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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
Gale do you not understand that most of your information is from quack websites
Do you understand who you are addressing?
2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
Gale do you not understand that most of your information is from quack websites
Do you understand who you are addressing?
Someone who is constantly pushing disproven or unsupported claims from quack websites?9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
No. It's. Not.
Again, this is a logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Provide some proof.2 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
No it doesn't. What you linked to is an opinion piece. I'm not going to chase down all the links. So instead how about you post what you believe to be the best evidence showing VitD has any effect on influenza or any URI for that matter.
I did notice that that fluff piece you linked to referenced the garbage put out by Dr. JJ Canell. He's an Uber quack, a psychiatrist pretending to be an epidemiologist, and he's fails miserably at it.
Seriously, learn how to vet your sources.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.
Since some 3000 genes have been found to have Vitamin D recepticals why are you surprised Vitamin D levels of 50-100 ng reduces human death from all causes?3 -
When we get disease like the flu we can assume we aren't truly healthy because our immune system was
compromised at that time.
7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.
Since some 3000 genes have been found to have Vitamin D recepticals why are you surprised Vitamin D levels of 50-100 ng reduces human death from all causes?
Well to start with...the lack of objective evidence.
3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.
Since some 3000 genes have been found to have Vitamin D recepticals why are you surprised Vitamin D levels of 50-100 ng reduces human death from all causes?
What in the world are you blathering on about now???
This is red herring, you have nothing to support your mindless assertions so you figure you'll change the subject, got it.2 -
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Ever since stanmann (apparently successfully) noted the Turing bot, I've been wondering if Gale might be one, too.1
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GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
No. It's. Not.
Again, this is a logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Provide some proof.
John how many people with earned terminal degrees in healthcare do you talk with weekly? There is no logical fallacy on my part. 2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
No. It's. Not.
Again, this is a logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Provide some proof.
John how many people with earned terminal degrees in healthcare do you talk with weekly? There is no logical fallacy on my part.
As one of my favorite FDA auditors once said "With all due respect, I do not care how many letters you have behind your name. Show me the data."8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.
Since some 3000 genes have been found to have Vitamin D recepticals why are you surprised Vitamin D levels of 50-100 ng reduces human death from all causes?
What in the world are you blathering on about now???
This is red herring, you have nothing to support your mindless assertions so you figure you'll change the subject, got it.
John you are the one that posted the link that made reference to Vitamin D as a prevention option to the flu shoot.
Sadly the value of the flu shot just is not well understood because flu itself is not well understood and its transmission.
https://prevention.com/health/health-concerns/77-flu-sufferers-show-no-symptoms
77% Of Flu Sufferers Show No Symptoms
As indicted in other links above if a person comes in contact with the flu they actually get the flu but many do not have any symtoms yet they are still able to spread the flu it seems.
I do understand this is hard to understand even with advanced medical training. There is NOTHING about the human body that is just black and white simple in nature.5 -
I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.2 -
unparalleledAF wrote: »I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.
As someone who has an immunocompromised person in my close circle, I wish people cared about their potential impact on immunocompromised people they don't know as well (but still will encounter socially and professionally) as they would care about the impact on their loved ones if they were immunocompromised.
Getting the vaccine is not just about protecting those who are close to you.7 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
No. It's. Not.
Again, this is a logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Provide some proof.
John how many people with earned terminal degrees in healthcare do you talk with weekly? There is no logical fallacy on my part.
As one of my favorite FDA auditors once said "With all due respect, I do not care how many letters you have behind your name. Show me the data."
Bingo!0 -
unparalleledAF wrote: »I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.
@unparalleledAF where we develop flu symptoms or not seems to be influenced by our own genes based on the article below.
https://livescience.com/35834-asymptomatic-flu-transmitters-genes-activated.html
"....Nine of the volunteers came down with mild to severe flu, even though the blood tests confirmed that all 17 were infected and making antibodies against the virus .
The symptom-free volunteers showed activity in genes performing antioxidant and anti-inflammatory functions, but their bodies' acute inflammatory responses were not active, said Alfred Hero, a co-author of the paper.
Meanwhile, blood samples from the sick volunteers showed different, or even opposite, gene activity, Hero said...."1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »unparalleledAF wrote: »I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.
