Question about all calories being equal
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say?
(Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
They can know but simply not care enough.
And in many cases they can know and care and still not be able to adhere in the long term.
You can be quite intelligent and motivated and still fail at successful weight management because it's incredibly complex (and effing difficult) from a behavioral standpoint.
Energy balance is somewhat of a mechanistic explanation but it doesn't address the multitude of factors influencing food consumption habits or activity.7 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
Alright, I'll humor you and assume the following about all people who became obese:
- Weight control was their number one priority
- They wanted to control their weight and were willing to make the sacrifices needed for weight control
- Had no underlying physical, emotional or mental issues or had healthy coping mechanisms
- Had perfect motivation, willpower, and adherence
- Were perfect specimens who valued delayed gratification over instant gratification
Alas.. they just had no idea how CICO works.
Fine, let's assume that. Now an obese person who was ignorant learned how weight loss works and lost a lot of weight. Does that mean they stopped being ignorant and learned how things works or do they continue being ignorant just because someday in the past they allowed themselves to gain weight? If that's the case, you are basically asserting that you are completely ignorant about how fitness works because at some point in the past you didn't lift weights.5 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.
You are drastically oversimplifying obesity.
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.
You are drastically oversimplifying obesity.
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
To really simplify it; you have to be in a caloric surplus. You put the food in your mouth. Therefore you are the cause.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.
You are drastically oversimplifying obesity.
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
To really simplify it; you have to be in a caloric surplus. You put the food in your mouth. Therefore you are the cause.
and by really simplifying you are willfully ignoring a multitude of influencing factors9 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.
That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.
That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.
Would you take muscle gain advice from
Lyle Mcdonald?6 -
trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.
You are drastically oversimplifying obesity.
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
To really simplify it; you have to be in a caloric surplus. You put the food in your mouth. Therefore you are the cause.
Just because I got overweight doesn't mean I was an ignorant idiot with no knowledge. For a long time I admitted I knew I was over-eating but had no desire to change that. Being overweight doesn't mean you don't understand CICO, it can but for many the reasons for becoming overweight are far more complex than simply not understanding the science.
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trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
Like other have pointed that is a pretty daft statement.
I have been slim all my life. I had no idea what I was doing. I gained weight within couple of years. I'm losing it now and now I do have an idea even though I weigh more than before.
Most slim people have no idea either. However most people who have lost (regardless if they have more to lose) do have an idea.
All that goes to show that current weight and knowledge of nutrition are not connected.
It is your prejudice that is preventing you from seeing this.6 -
So I've read on here how when it comes to weightloss, all calories are equal. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. However, a friend of mine just told me that her nutritionist explained to her that this isn't so. She said that when you consume let's say, an apple, for 100 calories vs candy for 100 calories, the way your body is able to digest and break down each of these foods is different (using diff amounts of energy) there making the calories of these 2 foods not equal. Is there any merit to this idea?
Your friend is exactly right. Your body uses calories in this order:
Carbs first.
- Simple first then Complex
Then a combination of Protien and fat (usually 50/50) depending on the type of physical activity you do.
Now mind you if your blood sugar is sufficient to meet your caloric needs at the time of the calorie consumption then the sugar gets stored as fat.
If you are doing work (any type of movement) and your blood sugar levels are not sufficent your body will pull the calories from body tissues. Protien and fat. Depending on the type of work being done it could be as much as 60/40.
Your body is an amazing balancing machine. So that is why eating 1200 calories of Jelly Bellies will cause you to feel like SH!% at the end of the day and likely muscle loss. Also the blood sugar spikes and vallies in the jelly belly scenario would leave you feeling unsatisfied and your body craving more of what it needs. SO you will inherently over eat in response to your body's natural alerts to get the nutrients that it needs.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
I think that's ridiculous.
I never said that people couldn't learn. You mean that people gain fat on purpose? What I said was that at the point (many years?) when people gain 100+ lbs they obviously have no idea about CICO.
I mean that someone's individual progress or physique is not a reflection on their knowledge.
