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Flu shots? For them or against ?
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Haha! Touché bro1
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It is like I am talking to a child I swear.
I understand you don't want to get vaccinated, I understand you believe you are so healthy that you couldn't possibly get the flu and be in the contagious phase before you become symptomatic enough to notice and in so doing so spread the disease to people in your care who are much less able to fend the disease off than yourself. I get you feel that the flu vaccine is not particularly effective (but again if you believe it is effective at all shouldn't you still care?). I get that you don't want to do it and that you feel it is your choice.
What you seem to be ignoring is that you aren't self-employed. You don't work for you, you work for your employer and you work for those who you provide care to. As a result it is their opinion on vaccination that is the opinion that matters. If your employer believes it is in their best interest for staff to be vaccinated and/or the elderly you care for would prefer those caring for them are fully vaccinated that is what matters. You work in a service industry, healthcare is to serve. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. If you feel that strongly, choose a different profession that is not in the service sector. I would not have these opinions about someone who worked as a stock broker or something, the reason I am saying what I am saying is because you are in a service industry where you work for elderly people and you still think it is all about you and what you want. Like a child.
Reminds me of the case of that woman who worked in a government licencing agency and refused to give out wedding licences to gay people when her state allowed gay marriage because she personally didn't like it due to her religious beliefs. She acted like her beliefs were what was important and that the fact that it was literally her job to hand out licences in accordance to what was considered to be the appropriate action by the consensus of society that she worked for. She seemed completely oblivious to the fact that it wasn't about her or her opinions it was about her job and her not performing her job.
You work in healthcare. It is your job to provide healthcare to your patients in accordance to the best practices determined by your employer in accordance to the general consensus of the medical field and to the society in which you work. The fact that your employer isn't holding a gun to your head about it doesn't somehow relieve you of this duty. Do your job or leave your job.
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My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.9
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My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.
What does your employer want you to do? Like I said it doesn't matter if they aren't holding a gun to your head. What do they want? What does the society you live in want? What do the elderly you care for want? Take into consideration the wishes of things beyond just yourself.
You keep talking about YOUR life and YOUR beliefs and YOUR choice but it isn't about that at all. You have a job, having a job means you work for someone which means it isn't all about you. Seriously, have you at all considered taking into account what the people paying you want or what the people who you care for want? Have you even asked them? Are you afraid to ask them?
Again if you weren't working in the healthcare industry I would agree with you. I do not support mandatory vaccination for the general public and I think there it does have to come down to choice. But for a healthcare worker no I am sorry you work for healthcare you should be supportive of the best practices of your employer. As a member of a service industry it isn't about you and your feelings.4 -
Wowwwwww, this is literally getting way out of hand. There are tons of people who don’t get the flu shot. Here’s an article, educate yourself. It’s ineffective in LTC facilities.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27251461/9 -
"A systematic review found that 3% of working adults who had received influenza vaccine and 5% of those who were unvaccinated had laboratory-proven influenza per season; in healthcare workers (HCWs) these percentages were 5% and 8% respectively.Healthcare workers may transmit influenza to patients."
The literal very first sentence of what you linked states that the percentage of HCW who got flu was higher in those that were unvaccinated compared to those who were vaccinated. Not a small decrease either, a decrease of 37%. When you get the flu you are contagious for at least 24 hours before you become symptomatic at which point you can transmit the flu via aerosol to people around you. It is unlikely a healthy younger person such as yourself would die from the flu however the chances are much greater for the elderly, especially those who require care. According to the very opening statement of your link you'd be decreasing that chance by 37% by getting vaccinated.
As for the part that said no risk was found in the specific epidemiological data they investigated it then states this "The principal sources of bias in the studies related to attrition, lack of blinding, contamination in the control groups and low rates of vaccination coverage in the intervention arms, leading us to downgrade the quality of evidence for all outcomes due to serious risk of bias." Did you miss that part? This studies conclusion is that the results of their examination did not find support for the idea that the flu vaccine helps HCW not transmit flu but they also show (in the very first sentence) that overall it does. They just say that their particular study didn't show supportive evidence, they never claim it doesn't. Read it again and pay attention to what they are saying not to what you want to hear from it.
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Canadian politics is a little....different. We had the Rhino party run a few years ago, which suggested switching our car lanes to the British Standard (left lane instead of right). To minimise disruption, they proposed a phased approach where heavy trucks would switch to the new standard first.
I've been to Canada (Laval, specifically) twice. I don't remember seeing separate lanes for trucks.
So... Wouldn't this mean that the heavy trucks would be heading straight for passenger vehicles? Or am I missing something?
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Going to bed. Cant even2
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »"A systematic review found that 3% of working adults who had received influenza vaccine and 5% of those who were unvaccinated had laboratory-proven influenza per season; in healthcare workers (HCWs) these percentages were 5% and 8% respectively.Healthcare workers may transmit influenza to patients."
The literal very first sentence of what you linked states that the percentage of HCW who got flu was higher in those that were unvaccinated compared to those who were vaccinated. Not a small decrease either, a decrease of 37%. When you get the flu you are contagious for at least 24 hours before you become symptomatic at which point you can transmit the flu via aerosol to people around you. It is unlikely a healthy younger person such as yourself would die from the flu however the chances are much greater for the elderly, especially those who require care.
