Question about all calories being equal

Options
12357

Replies

  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Options
    tmoneyag99 wrote: »
    So what gets stored as fat?

    Dietary fat mostly. Extra carbs even after your body increases the amount of carbs you burn will get turned into glycogen, stored in your muscles and liver for high intensity activity and to keep your blood glucose from dropping during longer times of not eating, for example while you're asleep. And at the end of the day you will only have a net gain of fat if you're in a calorie surplus, even if at a given point, your available energy is more than needed and some gets stored. Your body will simply withdraw some of that later on during the times you're not eating and if you're in a deficit your body withdraws more than it stores and fat loss happens.
  • tmoneyag99
    tmoneyag99 Posts: 480 Member
    edited October 2016
    Options
    Okay let's keep this simple with a hypothetic mathmatical question.

    Lets say every day for the next 7 days I eat 500 calories in of my caloric requirement. Lets say 60% of my calories are coming from carbs, 30% from Protein and 10% from fat. Are you saying that my body fat increase will only be about 38 grams (0.0837757 pounds) ? side question... can you predict how much the scale will actually creep up in this scenario?
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    edited October 2016
    Options
    tmoneyag99 wrote: »
    So what gets stored as fat?

    Note, I'm pretty sure every woman that followed Susan Powter in the 90s will disagree with you but I am very curious to know the science and your source.

    I linked a study in my reply above discussing rates of De Novo Lipogenesis in humans and it includes some studies where they examine it.

    Don't get me wrong, overeating calories makes you fat, it just doesn't do it by direct conversion of carbohydrate to fat.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Options
    Mostly from fat. Both carbs and protein can get turned to fat, but your body simply doesn't like doing that because it needs to work more to do it while storing fats as fat is obviously much simpler. So yeah lets say of the pound-ish you gain in that week say 50% are fat from fat, 30% carbs and protein turned to fat and 20% lean mass that you gained, because you'll still gain a bit of lean mass along with fat gain too even if you're not working out. If you're working out it'll be more. Those numbers are just pulled out my *kitten* because no one can tell you exactly how much of what you gained if they don't hook you up in a metabolic chamber.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    Options
    tmoneyag99 wrote: »
    Okay let's keep this simple with a hypothetic mathmatical question.

    Lets say every day for the next 7 days I eat 500 calories in of my caloric requirement. Lets say 60% of my calories are coming from carbs, 30% from Protein and 10% from fat. Are you saying that my body fat increase will only be about 38 grams (0.0837757 pounds) ? side question... can you predict how much the scale will actually creep up in this scenario?

    If you eat 500 calories above your caloric requirement in a hypothetical mathematical model you will gain 1lb. Whether or not that pound consists entirely of fat will depend on a variety of factors including how well you partition nutrients, whether or not you are lifting weights, etc, but a portion of that will be fat.

    I'm not sure where you're getting your calculation from though, since your fat grams would be way higher than this. You'd have to figure out how many total calories you're consuming and from that, figure out how many grams of fat. Just for a quick example you'd likely be around 2500-3000 calories per day to be in that big of a surplus which means a good 30g fat/day and that's on an ultra low fat diet.
  • SusanMFindlay
    SusanMFindlay Posts: 1,804 Member
    Options
    DebSozo wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+

    That's daft.

    We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.

    If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.

    Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.

    I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.

    You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.

    Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.

    That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.

    That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    Options
    DebSozo wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+

    That's daft.

    We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.

    If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.

    Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.

    I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.

    You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.

    Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.

    That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.

    That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.

    I was responding to SideSteel.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Options
    DebSozo wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+

    That's daft.

    We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.

    If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.

    Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.

    I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.

    You two are both entitled to your preferences but when I think of good coaching I would look for people who are able to get results in their clients, people who would at least make some effort to incorporate evidence-based practices, and people who demonstrate a genuine care for the well-being of their clients.

    Having experience can be relevant and there's probably some value to it but there are examples of successful coaches who aren't necessarily successful at the thing they are coaching largely because the skills sets are different.

    That is true, but if the coach is teaching weight loss techniques I would feel better if the coach is in decent shape. It is a bit hypocritical to know and have the skill set and not apply it to oneself.

    That's missing the point. The person wasn't saying "I don't want a coach who is currently in good physical shape" but "A coach who has been through the process of losing weight to get to a healthy weight will understand that process/emotions/pitfalls better than a coach who has just read about it (because they were always thin)". Which is, in most cases, true.

    This reminds me of drug rehab counselors. The ones who have actually gone through drug addiction make the best and most empathetic counselors. The ones who have never had a problem, but learnt everything they know through going to school and taking courses will never, ever be able to understand the thoughts and feelings that come with addiction. Life experience trumps book smarts each and every time for me.
  • bfanny
    bfanny Posts: 440 Member
    edited October 2016
    Options
    Not everyone that goes to a nutritionist wants to lose weight so I see how 2,000 cals of junk to say "maintain" VS 2,000 of healthy food (for the most part) are NOT the same ;)
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    Options
    Nutrients are key. Nutritionists will break things down to the ridiculous for lay people so it's a pure numbers game.
    If you search the Twinkie diet, you'll find a professor who dieted down with full blood panels showing before and after that the blood serum vitamin levels were near perfect, but he had dieted down solely on Twinkies. Not ideal and even the professor said it's not sustainable.
    Also, calorie count on packaging has an error rate of up to 30%. Yikes.
    Not to mention the billions of metabolic processes individual to each person that changes the rate of nutrient uptake, and digestion speed....
    Calories are calories in a lab using a bomb calorimeter but within the human body it's a narrow, fast moving target.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    Options
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
    My my...Aren't you a *kitten* ray of sunshine?
    The thing is, I ended up losing it and continue to lose weight. I guess I am too *kitten* stupid to even understand how I did that. Derp derp. Weight loss? What is weight loss?

    I gained due to lifes hardship. Raped, hated, abused physically and emotionally, many close deaths, deep suicidal depression. I certainly am not stupid, and I certainly don't take BS. I am trying to live beyond my past.

    Are you working with a therapist?
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    Options
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
    My my...Aren't you a *kitten* ray of sunshine?
    The thing is, I ended up losing it and continue to lose weight. I guess I am too *kitten* stupid to even understand how I did that. Derp derp. Weight loss? What is weight loss?

    I gained due to lifes hardship. Raped, hated, abused physically and emotionally, many close deaths, deep suicidal depression. I certainly am not stupid, and I certainly don't take BS. I am trying to live beyond my past.

    Are you working with a therapist?
    I was. I edited my previous post to mention that I have learned to deal with my past. I am no longer that person and haven't been in a while. I'm losing weight, on meds, heavy lifting, jogging, have a lovely husband, have a vet degree and have caring people in my life.

    I mentioned what I've been through as that was my personal downfall regarding my weight.

    I am living my life and refuse to let the past bring me down. Its in the past for a reason. ;)

    The windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror right?
    If counting calories doesn't stress you out, count calories.
    If you want to not have to count, use Precision Nutrition portions guide or read Georgie Fears book "Lean Habits" or hire a PN coach.
    Send an FR if you need any help.
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
    Options
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
    My my...Aren't you a *kitten* ray of sunshine?
    The thing is, I ended up losing it and continue to lose weight. I guess I am too *kitten* stupid to even understand how I did that. Derp derp. Weight loss? What is weight loss?

    I gained due to lifes hardship. Raped, hated, abused physically and emotionally, many close deaths, deep suicidal depression. I certainly am not stupid, and I certainly don't take BS. I am trying to live beyond my past.

    Are you working with a therapist?
    I was. I edited my previous post to mention that I have learned to deal with my past. I am no longer that person and haven't been in a while. I'm losing weight, on meds, heavy lifting, jogging, have a lovely husband, have a vet degree and have caring people in my life.

    I mentioned what I've been through as that was my personal downfall regarding my weight.

    I am living my life and refuse to let the past bring me down. Its in the past for a reason. ;)

    The windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror right?
    If counting calories doesn't stress you out, count calories.
    If you want to not have to count, use Precision Nutrition portions guide or read Georgie Fears book "Lean Habits" or hire a PN coach.
    Send an FR if you need any help.
    Absolutely. I chose to live, not just to exist.

    I truly enjoy weighing my food and counting calories. I am down to my last 40 or so pounds.
    Thanks!
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+

    That's daft.

    We are talking about "knowing what you are doing" in terms of losing weight, not in terms of never gaining it. People who have never gained weight in the first place have no personal experience of losing it. If you have never had to consistently eat less than your appetite tells you to and learn all the techniques to modify that appetite in order to lose weight, you do not have the relevant experience to advise someone else who is in that situation. Never having had a problematic appetite in the first place makes you less qualified to advise, not more.

    If I want advice on how to get back on a horse, I'm not going to ask someone who's never fallen off.

    Personally, I would rather follow the lifestyle example of a fit person who never gained much weight in the first place rather than an "experienced" obese person.

    I'd want to take lessons from someone who never "fell off the horse" so to speak. Hopefully then, I wouldn't fall off to begin with.

    To point out, some of our most knowledgeable members on this board, and some of the most liked and linked threads on this board are all from former overweight people. Personally, i know a lot of ripped people that dont know anything and a lot of over weight people who know a ton. Hell half the people i have set up on plans and worked with them on training are more ripped than me. Apparently i am able to motivate others more than myself.

    People are reading my post wrong. I happily listen to formerly obese people who learned how to lose weight and have a healthy, fit lifestyle now. My point is that I would have a hard time following the advice of a serial yo yo dieter who is currently obese now albeit "experienced" in the past losing and gaining. I sometimes wonder why so many come back in a year to say that they gained it all back and then some.

    I've seen a lot of people who gain the weight back because they have eating disorders or who don't diet correctly. I've never been obese so I don't know what it feels like. Nor do I understand what it is like to be more than 20 pounds overweight. I personally am interested in losing weight and keeping it off. So far I've lost 10 pounds and have 10 more to lose.

    I lose very slowly so the 10 pounds have been hard won. It is fine if others feel differently than me or approach life differently. We all make our own decisions to find our way. It is very hard work to lose weight so I admire everyone who did it.

    I got a lot of bad dieting advice from "experienced" dieters. I Since then I've learned my mistakes, have gotten healthier and feel better, and am ready to tackle the last 10. I think that the last 10 will take a concerted effort on my part to bump up my activity level. I don't want to lower my calories because I don't have a big deficit and I do make sure to eat a healthy diet.

    Right now I'm turning more in the direction of getting fit and beach ready. So I'm not as interested in losing at any cost but want to gain muscles and sculpt my shape over this next year. I'm hoping that is attainable.

    I joined MFP trying to get advice to become fit. I had been on another diet system that was 1200 calories and slowed me down and made me unwell. Thankfully in the 6 months that I've been here I learned about macros, how to reverse diet, maintain, and recomp from various lovely people. I am thankful for MFP or I would still be suffering.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    Options
    96% of people who go on energy reduced programs will gain 3% weight back within a year of stopping the program. That's why diets typically don't work.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited October 2016
    Options
    Jakep2323 wrote: »
    Is your friend overweight? (Or her "nutritionist?") If so, I wouldn't listen to a word she says.

    If you're obese or overweight, count your calories and assume a calorie is a calorie.

    Don't listen to fat people? lol - that's your advice. Note we can't see a picture of you so how do we know to trust what you say? ;) (Your post made me chuckle mate)

    If people know what they're doing they wouldn't be fat. That would be my take on it.

    I've lost 90+lbs. I am still fat. I guess I don't know what am doing or talking about when it comes to weight loss....

    If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have gained 90lbs+
    My my...Aren't you a *kitten* ray of sunshine?
    The thing is, I ended up losing it and continue to lose weight. I guess I am too *kitten* stupid to even understand how I did that. Derp derp. Weight loss? What is weight loss?

    I gained due to lifes hardship. Raped, hated, abused physically and emotionally, many close deaths, deep suicidal depression. I certainly am not stupid, and I certainly don't take BS. I am trying to live beyond my past.

    Are you working with a therapist?
    I was. I edited my previous post to mention that I have learned to deal with my past. I am no longer that person and haven't been in a while. I'm losing weight, on meds, heavy lifting, jogging, have a lovely husband, have a vet degree and have caring people in my life.

    I mentioned what I've been through as that was my personal downfall regarding my weight.

    I am living my life and refuse to let the past bring me down. Its in the past for a reason. ;)

    Congratulations! That is admirable. You are an overcomer.
    <3