I agree with you on that point! There are many obese professors and highly praised academics in the world. However if they have good knowledge on health/fitness/human biology etc they would realise that being obese/overweight is detrimental to their health and with their knowledge would know exactly what to do.
Being obese/overweight (aside from medical conditions) is either caused by lack of knowledge or lack of willpower to change.
You are drastically oversimplifying obesity.
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
To really simplify it; you have to be in a caloric surplus. You put the food in your mouth. Therefore you are the cause.
Just because I got overweight doesn't mean I was an ignorant idiot with no knowledge. For a long time I admitted I knew I was over-eating but had no desire to change that. Being overweight doesn't mean you don't understand CICO, it can but for many the reasons for becoming overweight are far more complex than simply not understanding the science.
This is very true. Many people give up, but it is important to stay in the game. Others don't have the desire to change. I would listen to someone who was once obese and made changes and kept the weight off. Yes, there are complex reasons for becoming overweight. For me, stress was a compounding factor.
2 -
Note... Listen to @SteveCloser. I have read several of his posts and they seem to hit the nail on the head.
Satiation is a HUGE component in maintaining a caloric deficit. Hunger is a natural instinct and it is the rare person that has the level of self discipline to ignore it completely. Those people usually have eating disorders.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
And anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. It's not a title that requires any specific education, training, or certification.
Hmm. While, yes, anyone can CALL themselves one, to BE one does require many years of school and practice. Much like anyone can be a "counselor" but it takes many years and residency-like practice to be a licensed, clinical counselor.
To be a nutritionist, you must:- Earn a bachelor's degree in clinical nutrition, food service systems management, dietetics, foods and nutrition, or a related field
- Pass a competency exam
- Complete a Dietetic Internship Program
- Earn the RD or RDN credential
- Earn a state license
http://www.schools.com/visuals/how-to-become-a-nutritionist.html
Just pulling a random Harvard employee who is a campus nutritionist, she has these ADDITIONAL qualifications to be relevant, so I imagine in such a competitive field this is run of the mill, depending on the specialty:- Certified/Licensed Registered Dietitian
- NASM CPT Board Member, Massachusetts Dietetic Association
- Member, SCAN (Sports, Cardiovascular, and Wellness Nutrition) Dietary Practice Group
- Member, Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics;
- Board Certified Sports Registered Dietitian
Don't be so quick to call all nutritionists quacks. They do a lot of good in educating the public about health and wellness, weight loss, and disease prevention. Theories are created and disputed at all times, the significance of calories and how our bodies really use food - macros/micros/metabolism - being one of them.
My advice is to not make it too complicated on yourself when you're first starting out, and try to eat as nutritious as possible while not restricting food groups too heavily (if at all!). Calories in vs calories out is a great start to lose weight. Then, once you've reached that point where you'd like to drill down and play with micros/macros and see how your body responds, awesome! You don't have to run out of the gate knowing how to do all these fancy bulks/cuts/body recomp/etc.
2 -
meeshymoosh wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
And anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. It's not a title that requires any specific education, training, or certification.
Hmm. While, yes, anyone can CALL themselves one, to BE one does require many years of school and practice. Much like anyone can be a "counselor" but it takes many years and residency-like practice to be a licensed, clinical counselor.
To be a nutritionist, you must:- Earn a bachelor's degree in clinical nutrition, food service systems management, dietetics, foods and nutrition, or a related field
- Pass a competency exam
- Complete a Dietetic Internship Program
- Earn the RD or RDN credential
- Earn a state license
http://www.schools.com/visuals/how-to-become-a-nutritionist.html
Just pulling a random Harvard employee who is a campus nutritionist, she has these ADDITIONAL qualifications to be relevant, so I imagine in such a competitive field this is run of the mill, depending on the specialty:- Certified/Licensed Registered Dietitian
- NASM CPT Board Member, Massachusetts Dietetic Association
- Member, SCAN (Sports, Cardiovascular, and Wellness Nutrition) Dietary Practice Group
- Member, Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics;
- Board Certified Sports Registered Dietitian
Don't be so quick to call all nutritionists quacks. They do a lot of good in educating the public about health and wellness, weight loss, and disease prevention. Theories are created and disputed at all times, the significance of calories and how our bodies really use food - macros/micros/metabolism - being one of them.
