why does sugar make us fat
Replies
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tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us) Cutting out those foods that cause your blood sugar to spike helps you keep an even blood sugar level. So when you *crash* after a sugar surge and you eat more you eat more than you truly need.
I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
I prefer *not* to have to play this mental strength game with my body. I find foods that satisfy me for longer periods of time and I don't get hungry and I don't over eat except when in social situations. For me the foods that satisfy the most are protein rich foods. I am *not* one of those people that can eat large amounts of fiber and have it satisfy me. I have tried. Meat, cheese, nuts and fruit keep me from feeling hungry meal to meal. That's why those kind of diets work for me.
Falling off the wagon and eating sugar for me is like a newly recovered Alcoholic walking into a bar. It's ugly and generally inadvisable. I can't explain it and I know so many on here will tout how ridiculous these theories are. BUT Know thy self, and to thine own self be true.
If you are hungry 2hrs after eating 200 calories of starchy carbs but 4hrs after eating 200 calories after eating protien & fat you're totally chill guess what that means for you... Stay The F* away from sugar and starch
do you also avoid protein, because insulin spikes?6 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us) Cutting out those foods that cause your blood sugar to spike helps you keep an even blood sugar level. So when you *crash* after a sugar surge and you eat more you eat more than you truly need.
I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
I prefer *not* to have to play this mental strength game with my body. I find foods that satisfy me for longer periods of time and I don't get hungry and I don't over eat except when in social situations. For me the foods that satisfy the most are protein rich foods. I am *not* one of those people that can eat large amounts of fiber and have it satisfy me. I have tried. Meat, cheese, nuts and fruit keep me from feeling hungry meal to meal. That's why those kind of diets work for me.
Falling off the wagon and eating sugar for me is like a newly recovered Alcoholic walking into a bar. It's ugly and generally inadvisable. I can't explain it and I know so many on here will tout how ridiculous these theories are. BUT Know thy self, and to thine own self be true.
If you are hungry 2hrs after eating 200 calories of starchy carbs but 4hrs after eating 200 calories after eating protien & fat you're totally chill guess what that means for you... Stay The F* away from sugar and starch
Satiety is a huge role in weight maintenance and strategy, but satiety is vastly different. I am a volume eater, and starches are one an integral part of my strategy. My normal weekend breakfast is 5 eggs, bacon, ham slices, peppers, onions, spinach, cheese and salsa. And I am frequently hungry a few hours later. But if I reduce the amount of eggs and add roasted potatoes, I can go longer periods another 1 to 2 hours in fact.
Comparatively, a 9oz sirloin and 300g potato fills me up more than a 16 to 20 oz ribeye and 300g potato. And the former comes at a fraction of the cost in terms of calories.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »You know for a fact research has been posted on MFP that it does do that. In nutrition ketosis ketone production doesn't taper off.
It's the initial production of additional ketones that cause the increase in EE. During the period, body fat is not lost either.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.long
"The greater success of LC diets than of the conventional low-fat HC diet with respect to weight loss has been attributed to the maintenance of previous REE during active weight loss and to reduced hunger (17), but it is unclear whether these factors are related to dietary carbohydrate restriction or to increased dietary protein. Weight-adjusted REE increased in both diet groups over the 6-wk trial, but blood β-hydroxybutyrate concentrations were not correlated with REE (r = −0.014, P = 0.921), which indicates that the protein content of the diet, rather than the severity of the carbohydrate restriction, likely contributed to the elevations in REE. These data support the contention that calorie-reduced diets high in protein facilitate weight loss, in part, by preserving the metabolic rate (7, 8, 18). Fat-free mass, the major determinant of REE (19), was not correlated with REE in the present trial and cannot explain the observed increases in metabolism. Furthermore, exercise and activity levels remained constant in all study participants during the trial. It is possible that the high-protein diets increased body protein turnover, which increased peptide bond synthesis as well as hydrolysis, processes that require ATP (20)."
In summary, differentiating between ketogenic and nonketogenic LC diets is an important consideration for clinical practice because ketogenic diets have been associated with adverse metabolic events including elevated LDL (26) and cardiac complications (36, 37). In the current study, the KLC diet did not offer any significant metabolic advantage over the NLC diet. Both diets were effective at reducing total body mass and insulin resistance, but, because blood ketones were directly related to LDL-cholesterol concentrations and because inflammatory risk was elevated with adherence to the KLC diet, severe restrictions in dietary carbohydrate are not warranted. Furthermore, the NLC diet was associated with feelings of high energy and a more favorable mood profile than was the KLC diet. Practitioners should advise patients who wish to follow an LC diet to choose low-fat meats and dairy products, 8–9 daily servings of fruit and vegetables, and a dietary carbohydrate limit near 100–125 g/d. Patients should know that there is no apparent metabolic advantage associated with ketosis during dieting.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Ok, and lets see if we give a person a high carb diet, the way it was intended with whole foods being most of the carbs, and less than 10% total fat and see if the same thing.2 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us) Cutting out those foods that cause your blood sugar to spike helps you keep an even blood sugar level. So when you *crash* after a sugar surge and you eat more you eat more than you truly need.
I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
I prefer *not* to have to play this mental strength game with my body. I find foods that satisfy me for longer periods of time and I don't get hungry and I don't over eat except when in social situations. For me the foods that satisfy the most are protein rich foods. I am *not* one of those people that can eat large amounts of fiber and have it satisfy me. I have tried. Meat, cheese, nuts and fruit keep me from feeling hungry meal to meal. That's why those kind of diets work for me.
Falling off the wagon and eating sugar for me is like a newly recovered Alcoholic walking into a bar. It's ugly and generally inadvisable. I can't explain it and I know so many on here will tout how ridiculous these theories are. BUT Know thy self, and to thine own self be true.
If you are hungry 2hrs after eating 200 calories of starchy carbs but 4hrs after eating 200 calories after eating protien & fat you're totally chill guess what that means for you... Stay The F* away from sugar and starch
Why do I have to stay away from carbs?1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I could easily hit a significant caloric surplus every day with unlimited cheese, macadamia nuts and almonds. 100% guaranteed I'd gain more than 6 pounds in 6 months.
Keto is not magical. CI<CO still matters.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I could easily hit a significant caloric surplus every day with unlimited cheese, macadamia nuts and almonds. 100% guaranteed I'd gain more than 6 pounds in 6 months.
Keto is not magical. CI<CO still matters.
back in my hefty days my main sources of overeating was pizza, mozzarella sticks, Philly cheese steaks, etc...I was not a big sugar consumer, but I still got to a point where I needed to drop about 45 pounds...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I'm pretty sure hunks of sharp cheddar washed down with pints of whole milk was one of the primary contributions to my weight gain. Like i seriously used to sit down to 1/4 to 1/2 Lb of sharp cheddar and a pint of whole milk for desert...3 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us)
I appreciate the "at least some of us," because I find that carbs fill me up much better than fat, and I never overate due to hunger issues anyway.I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
This sort of thing drives me crazy, since when do you have to be low carb to be sensible about breakfast choices. I also would be hungry again soon if I had a croissant for breakfast (which is basically fat and refined carbs, of course). Of course, I also would be hungry before lunch with nothing but two boiled eggs, which is about 140 calories, and only 12-13 g protein (about 90 calories from fat). On the other hand, I have a variety of favored breakfasts, one low carb and two low fat and high carb that all keep me easily full until a very late lunch if I want (I eat around 6 am, so until 2 or so would be fine, although I normally like to eat at 12). All three (and I think this is what matters for me) include about 30 g of protein and vegetables/fruit (and related fiber and volume).
Eating carbs doesn't mean eating mainly refined carbs + fat and nothing else for a meal, that's silly (and choosing to eat that way and complaining that you aren't satiated also would be silly).
