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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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I've had 3 headshakes from doctors this year when I decline the shot. After the year they guessed wrong and most people got an ineffective flu shot, I sort of lost my faith in that system.
Serious question - so you would rather risk getting the flu every year, than get the vaccine and risk the occasional year that the shot doesn't protect against the flu bug that's going around?
This really doesn't make sense to me. In both instances, the worst case scenario is that you will get the flu. If the vaccine is based on the "wrong" strains, you're in the same boat as the people who didn't get the vaccine at all. You're still not worse off than you would have been without the shot.
But by choosing to get the shot, you increase your chances of the best outcome -- that you are able to avoid getting a case of the flu that you otherwise would have gotten (and you avoid passing it to other people in your community, people that may be more vulnerable). Some years you dramatically increase your chances of the best outcome, sometimes the increase isn't so great. But it's still a chance at the best outcome.
Not getting the shot at all completely eliminates your chance at that outcome.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I've had 3 headshakes from doctors this year when I decline the shot. After the year they guessed wrong and most people got an ineffective flu shot, I sort of lost my faith in that system.
Serious question - so you would rather risk getting the flu every year, than get the vaccine and risk the occasional year that the shot doesn't protect against the flu bug that's going around?
This really doesn't make sense to me. In both instances, the worst case scenario is that you will get the flu. If the vaccine is based on the "wrong" strains, you're in the same boat as the people who didn't get the vaccine at all. You're still not worse off than you would have been without the shot.
But by choosing to get the shot, you increase your chances of the best outcome -- that you are able to avoid getting a case of the flu that you otherwise would have gotten (and you avoid passing it to other people in your community, people that may be more vulnerable). Some years you dramatically increase your chances of the best outcome, sometimes the increase isn't so great. But it's still a chance at the best outcome.
Not getting the shot at all completely eliminates your chance at that outcome.
My thoughts also, except if there are other factors - such as costs (financial or time) or fear of needles.0 -
finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .3 -
I had a health cousin die at 34 from the flu. She had no reason to think there was anything abnormal about the flu she had, called her husband at work to come home and take her to the doctor but was gone by the time he got home 30 minutes later. So...yeah. I get a flu shot and you all really should too. You could literally die from not getting one, or you could spread the flu and kill someone else.1
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finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
Most studies published in the U.S. get no media attention. When a study does get picked up in the press, there is rarely enough detail to form a thorough understanding anyway. There are sufficient repositories of peer reviewed scientific journals. If a scholastic journal is difficult to find, though, then it would be difficult for other experts to contribute to a peer review process. And therefore, I would question an article published only in such a journal.3 -
queenofpuppies wrote: »... or you could spread the flu and kill someone else.
I've never been personally receptive to the flu; just doesn't make me sick generally. But I read about being a potential carrier while I was working with a gentleman who was undergoing chemo. Started getting them then. I don't get them consistently anymore, but that was an eye-opener at that time
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finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
What private studies are you referring to? Also, if they aren't covered at all by the media or if they aren't available online, how are you hearing about them?3 -
finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
He had everything to gain. One researcher (I believe his name was Wakefield) did one study that involved a handful of children and fraudulently proclaimed to the world that he had shown a link between vaccines and autism. Then he wrote a book that made him a lot of money. Then Jenny McCarthy, a Playboy playmate jumped on the bandwagon and publicized his book and theory, making him a ton more money. Meanwhile, the other researchers who worked with him withdrew their support, hundreds of independent studies were done, none of which even showed correlation between vaccines and autism, the original study was declared fraudulent, and even Jenny McCarthy came forward and said she was wrong.
Edited to add: I forgot - They are now finding out Wakefield was applying for a patent for an alternative vaccine delivery of some kind. So in addition to profiting off the book, it seems he was hoping to discredit the current vaccination process so he could be ready as the owner of a replacement system
The majority of children get their vaccines, so ANY condition a child could develop will be seen in children who got vaccinated.
And despite all the hype, autism only develops in a minority of children, so a child who isn't vaccinated would probably not develop autism one way or the other.
Parents with autistic children are desperate to know why, so some have latched onto this theory. But there is just no link. Researchers who have dedicated their lives to figuring out autism would LOVE to be able to pin it on something so easy to fix, but they can't.8 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
She might believe that vaccines cause autism, but that doesn't make it true.
Nor does it make it untrue medically speaking.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
She might believe that vaccines cause autism, but that doesn't make it true.
Nor does it make it untrue medically speaking.
Nor does it make it true medically speaking.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
She might believe that vaccines cause autism, but that doesn't make it true.
Nor does it make it untrue medically speaking.
No, the fact that there is absolutely no proof of even correlation found in any non-fraudulent research makes it untrue medically speaking.
According to the CDC, 1 in 68 children has autism (https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html). That is 1.5% of children. Taking into consideration that there is a lower threshold for diagnosis now as opposed to previous generations so that % is inflated by comparison. And anywhere from 80-95% of children in the US get vaccinations (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/immunize.htm). If vaccinations cause autism, why do such a low % of children get autism. Aren't there countless other things that 1.5% of children might have in common, that the other 98.5% of children don't?13 -
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finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
Science says she's wrong
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2275444
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25562790
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814559
Now post one of those private studies.6 -
finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
Could you list some of these studies? I have database access and would be interested.3 -
I predicted this on page one.
JS.6 -
I'm not for them (for me). They always seem to predict the wrong strand that will be super active (or don't have a vaccine prepared for whatever strand happens to be particularly virulent) that year. So I either get sick anyway or not at all (usually this one). Also, I despise being poked with needles and the nasal thing burns horribly every time I try. There's also the small matter that every time the "season" rolls around, the clinics around here never seem to have the vaccines in supply until half the population gets sick or we're halfway or more through it already. Not seeing how that's effective.
Buuuut, I have nothing against flu vaccines or vaccines in general. They serve a purpose and I generally believe they are safe, but I don't feel a need to run out and get one every year.2 -
I guess I'm lucky because in the uk they are free for people at risk or who work/live with someone at risk. And for others it's not expensive2
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GaleHawkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
She might believe that vaccines cause autism, but that doesn't make it true.
Nor does it make it untrue medically speaking.
No, the fact that there is absolutely no proof of even correlation found in any non-fraudulent research makes it untrue medically speaking.
According to the CDC, 1 in 68 children has autism (https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html). That is 1.5% of children. Taking into consideration that there is a lower threshold for diagnosis now as opposed to previous generations so that % is inflated by comparison. And anywhere from 80-95% of children in the US get vaccinations (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/immunize.htm). If vaccinations cause autism, why do such a low % of children get autism. Aren't there countless other things that 1.5% of children might have in common, that the other 98.5% of children don't?
I agree. There are only questions with no Yes/No answers.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
She might believe that vaccines cause autism, but that doesn't make it true.
Nor does it make it untrue medically speaking.
Study after study can't find a link between vaccines and autism. Some are very large studies.3 -
I expect the starting age of vaccinations maybe a factor in their possible side effect risks.1
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finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »A woman told me her son got autism from vaccines . Her other child is unvaccinated and is fine .
Yes, the bogus study that just won't DIE! Not only is it fear-mongering, it's guilt-mongering for the parents who vaccinated their children and later learned they were autistic. Unrelated, but there's this old discredited study out there that's telling them it's your fault
Who says she is wrong ? Plenty private studies out there from country to country that get no news or internet coverage . I'd take someone's study that has nothing to gain over someone who has something to gain any day of the week .
Science says she's wrong
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2275444
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25562790
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814559
Now post one of those private studies.
This makes me so angry, Wakefield was struck off by the GMC for being a massive liar and fabricating data. Meanwhile he is trying to get funding for more propaganda films.
As I've said I personally know someone who is deaf from measles, and someone who is infertile from mumps.
Also if you don't believe studies based on data, I have a sibling with autism, they did not receive the MMR before diagnosis as they were too unwell. The other 3 siblings did receive the MMR and do not have autism.
My anecdote beats your bull *kitten* anecdote because there are twice as many of us.....
Not to mention, the sub tone of a lot of antivaxxers; autism is awful and should be avoided whereas deafness and infertility are just fine.
Just like I've never been in a massive pile up on a motorway but I sure as hell put my seatbelt on.
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Or how about " my mother smoked all her life and didn't get cancer,therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer "4
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With so much fake science data out there what to do or not to do for our health is confusing at best.2
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comptonelizabeth wrote: »Or how about " my mother smoked all her life and didn't get cancer,therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer "
Yep, my grandfather died in a hospice coughing up his lungs due to advanced cancer after a lifetime of smoking. But pretty sure it was becuase he used to eat sugar out of a bag using a stick of butter as a spoon.... that fits my bias.GaleHawkins wrote: »With so much fake science data out there what to do or not to do for our health is confusing at best.
It's pretty clear that avoiding mortality and morbidity due to vaccinations is a good start though. Could you quote some 'fake science' please? The only 'fake science' I've quoted is Wakefield and he rightly got struck off, but people still believe this rubbish. There are limitations of the 'flu vaccine due to the nature of influenza. They have been well hashed out and explained up thread by others.
In general, don't smoke, avoid sunbeds, eat a nutritious diet, be a healthy weight (why most of us are here). Not completely on topic, but avoiding some conditions can be made with lifestyle changes; these are backed up. so I still have no idea why people go doen rabbit holes of 'my aunts cousins brother said.....' Some of it is also just genetic luck (or not as the case may be)
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KrazyKrissyy wrote: »No thanks. I'm allergic to them (srs).
And this is why it's important for other people to get them (vaccinations in general). So that you can be protected because of herd immunity.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »With so much fake science data out there what to do or not to do for our health is confusing at best.
The problem is that what is actually good data is what you think is fake, and that which is pseudoscientific data is what you think is good. That's what's causes your confusion. As has been told to you many times, learn how to vet your sources.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I expect the starting age of vaccinations maybe a factor in their possible side effect risks.
What is the basis for that suspicion? Like, the scientific basis?2 -
I am for but can't have them
If you have shellfish allergies watch out for A site reaction!!! 1
https://youtu.be/Rzxr9FeZf1g
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