My advice is to not make it too complicated on yourself when you're first starting out, and try to eat as nutritious as possible while not restricting food groups too heavily (if at all!). Calories in vs calories out is a great start to lose weight. Then, once you've reached that point where you'd like to drill down and play with micros/macros and see how your body responds, awesome! You don't have to run out of the gate knowing how to do all these fancy bulks/cuts/body recomp/etc.
I think the point of the post you are quoting is that in the US, nutritionist is not a standardized term and quite literally it doesn't have any educational standard.
Registered Dietician does.
Possibly different in other countries.
6 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »So I've read on here how when it comes to weightloss, all calories are equal. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. However, a friend of mine just told me that her nutritionist explained to her that this isn't so. She said that when you consume let's say, an apple, for 100 calories vs candy for 100 calories, the way your body is able to digest and break down each of these foods is different (using diff amounts of energy) there making the calories of these 2 foods not equal. Is there any merit to this idea?
Your friend is exactly right. Your body uses calories in this order:
Carbs first.
- Simple first then Complex
Then a combination of Protien and fat (usually 50/50) depending on the type of physical activity you do.
Now mind you if your blood sugar is sufficient to meet your caloric needs at the time of the calorie consumption then the sugar gets stored as fat.
If you are doing work (any type of movement) and your blood sugar levels are not sufficent your body will pull the calories from body tissues. Protien and fat. Depending on the type of work being done it could be as much as 60/40.
Your body is an amazing balancing machine. So that is why eating 1200 calories of Jelly Bellies will cause you to feel like SH!% at the end of the day and likely muscle loss. Also the blood sugar spikes and vallies in the jelly belly scenario would leave you feeling unsatisfied and your body craving more of what it needs. SO you will inherently over eat in response to your body's natural alerts to get the nutrients that it needs.
Thanks for the shoutout in your other post.
Just wanted to point out that your body doesn't have a firm order in which it uses calories.
http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Substrates.html1 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »So I've read on here how when it comes to weightloss, all calories are equal. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. However, a friend of mine just told me that her nutritionist explained to her that this isn't so. She said that when you consume let's say, an apple, for 100 calories vs candy for 100 calories, the way your body is able to digest and break down each of these foods is different (using diff amounts of energy) there making the calories of these 2 foods not equal. Is there any merit to this idea?
Your friend is exactly right. Your body uses calories in this order:
Carbs first.
- Simple first then Complex
Then a combination of Protien and fat (usually 50/50) depending on the type of physical activity you do.
Now mind you if your blood sugar is sufficient to meet your caloric needs at the time of the calorie consumption then the sugar gets stored as fat.
If you are doing work (any type of movement) and your blood sugar levels are not sufficent your body will pull the calories from body tissues. Protien and fat. Depending on the type of work being done it could be as much as 60/40.
Your body is an amazing balancing machine. So that is why eating 1200 calories of Jelly Bellies will cause you to feel like SH!% at the end of the day and likely muscle loss. Also the blood sugar spikes and vallies in the jelly belly scenario would leave you feeling unsatisfied and your body craving more of what it needs. SO you will inherently over eat in response to your body's natural alerts to get the nutrients that it needs.
Additionally to what Steven said above, sugar very rarely gets stored as fat in humans.
DNL only occurs to any significant degree in very rare dietary circumstances.
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/6/707.long?view=long&pmid=11722948
However when you consume excess carbohydrate, carb oxidation goes up and fat oxidation goes down, and so basically you store more of the fat you eat.1 -
So what gets stored as fat?
Note, I'm pretty sure every woman that followed Susan Powter in the 90s will disagree with you but I am very curious to know the science and your source.
0 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »So what gets stored as fat?
Dietary fat mostly. Extra carbs even after your body increases the amount of carbs you burn will get turned into glycogen, stored in your muscles and liver for high intensity activity and to keep your blood glucose from dropping during longer times of not eating, for example while you're asleep. And at the end of the day you will only have a net gain of fat if you're in a calorie surplus, even if at a given point, your available energy is more than needed and some gets stored. Your body will simply withdraw some of that later on during the times you're not eating and if you're in a deficit your body withdraws more than it stores and fat loss happens.2 -
Okay let's keep this simple with a hypothetic mathmatical question.
Lets say every day for the next 7 days I eat 500 calories in of my caloric requirement. Lets say 60% of my calories are coming from carbs, 30% from Protein and 10% from fat. Are you saying that my body fat increase will only be about 38 grams (0.0837757 pounds) ? side question... can you predict how much the scale will actually creep up in this scenario?0 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »So what gets stored as fat?
Note, I'm pretty sure every woman that followed Susan Powter in the 90s will disagree with you but I am very curious to know the science and your source.
I linked a study in my reply above discussing rates of De Novo Lipogenesis in humans and it includes some studies where they examine it.
Don't get me wrong, overeating calories makes you fat, it just doesn't do it by direct conversion of carbohydrate to fat.0 -
Mostly from fat. Both carbs and protein can get turned to fat, but your body simply doesn't like doing that because it needs to work more to do it while storing fats as fat is obviously much simpler. So yeah lets say of the pound-ish you gain in that week say 50% are fat from fat, 30% carbs and protein turned to fat and 20% lean mass that you gained, because you'll still gain a bit of lean mass along with fat gain too even if you're not working out. If you're working out it'll be more. Those numbers are just pulled out my *kitten* because no one can tell you exactly how much of what you gained if they don't hook you up in a metabolic chamber.1
-
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Okay let's keep this simple with a hypothetic mathmatical question.
Lets say every day for the next 7 days I eat 500 calories in of my caloric requirement. Lets say 60% of my calories are coming from carbs, 30% from Protein and 10% from fat. Are you saying that my body fat increase will only be about 38 grams (0.0837757 pounds) ? side question... can you predict how much the scale will actually creep up in this scenario?
If you eat 500 calories above your caloric requirement in a hypothetical mathematical model you will gain 1lb. Whether or not that pound consists entirely of fat will depend on a variety of factors including how well you partition nutrients, whether or not you are lifting weights, etc, but a portion of that will be fat.
I'm not sure where you're getting your calculation from though, since your fat grams would be way higher than this. You'd have to figure out how many total calories you're consuming and from that, figure out how many grams of fat. Just for a quick example you'd likely be around 2500-3000 calories per day to be in that big of a surplus which means a good 30g fat/day and that's on an ultra low fat diet.0 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.
That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.
That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.1 -
SusanMFindlay wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.
That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.
That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.
I was responding to SideSteel.0 -
SusanMFindlay wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »moishepipik wrote: »Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.
If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.
Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? (Your post made me chuckle mate)
If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.
I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....
If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
That's daft.
We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.
If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.
Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.
I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.
You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.
Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.
That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.
That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.
This reminds me of drug rehab counselors. The ones who have actually gone through drug addiction make the best and most empathetic counselors. The ones who have never had a problem, but learnt everything they know through going to school and taking courses will never, ever be able to understand the thoughts and feelings that come with addiction. Life experience trumps book smarts each and every time for me.2 -
Not everyone that goes to a nutritionist wants to lose weight so I see how 2,000 cals of junk to say "maintain" VS 2,000 of healthy food (for the most part) are NOT the same 0
-
Nutrients are key. Nutritionists will break things down to the ridiculous for lay people so it's a pure numbers game.
If you search the Twinkie diet, you'll find a professor who dieted down with full blood panels showing before and after that the blood serum vitamin levels were near perfect, but he had dieted down solely on Twinkies. Not ideal and even the professor said it's not sustainable.
Also, calorie count on packaging has an error rate of up to 30%. Yikes.
Not to mention the billions of metabolic processes individual to each person that changes the rate of nutrient uptake, and digestion speed....
Calories are calories in a lab using a bomb calorimeter but within the human body it's a narrow, fast moving target.1
This discussion has been closed.
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