Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
-
Ah, there’s no getting through to you. You’re nuts.
Really? I am nuts to suggest you should have the common decency to bring the elderly you care for in on the decision about whether or not their caregiver is vaccinated? That perhaps you should consider the wishes of your employer who would get absolutely wrecked if you ended up getting someone in your care sick with a disease you could have been vaccinated for but didn't because you didn't feel like it. That I dare suggest you consider others beyond yourself. That is nuts huh?
If you really don't think its a problem why don't you ask your employer and those you care for what their preference would be then. Oh right, its because you don't care...I keep forgetting.8 -
BRO, you need to relax! Again, this is a matter of opinion. I’m pretty sure if someone wants to read all your ranting they’ll get your opinion. Otherwise, I’m going to keep doing my job, not get the vaccine (because that’s my choice), and move on with my life. Get over yourself.9
-
BRO, you need to relax! Again, this is a matter of opinion. I’m pretty sure if someone wants to read all your ranting they’ll get your opinion. Otherwise, I’m going to keep doing my job, not get the vaccine (because that’s my choice), and move on with my life. Get over yourself.
It isn't just your choice if you are in healthcare, that is the point. It also isn't just an opinion if you are regularly working with the elderly, you are putting people at risk unnecessarily. How are you not getting that. I care because I care about the lives of the people you care for which hopefully you do as well. I can only imagine you think vaccines do absolutely nothing because if you believed they would at all reduce your chance of transmitting a disease to your patients I sure do hope you would take it.
Just imagine for a second that like me you consider this putting people's lives in danger. I think then you could understand why I am not being "chill".
But sure, I'm done...I'm walking away, clear you aren't going to actually ask those in your care or those you work for what they think or want because why would you right? Its about you after all.9 -
Is there an off button?5
-
-
I do not consider him a "troll." He has been respectful.
These ongoing 'anti-vaccination' rants make me very sad. I am also in healthcare...I work in hospitals....I care about my patients......not just what is best for ME.
I am on here partly because I am immunocompromised and in the fight of my life...and having caregivers and/or patients who choose not to get vaccinated puts my life at risk. I got an incurable cancer - I dont drink, smoke or do anything like that.....I just had bad luck. I'm on here because I was "starved" after not being able to eat for months post a transplant, and when I started eating again I gained weight back quickly. Am trying to "get back to normal." People like me rely on herd immunity. I have NONE of the risk factors for the cancer I got, and have young children.
You can pretend all you want that you can take "safety measures" but the elderly you work with cannot, and you are exposing them. Pls think of others and not just yourself. Please.8 -
I work strictly with elderly.
I’m going to leave this here.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/855937
Nothing is going to please the trolls
You REALLY should not be working with vulnerable people, with an opinion like yours...7 -
This content has been removed.
-
BRO, you need to relax! Again, this is a matter of opinion. I’m pretty sure if someone wants to read all your ranting they’ll get your opinion. Otherwise, I’m going to keep doing my job, not get the vaccine (because that’s my choice), and move on with my life. Get over yourself.
How is this an opinion? Facts are not opinions. This is like firing a gun at someone and saying "my opinion is that people don't die from bullet wounds." But they still do, whatever you say your opinion is! No wonder Aaron said his head is about to explode.
If you are not willing to do what goes with the job, you shouldn't have taken the job.7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »BRO, you need to relax! Again, this is a matter of opinion. I’m pretty sure if someone wants to read all your ranting they’ll get your opinion. Otherwise, I’m going to keep doing my job, not get the vaccine (because that’s my choice), and move on with my life. Get over yourself.
How is this an opinion? Facts are not opinions. This is like firing a gun at someone and saying "my opinion is that people don't die from bullet wounds." But they still do, whatever you say your opinion is! No wonder Aaron said his head is about to explode.
If you are not willing to do what goes with the job, you shouldn't have taken the job.
Since there is no medical research to clearly support getting flu shots push back from health care professionals is only logical.9 -
I'm having a really hard time imagining any place of healthcare, especially ones involving a majority of elderly, little ones, and immunocompromised, wouldn't require their employees who have direct contact with the patients to get their flu shot. I'm equally as shocked that someone who is well trained in the healthcare field would even risk not getting one knowing that they are exposed to those who are more vulnerable everyday. Come the end of September the first thing I do is get my flu shot and the same goes for everyone I know who works in healthcare along side me. It's part of my job to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I understand the anger Aaron and others are displaying. Quite frankly, the decision to not get the flu shot as an active healthcare worker (I think everyone who can should get them but that's another argument) is extremely irresponsible.5
-
cmriverside wrote: »
Um same. I work in a theatre, i wear a mask 8 hrs a day and we STILL get the flu vac. This is irresponsible and uneducated for a healthcare worker and NEVER in my years of being a nurse, have i heard ANYTHING remotely similar.
By "a theater" you mean a surgical suite/operating room? (For those in America, where "theater" is where we watch movies.)
Never mind me, I'm just passing through.
Yep, operating suite, we call your theatre, going to the cinema or movies
0 -
I work strictly with elderly.
I’m going to leave this here.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/855937
Nothing is going to please the trolls
Posts what may very well be the dumbest, most asinine, most irresponsible thing I've ever seen on MFP - which is saying something - and calls others trolls. *Puppy* brilliant.
Oh, and that article is locked. However, there is another medscape article regarding vaccination - 722174 - that flies completely in the face of what you believe.6 -
When i hear "health professionals" rebuting evidence based standard precautions for minimising transmission of infectious diseases in a health care environment, it absolutely dumbfounds me.