As someone who has an immunocompromised person in my close circle, I wish people cared about their potential impact on immunocompromised people they don't know as well (but still will encounter socially and professionally) as they would care about the impact on their loved ones if they were immunocompromised.
Getting the vaccine is not just about protecting those who are close to you.
Perhaps even better we could all take and share Vitamin D to show concern for everyone.
iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/vitamind-d-supplements-prevent-cold-flu-infections/
'....This new review, led by the Queen Mary University of London (QMUL), looked at 11,321 people across 25 separate trials in order to see if there was any definitive correlations present in this regard. These studies looked at an impressive range of infections, from common cold strains to full-blown influenza.
They came to the conclusion that, for every 33 people regularly taking Vitamin D supplements as part of a balanced diet, one of them would not experience a cold or flu infection during the year. This would make it more effective than the flu vaccination.
Overall, extended to the entire UK, this works out to be 3 million people without the sniffles. This would not just be great for their own health, but would be a huge boost to the British economy in terms of work hours not lost to sickness....'
I am not against people getting the flu shots for themselves but why not also take Vitamin D3 without health risks as well? Flu season we all know mirrors when we naturally make less Vitamin D in our bodies due to less sunshine at least in North America and Europe.
2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »unparalleledAF wrote: »I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.
As someone who has an immunocompromised person in my close circle, I wish people cared about their potential impact on immunocompromised people they don't know as well (but still will encounter socially and professionally) as they would care about the impact on their loved ones if they were immunocompromised.
Getting the vaccine is not just about protecting those who are close to you.
Perhaps even better we could all take and share Vitamin D to show concern for everyone.
iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/vitamind-d-supplements-prevent-cold-flu-infections/
'....This new review, led by the Queen Mary University of London (QMUL), looked at 11,321 people across 25 separate trials in order to see if there was any definitive correlations present in this regard. These studies looked at an impressive range of infections, from common cold strains to full-blown influenza.
They came to the conclusion that, for every 33 people regularly taking Vitamin D supplements as part of a balanced diet, one of them would not experience a cold or flu infection during the year. This would make it more effective than the flu vaccination.
Overall, extended to the entire UK, this works out to be 3 million people without the sniffles. This would not just be great for their own health, but would be a huge boost to the British economy in terms of work hours not lost to sickness....'
I am not against people getting the flu shots for themselves but why not also take Vitamin D3 without health risks as well? Flu season we all know mirrors when we naturally make less Vitamin D in our bodies due to less sunshine at least in North America and Europe.
Why choose one or the other? I get a flu vaccine and I supplement vitamin D.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »unparalleledAF wrote: »I get the flu once a decade. My record was 15 years. I don't get the shot.
I would consider it if someone in my close circle was immunocompromised.
As someone who has an immunocompromised person in my close circle, I wish people cared about their potential impact on immunocompromised people they don't know as well (but still will encounter socially and professionally) as they would care about the impact on their loved ones if they were immunocompromised.
Getting the vaccine is not just about protecting those who are close to you.
Perhaps even better we could all take and share Vitamin D to show concern for everyone.
iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/vitamind-d-supplements-prevent-cold-flu-infections/
'....This new review, led by the Queen Mary University of London (QMUL), looked at 11,321 people across 25 separate trials in order to see if there was any definitive correlations present in this regard. These studies looked at an impressive range of infections, from common cold strains to full-blown influenza.
They came to the conclusion that, for every 33 people regularly taking Vitamin D supplements as part of a balanced diet, one of them would not experience a cold or flu infection during the year. This would make it more effective than the flu vaccination.
Overall, extended to the entire UK, this works out to be 3 million people without the sniffles. This would not just be great for their own health, but would be a huge boost to the British economy in terms of work hours not lost to sickness....'
I am not against people getting the flu shots for themselves but why not also take Vitamin D3 without health risks as well? Flu season we all know mirrors when we naturally make less Vitamin D in our bodies due to less sunshine at least in North America and Europe.
Why choose one or the other? I get a flu vaccine and I supplement vitamin D.
Same.2 -
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@suzannesimmons3 below seems to be the data behind the study that may answer your question.
bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i65830 -
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There is nothing as double sided as science, you can always find links every which way to suit your personal slant, it takes years for a leading paradigm to become mainstream.
Me I'll trust what works for me, use everything I need in the way of supplements (ones commonly disparaged by those without my issues) just to avoid flu injections by supporting my immune system. I have issues with the common preservatives in medications and vaccines, I'm done with being laid low by things which are supposed to make/keep me well. Life is too short to be ill, in my opinion.5 -
There is nothing as double sided as science, you can always find links every which way to suit your personal slant, it takes years for a leading paradigm to become mainstream.
Me I'll trust what works for me, use everything I need in the way of supplements (ones commonly disparaged by those without my issues) just to avoid flu injections by supporting my immune system. I have issues with the common preservatives in medications and vaccines, I'm done with being laid low by things which are supposed to make/keep me well. Life is too short to be ill, in my opinion.
If you have sensitivities to the preservatives used in vaccines, you probably shouldn't be taking them.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »perkymommy wrote: »KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »well for... of course. why put your life in any kind of sickness if you do not have to. no brainer really. I think the people that are against are just afraid of needles.
I have no problem with needles. I have a problem with something foreign being put in to my body that I truly am not certain that's what it really is what they say it is.
Why in the world do you think they are lying about what is in the vaccine?
And I agree with other posters, you really should not be involved in the healthcare field with these tires of responses.
John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
No. It's. Not.
Again, this is a logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Provide some proof.
John how many people with earned terminal degrees in healthcare do you talk with weekly? There is no logical fallacy on my part.
Here is what you said:
You asserted this as if it was fact. You provided is no evidence to support this statement, therefore, by definition, it is an argument by assertion, a logical fallacy. So yes it is a logical fallacy on your part, no matter how much you deny it.John do you not understand the resistance to the flu shots is coming from within the healthcare profession not the unaware public in general.
Now, on to the bolded. This is also a 2 logical fallacies wrapped into one neat little package. An appeal to non-authority, that would be you. And an ad hominem, you are trying to discredit me by implying I dont have the knowledge to debate the topic.
By the way, I'm an RN by education but left the hospital many years ago to work in medical devices. I speak with MDs on a daily basis, but that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.7 -
This is a bold faced lie, I never said that Vit D is a prevention option for the flu, you did. Multiple times, just look upthread. I've pointed out multiple times, with supporting data, how wrong you are about Vit D for flu prevention.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Huh???? What in the world are you getting at here?GaleHawkins wrote: »nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.WZopsj6GPIU
It seems those who do not get the flu really do get the flu.
I was not trying to get at anything. The article stands on its on legs. Everyone gets the flu but the flu does not get everyone per the article. The status of one's immune system seems to be what decides the side effects of getting the flu.
So spectacularly wrong. You really think that that is what the research says?
Here is the original paper:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002234
Please point out where it says that in the original research article.
Again, what in the world are you getting at here?
John did you follow your posted link quoted in this post and read the below?
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/comment?id=10.1371/annotation/b761db38-b594-44b3-b608-1743595d6ab7
Vitamin D may explain some of the findings of this paper
Cosmic rays may explain some of the findings of this paper.
This is argumentation without causation. Something the supplement industry thrives on as by regulation supplements do not have to prove effectiveness. There are countless potential correlative values which may or may not contribute to a disease state, but there is no logical connection to assert that the concentration of vitamin D would impact the effectivity of a virus.
Since some 3000 genes have been found to have Vitamin D recepticals why are you surprised Vitamin D levels of 50-100 ng reduces human death from all causes?
What in the world are you blathering on about now???
This is red herring, you have nothing to support your mindless assertions so you figure you'll change the subject, got it.
John you are the one that posted the link that made reference to Vitamin D as a prevention option to the flu shoot.
Are you trying to minimize the dangers of the flu by implying that it is a mild disease?https://prevention.com/health/health-concerns/77-flu-sufferers-show-no-symptoms
77% Of Flu Sufferers Show No Symptoms
Again, logical fallacy, argument by assertion. None of the links you provided said any such thing.As indicted in other links above if a person comes in contact with the flu they actually get the flu but many do not have any symtoms yet they are still able to spread the flu it seems.
Yes, we can all see that you are having a lot of trouble understanding all of this.I do understand this is hard to understand even with advanced medical training.
3
This discussion has been closed.
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