As for the part that said no risk was found in the specific epidemiological data they investigated it then states this "The principal sources of bias in the studies related to attrition, lack of blinding, contamination in the control groups and low rates of vaccination coverage in the intervention arms, leading us to downgrade the quality of evidence for all outcomes due to serious risk of bias." Did you miss that part? This studies conclusion is that the results of their examination did not find support for the idea that the flu vaccine helps HCW not transmit flu but they also show (in the very first sentence) that overall it does. They just say that their particular study didn't show supportive evidence, they never claim it doesn't. Read it again and pay attention to what they are saying not to what you want to hear from it.
Well, that's twice now she's linked to sites that directly contradict her beliefs. Yep, it's Friday.
eta: Oh, yeah - have to switch it to December...5 -
Eh, there’s no point in trying to rationalize with irrational people. It neithers credits, not discredits. Maybe you should go focus on dieting and exercising than wasting your time harassing me on a forum. I’m conscious of my decision. That’s my choice (again for the third time). My coworkers didn’t get the vaccine. I stated my opinion. Trust me, the day you end of in a hospital or SNF there’s going to be a lot more to be worried about that a flu vaccine. No need to “bash” my opinion. You’re a perfect example of what’s wrong with society today.12
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It neithers credits, not discredits.
Then why did you provide it as evidence that the idea that healthcare workers caring for the elderly should get flu vaccinated was discredited?
""A systematic review found that 3% of working adults who had received influenza vaccine and 5% of those who were unvaccinated had laboratory-proven influenza per season; in healthcare workers (HCWs) these percentages were 5% and 8% respectively.Healthcare workers may transmit influenza to patients.""
What does that mean Kyla? From your own link. Does that not mean that being vaccinated reduces your risk of flu by 37% in the case of HCW who can indeed spread flu to their patients? Is that not credit towards the notion that the patients of healthcare workers would benefit from healthcare workers being vaccinated? How am I misinterpreting that?
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Eh, there’s no point in trying to rationalize with irrational people. It neithers credits, not discredits. Maybe you should go focus on dieting and exercising than wasting your time harassing me on a forum. I’m conscious of my decision. That’s my choice (again for the third time). My coworkers didn’t get the vaccine. I stated my opinion. Trust me, the day you end of in a hospital or SNF there’s going to be a lot more to be worried about that a flu vaccine. No need to “bash” my opinion. You’re a perfect example of what’s wrong with society today.
You act like its a major deal to get vaccinated. It takes 5 minutes and your employer would pay for it. It costs you nothing, it takes none of your time, it causes you no harm (other than a little soreness in your arm for like 24 hours). No one is asking you to cut your arm off.8 -
People believing healthcare workers should be vaccinated = irrational. Okay.12
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The initial post asked whether people get the flu shot or not. If you do, cool. I don’t. It’s not effective in preventing influenza (especially not this year). There are plenty of people who I work with who don’t get the shot. If you want to do whatever the gov’t tells you to do, be my guest. I watch what goes in my body and that’s my choice. No need to be rude guys. Get over your drama. Haha.
First, this is in the debate forum. If you don't want people to debate your response, you probably shouldn't post in here.
Second, I'll repeat my question. Do you understand the concept of "herd immunity"?9 -
I'm very much on the fence about vaccines and meds in general. I don't even take aspirin.
I used to go to the doctor when I got sick, I would get meds and be on my way. During that time I would usually get sick several times throughout the year. Since I stopped doing that I started getting sick less and less. After about a year or two of that, it got to the point of where I am now. I get sick maybe once every 1 to 3 years.
I only got really sick once since then and it was h1n1 (I assume). It hit me hard, I was sick for what seemed like 3 weeks or a month. I'd been in a vehicle with someone who was just getting over it prior to getting it myself.
I know some ppl swear by vaccines and some ppl wouldn't take one if they could use someone else's arm to get it. My immune system seems to do quite well on its own. The only things I take on the rare occasions I get sick are goldenseal, echinacea, vitamin c, & zinc. I take them 3 times a day from the second I notice anything and more often than not it seems to be history by the next day. I know that won't be the case with everything, but considering I got sick regularly taking meds and now I never get sick, that includes being around ppl with colds and flues, I would rather just go natural.3 -
Canadian politics is a little....different. We had the Rhino party run a few years ago, which suggested switching our car lanes to the British Standard (left lane instead of right). To minimise disruption, they proposed a phased approach where heavy trucks would switch to the new standard first.
I've been to Canada (Laval, specifically) twice. I don't remember seeing separate lanes for trucks.
So... Wouldn't this mean that the heavy trucks would be heading straight for passenger vehicles? Or am I missing something?
You missed the Canadian sense of humour. A phased approach to British roadways would result in head-on collisions. The Rhino party did not get any seats and are now defunct. They sure were fun, though.
Canadian car chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0id9fUYb95A 3 -
I’m sure they do, for children, elderly, or people with compromised immune systems. I don’t apply to those categories. Very diplomatic response though, I can appreciate that.
They do save the lives of the elderly - when other people take them, so as to avoid exposing the elderly to the flu. People with weak immune systems are more likely to have vaccine failure than others. The vaccine doesn't protect them well directly. It only protects them when people like you take it.
Thousands of elderly people every year die because of healthy people who refuse flu shots.6 -
suzannesimmons3 wrote: »My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.
Let us know who you work for so we can warn others.
I'd like to know also. She claims her choice has nothing to do with us - but she works with the elderly. Most of us have elderly relatives that we love very much. I'd like to know if there is any remote possibility that they might ever be treated by her so I can warn them.
I also wonder if it's really true that her current employer really doesn't care if she is refusing to be vaccinated - or if they simply don't follow up or require proof. It's hard to imagine any healthcare provider, especially one that treats the elderly would not require up to date immunizations.2
This discussion has been closed.
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