting sicker and sicker. I was referred to a Rheumatologist because I developed somewhat elevated rheumatoid antibody factor (an inconclusive result, not positive or negative). She helped guide me through the medical injury. Kept a food diary. Tracked my diet and symptoms. Changed my diet. Now, I am doing very well recovering and back to dancing again. I also am taking part in a microbiome study. I don't know about Candida. But, I had dysbiosis of some sort. I was put on a waiting list (I live in Canada) to see a GI specialist. It's a year long wait. I have a couple months left on my wait. I do have scarring in my small intestines (showed on mri).

    You may have better luck contacting a university medical microbiology department. Physician training offers only 1 semester of microbiology and even infectious disease specialists focus on pathogenic strains. You need a medical microbiologist - someone who specializes in gastrointestinal flora in humans/swine. Are you able to do some medical tourism and visit the US?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,916 Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    goldthistime wrote: »
    I bounce around in my view of "woo". I'd much rather follow the advice of professional organizations who have reviewed the studies and come to thoughtful conclusions, than people who are using anecdotal evidence, intuition and word of mouth. But I also recognize that it takes a while for studies to get done (longer still if there's no benefactor willing to fund those studies), so it's possible that some of this "woo" will eventually be recognized as valuable.

    At the same time I watched a friend with cancer follow what I considered to be dangerous diet advice from another friend (who saw naturopaths almost exclusively), and witnessed the worst possible outcome. I think she straight up starved to death, but at the very least, her malnourishment was a factor in her death. It made me angry. "Woo" can be like a religion for some, emotionally defended, rather than based on evidence. It can be dangerous and deserves to be examined closely when it comes up in the forums.

    Back to Candida in the gut (and I might expand the discussion to include it's frequent friend increased permeability (aka leaky gut)). I just skimmed, but it seemed to be a factor primarily for people who have intestinal inflammation and ulcers. I have some struggles in this area so it's quite interesting to me. I didn't see any mention of these problems in the OPs post (although the fact that her dr ordered the test makes me wonder whether she has also had some problems). Perhaps bloating infers inflammation. I certainly bloat up horribly when I'm having problems.

    I have hashimotos as well as a history of GERD, gallstones, and ulcers. Originally I went in suspecting gallbladder issues because I felt sick similarly to how it felt when my first gallstones were discovered. My health has been problematic for a number of years with auto immune issues that started around the time I turned 30.
    So you only equate your slowed weight loss to "candida infection" and not the other host of health issues you have?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    Where did I say that? Oh yeah. ..I didn't lol. It may be related as it contributes to bloat and digestive issues for some. I won't really know how it relates until I complete the medication in a few weeks.
    GERD would be your number one issue for digestive issues and not the likely "candida" diagnosis. The point is, don't jump onto a band wagon where the "woo" cause is the issue because of some weak information being put out.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

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