2 -
The initial post asked whether people get the flu shot or not. If you do, cool. I don’t. It’s not effective in preventing influenza (especially not this year). There are plenty of people who I work with who don’t get the shot. If you want to do whatever the gov’t tells you to do, be my guest. I watch what goes in my body and that’s my choice. No need to be rude guys. Get over your drama. Haha.12
-
Canadian politics is a little....different. We had the Rhino party run a few years ago, which suggested switching our car lanes to the British Standard (left lane instead of right). To minimise disruption, they proposed a phased approach where heavy trucks would switch to the new standard first.
There's a reason why a country sets standards, guidelines, and rules. It's a collective agreement for the smooth running of a country. We couldn't build national roads, bridges, highways, or rail lines without collective agreement.
This works at the world level too. I am positive that the United Nations' efforts to improve child welfare has resulted in a world-wide improvement in the care for children. Even if their most effective weapon is international embarrassment.
Call it "drama", call it "doing whatever the government tells you" to do. It doesn't change the fact that vaccination saves lives. Lots of lives.4 -
I’m sure they do, for children, elderly, or people with compromised immune systems. I don’t apply to those categories. Very diplomatic response though, I can appreciate that.3
-
-
There actually isn’t a “X” and it’s sarcasm, in case you didn’t catch that.2
-
-
Haha! Touché bro1
-
It is like I am talking to a child I swear.
I understand you don't want to get vaccinated, I understand you believe you are so healthy that you couldn't possibly get the flu and be in the contagious phase before you become symptomatic enough to notice and in so doing so spread the disease to people in your care who are much less able to fend the disease off than yourself. I get you feel that the flu vaccine is not particularly effective (but again if you believe it is effective at all shouldn't you still care?). I get that you don't want to do it and that you feel it is your choice.
What you seem to be ignoring is that you aren't self-employed. You don't work for you, you work for your employer and you work for those who you provide care to. As a result it is their opinion on vaccination that is the opinion that matters. If your employer believes it is in their best interest for staff to be vaccinated and/or the elderly you care for would prefer those caring for them are fully vaccinated that is what matters. You work in a service industry, healthcare is to serve. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. If you feel that strongly, choose a different profession that is not in the service sector. I would not have these opinions about someone who worked as a stock broker or something, the reason I am saying what I am saying is because you are in a service industry where you work for elderly people and you still think it is all about you and what you want. Like a child.
Reminds me of the case of that woman who worked in a government licencing agency and refused to give out wedding licences to gay people when her state allowed gay marriage because she personally didn't like it due to her religious beliefs. She acted like her beliefs were what was important and that the fact that it was literally her job to hand out licences in accordance to what was considered to be the appropriate action by the consensus of society that she worked for. She seemed completely oblivious to the fact that it wasn't about her or her opinions it was about her job and her not performing her job.
You work in healthcare. It is your job to provide healthcare to your patients in accordance to the best practices determined by your employer in accordance to the general consensus of the medical field and to the society in which you work. The fact that your employer isn't holding a gun to your head about it doesn't somehow relieve you of this duty. Do your job or leave your job.
10 -
My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.9
-
This content has been removed.
-
My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.
What does your employer want you to do? Like I said it doesn't matter if they aren't holding a gun to your head. What do they want? What does the society you live in want? What do the elderly you care for want? Take into consideration the wishes of things beyond just yourself.
You keep talking about YOUR life and YOUR beliefs and YOUR choice but it isn't about that at all. You have a job, having a job means you work for someone which means it isn't all about you. Seriously, have you at all considered taking into account what the people paying you want or what the people who you care for want? Have you even asked them? Are you afraid to ask them?
Again if you weren't working in the healthcare industry I would agree with you. I do not support mandatory vaccination for the general public and I think there it does have to come down to choice. But for a healthcare worker no I am sorry you work for healthcare you should be supportive of the best practices of your employer. As a member of a service industry it isn't about you and your feelings.4 -
This content has been removed.
-
Wowwwwww, this is literally getting way out of hand. There are tons of people who don’t get the flu shot. Here’s an article, educate yourself. It’s ineffective in LTC facilities.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27251461/9 -
"A systematic review found that 3% of working adults who had received influenza vaccine and 5% of those who were unvaccinated had laboratory-proven influenza per season; in healthcare workers (HCWs) these percentages were 5% and 8% respectively.Healthcare workers may transmit influenza to patients."
The literal very first sentence of what you linked states that the percentage of HCW who got flu was higher in those that were unvaccinated compared to those who were vaccinated. Not a small decrease either, a decrease of 37%. When you get the flu you are contagious for at least 24 hours before you become symptomatic at which point you can transmit the flu via aerosol to people around you. It is unlikely a healthy younger person such as yourself would die from the flu however the chances are much greater for the elderly, especially those who require care. According to the very opening statement of your link you'd be decreasing that chance by 37% by getting vaccinated.
As for the part that said no risk was found in the specific epidemiological data they investigated it then states this "The principal sources of bias in the studies related to attrition, lack of blinding, contamination in the control groups and low rates of vaccination coverage in the intervention arms, leading us to downgrade the quality of evidence for all outcomes due to serious risk of bias." Did you miss that part? This studies conclusion is that the results of their examination did not find support for the idea that the flu vaccine helps HCW not transmit flu but they also show (in the very first sentence) that overall it does. They just say that their particular study didn't show supportive evidence, they never claim it doesn't. Read it again and pay attention to what they are saying not to what you want to hear from it.
10 -
Canadian politics is a little....different. We had the Rhino party run a few years ago, which suggested switching our car lanes to the British Standard (left lane instead of right). To minimise disruption, they proposed a phased approach where heavy trucks would switch to the new standard first.
I've been to Canada (Laval, specifically) twice. I don't remember seeing separate lanes for trucks.
So... Wouldn't this mean that the heavy trucks would be heading straight for passenger vehicles? Or am I missing something?
2 -
Going to bed. Cant even2
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 430 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions