why does sugar make us fat

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  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    traceyroy54 wrote: »
    Why?

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1379072/pdf/gut00585-0041.pdf

    everydayhealth.com/columns/therese-borchard-sanity-break/ways-cultivate-good-gut-bacteria-reduce-depression/

    oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2015/jun/fat-sugar-cause-bacterial-changes-may-relate-loss-cognitive-function

    huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/gut-bacteria-brain-cognit_n_7644484.html

    health.harvard.edu/family-health-guide/what-you-eat-can-fuel-or-cool-inflammation-a-key-driver-of-heart-disease-diabetes-and-other-chronic-conditions

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21807932

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25066177

    This is some science research that I have read that seems to apply in my case. Gut flora is about 80% of our immune system and sugar tends to support overgrowth for the bad flora. Triggering a leaking gut with sugar can often be a forerunner to obesity.
  • vingogly
    vingogly Posts: 1,785 Member
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    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    because it's addictive. JK. :D

    It's also Eeevvviiilll. I know because the Sugar Demon told me. >:) Obviously everyone here who claims to have eaten sugar and still lost large amounts of weight is just messin' with us.
  • vingogly
    vingogly Posts: 1,785 Member
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    CALS0CCERBEAR87 wrote: »
    Realistically, just don't OVERDO it (and this is subjective based on your body/height/goals, etc.)...Honestly, u can eat pizza, cheeseburgers and brownies everyday and lose weight consistently every week (with or without exercise--obviously exercise helps more)...I do agree that some foods are harder to resist eating more of compared to others (ie. french fries vs sweet potatoes)...but that's something you have to learn to control/strategize (esp if u struggle--like if u live alone, instead of buying an entire pizza and cooking it in your oven and putting the leftover in the fridge, you could just go somewhere like Costco and order a couple slices, eat them there and leave).

    ^^ This is why I don't keep ice cream or candy in the house as a rule. If I want a chocolate bar, I'll drive to the store and pick one up. If I want ice cream, I'll drive to the ice cream parlor and get a dish. If I can do without, there's always tomorrow.

    It's all about knowing yourself. It's the same reason why some persons with alcohol problems won't keep it in the house.
    One thing that really, really hindered my progress when I was obese was setting up this perfect healthy diet plan and inevitably "failing" with "taboo foods" like a slice of pizza or a cookie and then thinking "well, i messed up today or this week, might as well eat the entire pizza or stack of oreos...and start over tomorrow"... this is very dangerous (it's all mental--it's not even real hunger) and won't work in the long run. Eat a couple slices of pizza or have that medium Starbucks frappe (a reasonable amount) and then put your foot down for the day.

    Or make up for your indulgence today by choosing a light lunch or skipping snacks tomorrow.

    There are no taboo foods. And if there are no taboo foods, there are no cheat days -- just days when you make different choices. The other part of the secret to success is choosing and eating food mindfully rather than just shoveling it in. If I choose to indulge in ice cream, I'll do so without guilt or regrets. Tomorrow's another day.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    edited October 2016
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    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    Jake, you spend a lot of time being "devil's advocate." Not just in this thread, but in general.

    Why not find a more productive use for your time than trying to create conflict, then saying, "Just kidding, don't really feel that way."

    Feels more like trolling to me.
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Makes sense as an argument. So what would you say to the people that say it is due to sugar in the "low fat" foods that took off in the 90's? Also people would argue that US and UK are not the most obese, there are small islands and developing countrys that are most obese and this is not due to overindulgence?
    Again..just asking the question and seeing opinions

    People like to scapegoat. Admitting personal responsibility is not very pleasant (and doesn't sell as well). What makes me scratch my head is that such people assume when low fat guidelines were established everyone magically adhered to them. Look no further than today. Who, other than some of the health conscious crowd, actually follows the dietary guidelines? People did not get fat because they were all good obedient health conscious scouts. I assure you, in the 90s we ate plenty of fat. I know I did.

    x8en1nrjoacn.png

    As for the islands, I believe you mean the Samoan islands among others? They eat a lot of energy rich foods. If you look at the Samoan diet, heavy use of coconut cream and other coconut products as well as fried foods, mutton fat..etc despite most of their intake coming from whole foods (although convenience foods are becoming more and more available and they are getting more and more sedentary). The caloric density of their cuisine makes it pretty easy to overeat even if you don't down pounds of food. This only proves that regardless of the type of food, sugar, fat, junk, clean, whatever, if you overeat you get fat. It's that simple.


    yi8sd6kpc6c6.png

    This is what gets me. I don't know a single person who adheres to all the dietary guidelines. So saying that the guidelines caused the issue is a bit far fetched.

    The argument that seems to be made a lot is that you are exactly right and people are not reading the guidelines and got fat from the sugar in products that were said to be low-fat. Fat was the original target and everyone believed that fat makes you fat - seemed so logical lol.
    I see what people are saying about behavioural trends and that millions of people got lazy and over ate. I was wondering if anyone bought into the accusation that the "low fat craze" of the 90's and 2000's with its high sugar contributed to the high obesity rates?

    You're looking through a black and white lense. Sugar was "evil" even back then. Of course high sugar foods contributed, so did high fat foods, so did meats. You shouldn't be looking at any single macronutrient or food item as a culprit, you need to look at it as a symptom. The world overall is eating more sugar. What does it mean? You look at other foods and notice the world overall is eating more of almost everything. This means the world overall is eating more calories. Combine that with reduced activity, and the math will magically click. No, I don't think the low fat craze contributed to the high obesity rate anymore than the low carb craze will contribute to the high obesity rates in the future. If you keep trying to single out nutrients or foods you can reach pretty funny conclusions, such as "vegetables cause obesity" because veetable consumption has increased over the years.

    Just to be clear - I read this article earlier today which many of you will know of https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
    I wasn't stating my opinion - I was being a bit 'devils advocate' and asking what the smart people here would argue to various points that people generally throw about. I don't really know the cause hence my reading and asking here. I'm not demonsing food or finding a culprit - finding what people think mate

    I have invoked a discussion based on something I read. Haven't argued with anyone or discredited any persons views

    I think what @cmriverside is saying is, you are establishing a pattern. A pattern of what is unclear, but a pattern none the less...

    There is a moderator above in this thread. If I have done anything wrong then I apologise, but I was just trying to see what people thought of the common arguments that sugar is at fault. I for a long time have believed that sugar is the cause of obesity

    I didn't eat much sugar (well, added sugar) when I was getting fat (or really throughout most of my adult life), as I've always been a person who prefers savory. It is really quite possible to get fat without eating lots of sugar.

    I tend to think that we consume too much sugar on average (but the number isn't at all consistent across the population), but that this is a result of the changes that led to obesity (changing eating patterns, food being so available, among other things) and not the cause. Remove the sugary items but leave everything else the same, and the results would be the same.

    The one possible exception I might grant is sugary beverages in that I think for many they add calories that probably would not be replaced with food, since they aren't perceived as food by many consuming them. (But I've not had a sugary soda since around age 16, when I was thin and drank them only on occasion, and still managed to get fat, whereas some who drink them consume a perfectly reasonable number of calories, of course.) Even so, I would say that this too is driven by culture and habits and availability rather than being itself the cause, as soda was plenty available when I was a kid and yet people didn't (at least in the circles I was familiar with) drink it all day. Soda consumption is dropping, anyway.

    Yeah the wheels are coming off the theory that sugar is to blame. I have never had a sweet tooth and rarely have sweets and puddings. I noticed when I changed my diet to fresh foods instead of ready meals that I started craving sweets. I didnt realise how much sugar I was unwittingly eating. Cutting out ready meals has helped me but then I also cut beers and increased my exercise so could of been a number of things that made me bigger.
    The science is interesting and im trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks for your response.

    Have you considered this might be psychological? When you go on a diet you focus on food, including the foods you didn't focus on in the past because they had no rules attached to them. I find myself thinking about food in general more often now than I did when I was morbidly obese. Brain is a funny thing.

    A random anecdote: last month I was talking to an old friend who was my roommate in college. She was given a diet by a nutritionist. It was a 1 week "kickstart" program that had 3 breakfast choices, 4 lunch choices, and 7 dinner choices that she could mix and match plus vegetables for snacks, then she would get a different weekly plan next week. She was complaining about the lack of variety for breakfast and lunch. Back when we were in college, we ate the same 5-7 dishes for 5 years with the occasional odd change and we thought we were living the life and having the best time. That 1 diet week had more variety than we did in 5 years.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 5,948 Member
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    chocolate_owl wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    traceyroy54 wrote: »
    Why?

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1379072/pdf/gut00585-0041.pdf

    everydayhealth.com/columns/therese-borchard-sanity-break/ways-cultivate-good-gut-bacteria-reduce-depression/

    oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2015/jun/fat-sugar-cause-bacterial-changes-may-relate-loss-cognitive-function

    huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/gut-bacteria-brain-cognit_n_7644484.html

    health.harvard.edu/family-health-guide/what-you-eat-can-fuel-or-cool-inflammation-a-key-driver-of-heart-disease-diabetes-and-other-chronic-conditions

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21807932

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25066177

    This is some science research that I have read that seems to apply in my case. Gut flora is about 80% of our immune system and sugar tends to support overgrowth for the bad flora. Triggering a leaking gut with sugar can often be a forerunner to obesity.

    Link #1: "A diet containing refined foods results in excess energy intake - that is, it is fattening. Average calorie intake and obesity are related to the incidence of large bowel cancer' '° and gall stones."
    Faulty correlation. I can have refined sugar in my diet without eating excess calories, therefore I won't gain weight. Also, it explicitly states obesity is the forerunner to gut issues, not the other way around. All the study concretely concludes is that it takes you longer to poop on a high-sugar diet.

    Link #2: What does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #3: Once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #4: Write-up on the same study in links 2 & 3: once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #5: Common dietary guidelines, not saying anything specific about sugar, gut flora, or obesity.

    Link #6: Study done on mice, can't access the whole thing to verify the procedure and discussion supports the abstract.

    Link #7: Seems to discuss how to reduce inflammation and gut issues in people who are already obese, does not indicate that inflammation and gut issues cause obesity at all.

    You beat me to it...
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
    edited October 2016
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    "This is some science research that I have read that seems to apply in my case." is what I stated. I do not know if it applies universally or not.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    Leaky gut isn't a diagnosis, either...it's a symptom of some other medical issue. Why Gale continues to harp on the wrong issue is hard to understand.

    webmd.com/digestive-disorders/features/leaky-gut-syndrome#1

    It is true MD's may not be trained on the subject but gut permeability is a real health concern. My leaky gut symptoms fully resolved after being off sugar and all forms of all grains for six months and have stayed resolved without failure for even one day for the past 18 months.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    chocolate_owl wrote: »

    Link #1: "A diet containing refined foods results in excess energy intake - that is, it is fattening. Average calorie intake and obesity are related to the incidence of large bowel cancer' '° and gall stones."
    Faulty correlation. I can have refined sugar in my diet without eating excess calories, therefore I won't gain weight. Also, it explicitly states obesity is the forerunner to gut issues, not the other way around. All the study concretely concludes is that it takes you longer to poop on a high-sugar diet.

    Link #2: What does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #3: Once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #4: Write-up on the same study in links 2 & 3: once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #5: Common dietary guidelines, not saying anything specific about sugar, gut flora, or obesity.

    Link #6: Study done on mice, can't access the whole thing to verify the procedure and discussion supports the abstract.

    Link #7: Seems to discuss how to reduce inflammation and gut issues in people who are already obese, does not indicate that inflammation and gut issues cause obesity at all.

    "This is some science research that I have read that seems to apply in my case." is what I stated. Where or not this applies to others I do not know.

    But it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

    I'm allergic to wasps, for example. Would linking to medical sites discussing this - because it applies to me - be appropriate here as well?
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    chocolate_owl wrote: »

    Link #1: "A diet containing refined foods results in excess energy intake - that is, it is fattening. Average calorie intake and obesity are related to the incidence of large bowel cancer' '° and gall stones."
    Faulty correlation. I can have refined sugar in my diet without eating excess calories, therefore I won't gain weight. Also, it explicitly states obesity is the forerunner to gut issues, not the other way around. All the study concretely concludes is that it takes you longer to poop on a high-sugar diet.

    Link #2: What does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #3: Once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #4: Write-up on the same study in links 2 & 3: once again, what does this have to do with obesity?

    Link #5: Common dietary guidelines, not saying anything specific about sugar, gut flora, or obesity.

    Link #6: Study done on mice, can't access the whole thing to verify the procedure and discussion supports the abstract.

    Link #7: Seems to discuss how to reduce inflammation and gut issues in people who are already obese, does not indicate that inflammation and gut issues cause obesity at all.

    "This is some science research that I have read that seems to apply in my case." is what I stated. Where or not this applies to others I do not know.

    But it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

    I'm allergic to wasps, for example. Would linking to medical sites discussing this - because it applies to me - be appropriate here as well?

    The subject is "why does sugar make us fat". Read the links for the indirect role sugar can play in obesity that does not directly involve calories.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    Leaky gut isn't a diagnosis, either...it's a symptom of some other medical issue. Why Gale continues to harp on the wrong issue is hard to understand.

    webmd.com/digestive-disorders/features/leaky-gut-syndrome#1

    It is true MD's may not be trained on the subject but gut permeability is a real health concern. My leaky gut symptoms fully resolved after being off sugar and all forms of all grains for six months and have stayed resolved without failure for even one day for the past 18 months.

    I'll see your webmd link and raise you one science based medicine one:

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/leaky-bowel/

    :)

    What is it about a site that is into slamming medical professionals that makes you think it is science based other than the words in its name.

    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21248165
  • imajollyroger
    imajollyroger Posts: 9 Member
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    cerise_noir wrote: »
    imajollyroger wrote: »
    Sugar and carbs absolutely make you fat! What do you think beer belly is? There's no fat in beer. The body converts sugar/carbs into fat if it can't utilize it immediately for fuel. Doesn't matter if excess calories. I can run a calorie deficit and gain weight if I consume too many carbs without using them. Sugar and carbs also make you more hungry like eating Chinese food. Your insulin gets high which blocks your satiety signals to your brain. Your body won't burn fat until the glycogen is depleted. First it uses glycogen, then it uses fat as reserve.

    No they don't.

    I eat sugar. By your logic I should be gaining weight, not losing it. Please explain how I've lost a little over 90lbs, @imajollyroger? I'm all ears/eyes.

    Also, fat does NOT make anyone fat. That's old school weight loss woo.

    You know what actually makes all mammals fat?

    Excess calories.
    1st that's wonderful that you've lost 90 lbs! I whole support any means and method that people find that works for themselves to lose weight or become healthy. We all have our personal experiences and perspectives. To answer your question though, I would explain it that by cutting your calories, you actually cut your carbs too. Likewise, when humans consume exces calories, we are most likely consuming excess carbs.

  • mullaneywt
    mullaneywt Posts: 28 Member
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    Because you eat too much of it.
  • imajollyroger
    imajollyroger Posts: 9 Member
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    Chef_Barbell wrote: »
    imajollyroger wrote: »
    Sugar and carbs absolutely make you fat! What do you think beer belly is? There's no fat in beer. The body converts sugar/carbs into fat if it can't utilize it immediately for fuel. Doesn't matter if excess calories. I can run a calorie deficit and gain weight if I consume too many carbs without using them. Sugar and carbs also make you more hungry like eating Chinese food. Your insulin gets high which blocks your satiety signals to your brain. Your body won't burn fat until the glycogen is depleted. First it uses glycogen, then it uses fat as reserve.

    No... Just no.
    To which part? Please explain

  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
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    jeshutt wrote: »
    I've read a lot of research that indicates carbs are the main culprit - particularly refined carbs like sugar and white flour - and that the 'calories in/calories out model doesn't work. Many of you clearly disagree. Point me to the research, please.

    If this is the case, then how did I lose over 90lbs and continue to lose weight? I consume a lot of carbs, especially white ones and sugar.... @jeshutt I count calories and macros. Of course we disagree. We adhere to the science of weight loss and have personally experienced weight loss with CICO. Remember, CICO is all about energy balance. Eating less energy (calories) than your body needs to maintain its current weight results in weight loss. And this doesn't only apply to humans, either. A slight flaw some find isn't a flaw with CICO at all, but an underestimating of CI (estimating calories, using cups and spoons, not logging correctly) and/or overestimating CO (highly inflated calorie burns).

    Can you post links of your research? I wasn't able to find anything backing up the claims in your post through Google scholar.
  • chocolate_owl
    chocolate_owl Posts: 1,695 Member
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    imajollyroger wrote: »
    cerise_noir wrote: »
    imajollyroger wrote: »
    Sugar and carbs absolutely make you fat! What do you think beer belly is? There's no fat in beer. The body converts sugar/carbs into fat if it can't utilize it immediately for fuel. Doesn't matter if excess calories. I can run a calorie deficit and gain weight if I consume too many carbs without using them. Sugar and carbs also make you more hungry like eating Chinese food. Your insulin gets high which blocks your satiety signals to your brain. Your body won't burn fat until the glycogen is depleted. First it uses glycogen, then it uses fat as reserve.

    No they don't.

    I eat sugar. By your logic I should be gaining weight, not losing it. Please explain how I've lost a little over 90lbs, @imajollyroger? I'm all ears/eyes.

    Also, fat does NOT make anyone fat. That's old school weight loss woo.

    You know what actually makes all mammals fat?

    Excess calories.
    1st that's wonderful that you've lost 90 lbs! I whole support any means and method that people find that works for themselves to lose weight or become healthy. We all have our personal experiences and perspectives. To answer your question though, I would explain it that by cutting your calories, you actually cut your carbs too. Likewise, when humans consume exces calories, we are most likely consuming excess carbs.

    When I consume excess calories these days it's usually in fat (cheese, charcuterie) and alcohol (wine). When I was losing 30 lbs, I didn't cut carbs very much - I cut calorie-dense, low-nutrition items like potato chips and cheesy crackers (fat+carbs) and beer (alcohol+carbs), and I reduced how much oil I used in cooking (pure fat). I wasn't eating all that much sugar to begin with. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
  • imajollyroger
    imajollyroger Posts: 9 Member
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    chocolate_owl wrote: »
    imajollyroger wrote: »
    cerise_noir wrote: »
    imajollyroger wrote: »
    Sugar and carbs absolutely make you fat! What do you think beer belly is? There's no fat in beer. The body converts sugar/carbs into fat if it can't utilize it immediately for fuel. Doesn't matter if excess calories. I can run a calorie deficit and gain weight if I consume too many carbs without using them. Sugar and carbs also make you more hungry like eating Chinese food. Your insulin gets high which blocks your satiety signals to your brain. Your body won't burn fat until the glycogen is depleted. First it uses glycogen, then it uses fat as reserve.

    No they don't.

    I eat sugar. By your logic I should be gaining weight, not losing it. Please explain how I've lost a little over 90lbs, @imajollyroger? I'm all ears/eyes.

    Also, fat does NOT make anyone fat. That's old school weight loss woo.

    You know what actually makes all mammals fat?

    Excess calories.
    1st that's wonderful that you've lost 90 lbs! I whole support any means and method that people find that works for themselves to lose weight or become healthy. We all have our personal experiences and perspectives. To answer your question though, I would explain it that by cutting your calories, you actually cut your carbs too. Likewise, when humans consume exces calories, we are most likely consuming excess carbs.

    When I consume excess calories these days it's usually in fat (cheese, charcuterie) and alcohol (wine). When I was losing 30 lbs, I didn't cut carbs very much - I cut calorie-dense, low-nutrition items like potato chips and cheesy crackers (fat+carbs) and beer (alcohol+carbs), and I reduced how much oil I used in cooking (pure fat). I wasn't eating all that much sugar to begin with. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
    Hi Owl, but those potato chips, even though low nutrition/high calorie were carbs, the crackers were carbs, and the beer was carbs. Now you are consuming less carbs and more fat. This is what has worked for me also and a lot of research is validating.

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