So long as you understand that those of us who consume some sugar (added or otherwise) are not, as a result, starving all the time, then we have no argument. (Well, not about that, at least.)2 -
Wheelhouse I think you might be, being purposely obtuse. @pslulemon was much more succinct when he/she said Satiety is a key roll.
If you are satiated by carbs... eat them. I am not. I just get hungrier and eat more. However if I keep to meat and fresh veggies I stay satiated longer. So I stay the F* away from carbs. Its my strategy for staying satiated. I fight hunger, by not letting myself get hungry.
It is entirely possible to have some evolution going on here that might be the cause of this. I have three great grand mothers that are Comanche and grew upon the reservations in Oklahoma. (I knew them personally) So *maybe* my genetics aren't wired to handle starchy carbs as well as others. I don't know the explanation. I just know that when I have a diet that is full of lean protein, fresh vegetables, fruits and nuts I do better.
The minute I start adding white starch (potatos, sugar, bread, pasta, rice) to my diet I become Bruce from finding Nemo. If you don't yay you.0 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Wheelhouse I think you might be, being purposely obtuse. @pslulemon was much more when he/she said Satiety is a key roll.
If you are satiated by carbs... eat them. I am not. I just get hungrier and eat more. However if I keep to meat and fresh veggies I stay satiated longer. So I stay the F* away from carbs.
It is entirely possible to have some evolution going on here that might be the cause of this. I have three great grand mothers that are Comanche and grew upon the reservations in Oklahoma. (I knew them personally) So *maybe* my genetics aren't wired to handle starchy carbs as well as others. I don't know the explanaiton. I just know that when I have a diet that is full of lean protien, fresh vegetables, fruits and nuts I do better.
The minute I start adding white starch (potatos, sugar, bread, pasta, rice) to my diet I become Bruce from finding Nemo. If you don't yay you.
so all those insulin spikes from protein do nothing, but the carb insulin spike is the culprit...got ya...7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I intentionally didn't throw much cheese into my sample day listed above...that seemed like cheating
I can eat a wheel of triple cream brie by myself, then follow it up with some manchego and blue. Some days I might invite salami and prosciutto to my cheese party, but other occasions they're unwanted distractions from my cheese-eating. My wedding reception was in a cheese shop, where I was surrounded by all the family, friends, and food I love. Cheese is glorious.
Since we're rehashing all the same stuff about sugar and carbs for the millionth time, let's play a game. What cheese would be most responsible for you gaining 6+ lbs in 6 months? I'll start:
Meet Vacherin Mont d'Or. Although given that it's expensive and only available around winter, maybe this is a poor choice. Also I'd have to find out if it's as good scraped up with carrot sticks as it is with bread or crackers. Hrm.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »chocolate_owl wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
While that sounds like hell to me and I don't run pointless experiments on my body, here's an example of a LCHF day in the portions it would take for me to feel moderately full:
3 eggs, scrambled with milk and cheese, cooked in oil, 2 slices of bacon: 550 calories
6 oz pork loin w/ roasted broccoli topped with parmesan: 450 calories
2 oz cashews: 320 calories
6 oz salmon w/ leeks, pan-fried in butter, served with wine: 650 calories
Total: 1970 calories, 46g carbs
My TDEE: 1800 calories
Would gain about 8 lbs in 6 months if I ate like that every day. Now, cook with less fat, replace the bacon with a tortilla, skip the snack of cashews, and add rice with dinner? I'm under my TDEE and much more satiated... Which is why I eat the way I do.
But not if that WOE moved your TDEE moved higher as research indicates that would be expected.
TDEE cannot be changed by WOE, not in any significant way to make a difference. It is changed by doing either more activity or less. There is no way in existance TDEE is changed just by eating less/more of a macro. None. How can that even be remotely possible?
Key words: Energy expenditure.
Full Definition of expenditure
1
: the act or process of expending <an expenditure of energy>
2
: something expended : disbursement, expense <income should exceed expenditures>
2 -
I got fat eating big portions of Mexican food packed with plenty of fat.GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
This past weekend, I was still well short of my weekly calorie goal, but was uncomfortably stuffed after a dinner that had plenty of carbs (BIG sides of corn and rice). I turned to a large handful of mixed nuts (~80% calories from fat) that evening to help me get my calories up. It was one of the most calorie dense foods I had on hand. I also had some chocolate candy, which, while it has plenty of sugar, still had most of it's calories from fat.
0 -
cerise_noir wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »chocolate_owl wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
While that sounds like hell to me and I don't run pointless experiments on my body, here's an example of a LCHF day in the portions it would take for me to feel moderately full:
3 eggs, scrambled with milk and cheese, cooked in oil, 2 slices of bacon: 550 calories
6 oz pork loin w/ roasted broccoli topped with parmesan: 450 calories
2 oz cashews: 320 calories
6 oz salmon w/ leeks, pan-fried in butter, served with wine: 650 calories
Total: 1970 calories, 46g carbs
My TDEE: 1800 calories
Would gain about 8 lbs in 6 months if I ate like that every day. Now, cook with less fat, replace the bacon with a tortilla, skip the snack of cashews, and add rice with dinner? I'm under my TDEE and much more satiated... Which is why I eat the way I do.
But not if that WOE moved your TDEE moved higher as research indicates that would be expected.
TDEE cannot be changed by WOE. It is changed by doing either more activity or less. There is no way in existance TDEE is changed just by eating less/more of a macro. None. How can that even be remotely possible?
Key words: Energy expenditure.
Full Definition of expenditure
1
: the act or process of expending <an expenditure of energy>
2
: something expended : disbursement, expense <income should exceed expenditures>
Thermic effect of food. But unless you're planning to kill your kidneys with an all-protein diet or try to replace all your fats with alcohol, TEF is going to be insignificant between different, non-extreme WOEs.
(Not to mention that carbs have a higher TEF than fat, which would seem to make Gale's claim backwards...)0 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Wheelhouse I think you might be, being purposely obtuse. @pslulemon was much more succinct when he/she said Satiety is a key roll.
If you are satiated by carbs... eat them. I am not. I just get hungrier and eat more. However if I keep to meat and fresh veggies I stay satiated longer. So I stay the F* away from carbs. Its my strategy for staying satiated. I fight hunger, by not letting myself get hungry.
It is entirely possible to have some evolution going on here that might be the cause of this. I have three great grand mothers that are Comanche and grew upon the reservations in Oklahoma. (I knew them personally) So *maybe* my genetics aren't wired to handle starchy carbs as well as others. I don't know the explanation. I just know that when I have a diet that is full of lean protein, fresh vegetables, fruits and nuts I do better.
The minute I start adding white starch (potatos, sugar, bread, pasta, rice) to my diet I become Bruce from finding Nemo. If you don't yay you.
You say you are not satiated by carbs, but don't have issues with fresh vegetables and fruits which are basically all carbs. And simple carbs/sugar at that.2 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I intentionally didn't throw much cheese into my sample day listed above...that seemed like cheating I can eat a wheel of triple cream brie by myself, then follow it up with some manchego and blue. Some days I might invite salami and prosciutto to my cheese party, but other occasions they're unwanted distractions from my cheese-eating. My wedding reception was in a cheese shop, where I was surrounded by all the family, friends, and food I love. Cheese is glorious.
Since we're rehashing all the same stuff about sugar and carbs for the millionth time, let's play a game. What cheese would be most responsible for you gaining 6+ lbs in 6 months? I'll start:
Meet Vacherin Mont d'Or. Although given that it's expensive and only available around winter, maybe this is a poor choice. Also I'd have to find out if it's as good scraped up with carrot sticks as it is with bread or crackers. Hrm.
I used to eat that cheese with wieners. As low carb as it gets. Definitely over 1000 calories. For the cheese alone.0 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »chocolate_owl wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
While that sounds like hell to me and I don't run pointless experiments on my body, here's an example of a LCHF day in the portions it would take for me to feel moderately full:
3 eggs, scrambled with milk and cheese, cooked in oil, 2 slices of bacon: 550 calories
6 oz pork loin w/ roasted broccoli topped with parmesan: 450 calories
2 oz cashews: 320 calories
6 oz salmon w/ leeks, pan-fried in butter, served with wine: 650 calories
Total: 1970 calories, 46g carbs
My TDEE: 1800 calories
Would gain about 8 lbs in 6 months if I ate like that every day. Now, cook with less fat, replace the bacon with a tortilla, skip the snack of cashews, and add rice with dinner? I'm under my TDEE and much more satiated... Which is why I eat the way I do.
But not if that WOE moved your TDEE moved higher as research indicates that would be expected.
TDEE cannot be changed by WOE. It is changed by doing either more activity or less. There is no way in existance TDEE is changed just by eating less/more of a macro. None. How can that even be remotely possible?
Key words: Energy expenditure.
Full Definition of expenditure
1
: the act or process of expending <an expenditure of energy>
2
: something expended : disbursement, expense <income should exceed expenditures>
Thermic effect of food. But unless you're planning to kill your kidneys with an all-protein diet or try to replace all your fats with alcohol, TEF is going to be insignificant between different, non-extreme WOEs.
(Not to mention that carbs have a higher TEF than fat, which would seem to make Gale's claim backwards...)
Even going from absolute minimum recommendations to bodybuilder levels of protein only gives you 20-30 or so extra calories.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I used to eat blocks of cheese when i was younger. I love cheese. I easily binge on it.3 -
I can't believe I read the whole thing! Time for ice cream!5
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chocolate_owl wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I intentionally didn't throw much cheese into my sample day listed above...that seemed like cheating I can eat a wheel of triple cream brie by myself, then follow it up with some manchego and blue. Some days I might invite salami and prosciutto to my cheese party, but other occasions they're unwanted distractions from my cheese-eating. My wedding reception was in a cheese shop, where I was surrounded by all the family, friends, and food I love. Cheese is glorious.
Since we're rehashing all the same stuff about sugar and carbs for the millionth time, let's play a game. What cheese would be most responsible for you gaining 6+ lbs in 6 months? I'll start:
Meet Vacherin Mont d'Or. Although given that it's expensive and only available around winter, maybe this is a poor choice. Also I'd have to find out if it's as good scraped up with carrot sticks as it is with bread or crackers. Hrm.
Not playing -- it's a good way to work up an appetite. :-) That cheese looks so amazing, though!0 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us) Cutting out those foods that cause your blood sugar to spike helps you keep an even blood sugar level. So when you *crash* after a sugar surge and you eat more you eat more than you truly need.
I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
I prefer *not* to have to play this mental strength game with my body. I find foods that satisfy me for longer periods of time and I don't get hungry and I don't over eat except when in social situations. For me the foods that satisfy the most are protein rich foods. I am *not* one of those people that can eat large amounts of fiber and have it satisfy me. I have tried. Meat, cheese, nuts and fruit keep me from feeling hungry meal to meal. That's why those kind of diets work for me.
Falling off the wagon and eating sugar for me is like a newly recovered Alcoholic walking into a bar. It's ugly and generally inadvisable. I can't explain it and I know so many on here will tout how ridiculous these theories are. BUT Know thy self, and to thine own self be true.
If you are hungry 2hrs after eating 200 calories of starchy carbs but 4hrs after eating 200 calories after eating protien & fat you're totally chill guess what that means for you... Stay The F* away from sugar and starch
I had to reply to this because you mentioned the boiled eggs.
I'm all about eating what keeps me from being hungry too, so I hear you.
But two boiled eggs wouldn't do it.
One boiled egg and a banana?
Now you're talking.
That's my go-to breakfast, every day. I need that starch/sugar/fiber with my protein and fat to feel full.
I am convinced that satiety/hunger is about far more than the issue of blood sugar spiking and that the appeal to that as the issue is a big red herring since there are quite a few of us posting on this very thread who need that starch with our meals to feel full. Granted, a starch/protein combo isn't going to spike your blood sugar as much as a plain carb meal would, but most meals are not plain carb and it's still going to spike it a decent amount.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »tmoneyag99 wrote: »Blood sugar spikes then deep valleys spur on hunger (at least in some of us) Cutting out those foods that cause your blood sugar to spike helps you keep an even blood sugar level. So when you *crash* after a sugar surge and you eat more you eat more than you truly need.
I have seen it in my self. I have noticed that when I eat 2 boiled eggs for breakfast I can make it to lunch without feeling like I'm going to knaw my arm off. BUT when I have a piece of pumkin bread from Sbux or a croisant, you can set your watch on it, 2 hours later I will be hungry again.
I prefer *not* to have to play this mental strength game with my body. I find foods that satisfy me for longer periods of time and I don't get hungry and I don't over eat except when in social situations. For me the foods that satisfy the most are protein rich foods. I am *not* one of those people that can eat large amounts of fiber and have it satisfy me. I have tried. Meat, cheese, nuts and fruit keep me from feeling hungry meal to meal. That's why those kind of diets work for me.
Falling off the wagon and eating sugar for me is like a newly recovered Alcoholic walking into a bar. It's ugly and generally inadvisable. I can't explain it and I know so many on here will tout how ridiculous these theories are. BUT Know thy self, and to thine own self be true.
If you are hungry 2hrs after eating 200 calories of starchy carbs but 4hrs after eating 200 calories after eating protien & fat you're totally chill guess what that means for you... Stay The F* away from sugar and starch
I had to reply to this because you mentioned the boiled eggs.
I'm all about eating what keeps me from being hungry too, so I hear you.
But two boiled eggs wouldn't do it.
One boiled egg and a banana?
Now you're talking.
That's my go-to breakfast, every day. I need that starch/sugar/fiber with my protein and fat to feel full.
I am convinced that satiety/hunger is about far more than the issue of blood sugar spiking and that the appeal to that as the issue is a big red herring since there are quite a few of us posting on this very thread who need that starch with our meals to feel full. Granted, a starch/protein combo isn't going to spike your blood sugar as much as a plain carb meal would, but most meals are not plain carb and it's still going to spike it a decent amount.
This is what I had for lunch and this salad would not have been same if I left the potatoes out. 3 hours later and I'm still stuffed.
http://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-salad-nicoise-recipes-from-the-kitchn-190232
3 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Wheelhouse I think you might be, being purposely obtuse. @pslulemon was much more succinct when he/she said Satiety is a key roll.
If you are satiated by carbs... eat them. I am not. I just get hungrier and eat more. However if I keep to meat and fresh veggies I stay satiated longer. So I stay the F* away from carbs. Its my strategy for staying satiated. I fight hunger, by not letting myself get hungry.
It is entirely possible to have some evolution going on here that might be the cause of this. I have three great grand mothers that are Comanche and grew upon the reservations in Oklahoma. (I knew them personally) So *maybe* my genetics aren't wired to handle starchy carbs as well as others. I don't know the explanation. I just know that when I have a diet that is full of lean protein, fresh vegetables, fruits and nuts I do better.
The minute I start adding white starch (potatos, sugar, bread, pasta, rice) to my diet I become Bruce from finding Nemo. If you don't yay you.
Oh, I edited my post to be more diplomatic and also because the way I read your post you didn't deserve a full response. So YES, I was. Now if you want to talk about satiety and the role of a small 200Kcal meal on hunger, ok sure we can discuss that because 200KCals of anything won't do it for me and eating a few hours later just doesn't bother me. If it bothers you then that's fine it's your body and you feed it how you believe it should be fed and I'll feed mine the way I feel it should be and we can compare notes.
BTW when you reframed as "I" rather than "You" stay away from those foods it works much better because I don't immediately think I'm being ordered to do something.0 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I intentionally didn't throw much cheese into my sample day listed above...that seemed like cheating I can eat a wheel of triple cream brie by myself, then follow it up with some manchego and blue. Some days I might invite salami and prosciutto to my cheese party, but other occasions they're unwanted distractions from my cheese-eating. My wedding reception was in a cheese shop, where I was surrounded by all the family, friends, and food I love. Cheese is glorious.
Since we're rehashing all the same stuff about sugar and carbs for the millionth time, let's play a game. What cheese would be most responsible for you gaining 6+ lbs in 6 months? I'll start:
Meet Vacherin Mont d'Or. Although given that it's expensive and only available around winter, maybe this is a poor choice. Also I'd have to find out if it's as good scraped up with carrot sticks as it is with bread or crackers. Hrm.
You've got my attention!0 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »andreakreymborg wrote: »If you really want to know sugar makes you fat because of the chemical reaction that happens when it is processed by our livers. This process stops the I'm full message getting to our brain. So our brain sends out the message "eat more food and don't do anything we are starving".
Search sweet poison in YouTube. It stooped me in my tracks.
@andreakreymborg welcome to MFP forums.
Sugar and processed carbs also makes my fuel gauge read EMPTY all the time.
I would be interested hear from anyone that can eat until they are full that can gain more 6 pounds in the next 6 months eating no sugar and no more than 50 grams of whole carbs daily.
Considering fats don't fill me up, I could easily do that. Just because you can't do something, doesn't mean others can't. I got fat from high amounts of fats in my diet... especially meat.
Unlimited cheese alone would make it super easy for me.
I intentionally didn't throw much cheese into my sample day listed above...that seemed like cheating I can eat a wheel of triple cream brie by myself, then follow it up with some manchego and blue. Some days I might invite salami and prosciutto to my cheese party, but other occasions they're unwanted distractions from my cheese-eating. My wedding reception was in a cheese shop, where I was surrounded by all the family, friends, and food I love. Cheese is glorious.
Since we're rehashing all the same stuff about sugar and carbs for the millionth time, let's play a game. What cheese would be most responsible for you gaining 6+ lbs in 6 months? I'll start:
Meet Vacherin Mont d'Or. Although given that it's expensive and only available around winter, maybe this is a poor choice. Also I'd have to find out if it's as good scraped up with carrot sticks as it is with bread or crackers. Hrm.
this month? Either baked Camembert or a really strong blue cheese melted on toast...0 -
The mind boggles reading through this information, I'm just going to eliminate all added sugars, keep to water, tea no sugar. Plenty of vegetables and fruit in moderation.1
-
traceyroy54 wrote: »The mind boggles reading through this information, I'm just going to eliminate all added sugars, keep to water, tea no sugar. Plenty of vegetables and fruit in moderation.
Were there specific things you were still confused about?
Obviously you're free to choose whatever approach you feel will work best for you, but I'm curious what it was that made you feel this was the best option? Is this for weight loss? Do you have a medical reason to restrict sugars? Do you feel this will be a long term sustainable approach?
I personally couldn't choose a way of eating that prevented me from enjoying a piece of birthday cake with my children, or ice cream on a hot summer day... fortunately I understand the science behind how sugar is processed in our body and don't see a compelling reason to completely exclude added sugar from my life.13 -
I really just want to tryWinoGelato wrote: »traceyroy54 wrote: »The mind boggles reading through this information, I'm just going to eliminate all added sugars, keep to water, tea no sugar. Plenty of vegetables and fruit in moderation.
Were there specific things you were still confused about?
Obviously you're free to choose whatever approach you feel will work best for you, but I'm curious what it was that made you feel this was the best option? Is this for weight loss? Do you have a medical reason to restrict sugars? Do you feel this will be a long term sustainable approach?
I personally couldn't choose a way of eating that prevented me from enjoying a piece of birthday cake with my children, or ice cream on a hot summer day... fortunately I understand the science behind how sugar is processed in our body and don't see a compelling reason to completely exclude added sugar from my life.
I just want to try and eliminate it sugar, I will still enjoy the piece of birthday cake etc, just be more aware I guess weight loss is important to me.0
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