Push-ups are the devil!
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In a book I used to read a lot they used a progression chart for how to get you up to not only a full body push up, but a one handed one and a handstand push up. The first began with you standing in front of a wall and simulating the push up posture using high reps and concentrating on engaging the muscles. After the wall push up, it moved to incline push up. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/265430971764322036/ this has a picture of the full progression chart. Maybe it can help you
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Pushups are not simply an inverted bench press they are a completely different exercise. Bench press is an open chain movement with a highly restricted range of motion that is almost completely stressing the chest, shoulders and triceps while pushups are a closed chain movement that engages the core, back and legs as well. It's a much harder movement.
i've actually been taught to bench in a closed chain as well, starting with the feet on the floor and terminating in the hands. so i guess we have different techniques with that. my point was more specific to my own personal struggles to keep a stable 'shelf' through the upper back and shoulderblades, so i can isolate the actual movement just into my arms and keep my left one from waving all over the place. the component i struggle with does translate into both the movements.1 -
canadianlbs wrote: »Spliner1969 wrote: »My understanding is that the reason for this is that the extra calories your body needs for muscle isn't coming from your diet, it's coming from your fat stores. Once those fat stores deplete it gets harder and harder to build muscle without a surplus of calories.
it's not quite like that. muscle uses calories, which it can get either from fat or from breaking down muscle tissue. but it isn't built by them, if that makes sense. that would be like using gasoline to build a bigger gas tank. actual new tissue is built out of protein. no protein, no new fibres and/or not enough fibre repair to keep up.
So, at the same time (last six months of my dieting anyway) I doubled up my protein intake (up to 1g/lb of lean body mass or more) from what MFP was suggesting, but kept my deficit. The fat loss doubled and I was able to build some muscle I never had before. So what you're saying makes sense to me. I was still in a deficit but was able to build, likely because of the extra protein, but the deficit helped trim off the fat? Once I hit my goal the same thing at maintenance (same protein level) seems to let me build very slowly, just no huge gains.
I'd also agree with other posters, as the body weight came down and strength went up push ups became much easier. I can also do chin ups now (well, up to 10) but pull ups are still much harder so I have more work to do. To compare with the OP it probably took me six months or better to be able to do 10 push ups, and I started with pretty much nothing as well.2 -
Spliner1969 wrote: »I was still in a deficit but was able to build, likely because of the extra protein, but the deficit helped trim off the fat?
i guess? taht's the way i'd explain it to myself too, but i'd just be making layman guesses. the opinion seems to be that everyone's body has an inbuilt level of 'genetic potential' - that's like the amount of potential strength you just get born with. so reaching that level tends to go fairly fast, which is why linear-progression programmes like sl and starting strength make good entry points for a newbie.
once you reach that natural genetic threshold though, you're now trying to push your body past what it came wired to do. it's like trying to grow taller once you're already as tall as you're 'going' to get [kind of. not literally]. so that's why progress slows and many people shift to a different programme like wendler which uses a different technique to try and keep the adaptive process moving.
^^^ i'm just paraphrasing what i've picked up, with all that.
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improving strength and building muscle are two different things.0
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FWIW, my BP has really taken off since I started to do pushups (along w/dips and pullups) daily in the past 3 months.
I lost 33 lbs from 196 to 163 in the past 6 months and have been doing linear progression w/the Big Four w/increasing strength in all 4 lifts over that time period.
3 months ago, I was kinda stuck at 165/170# in the BP and 95/100# in the OHP but since starting my daily pushups+ routine, my 1RM in the BP has gone up to 205 and up to 125 in the OHP and they haven't stalled again yet.
Of course, they will stall again (as my DL and SQT have at 300 and 240 respectively) but I believe that doing my pushups+ routine has been the main reason for my recent increases in the BP and OHP. So, I highly recommend doing pushups as a useful accessory exercise.1 -
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Thanks for the video - it always helps me to see what people mean. I have to think very hard about keeping my gluteus and core tight. I was talking to my trainer tonight (after doing my 100 strapped in push-ups at 40lbs counter-weight, which was a struggle) ... he thinks just more time, repetition and continuing to lose weight and beef up some more upper body strength. He also gave me more planks and incline push-up sets to keep working on. So ... I guess we'll see what the next 60 days brings!1 -
Spliner1969 wrote: »canadianlbs wrote: »Spliner1969 wrote: »My understanding is that the reason for this is that the extra calories your body needs for muscle isn't coming from your diet, it's coming from your fat stores. Once those fat stores deplete it gets harder and harder to build muscle without a surplus of calories.
it's not quite like that. muscle uses calories, which it can get either from fat or from breaking down muscle tissue. but it isn't built by them, if that makes sense. that would be like using gasoline to build a bigger gas tank. actual new tissue is built out of protein. no protein, no new fibres and/or not enough fibre repair to keep up.
So, at the same time (last six months of my dieting anyway) I doubled up my protein intake (up to 1g/lb of lean body mass or more) from what MFP was suggesting, but kept my deficit. The fat loss doubled and I was able to build some muscle I never had before. So what you're saying makes sense to me. I was still in a deficit but was able to build, likely because of the extra protein, but the deficit helped trim off the fat? Once I hit my goal the same thing at maintenance (same protein level) seems to let me build very slowly, just no huge gains.
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Your fat loss can only double if you double your deficit. You probably didn't gain muscle in a deficit. Strength/performance and muscle are not the same thing!0 -
And in the land of unbelievable stories ... I did 20 push-ups tonight!!!
Ok, let me tell the real version. It was time for my normal weekly 100 "strapped in with counter-weight" push-ups session but I knew I'd be down to only 30lbs help, so I showed up whiny and unmotivated. I told my trainer I knew it was going to be a struggle and I was whining about never getting there and he told me to just get down and do one on my own. And I did! A pretty good one! And then I did another one. So he challenged me to do 20 ... instead of our normal workout ... taking as much time as I needed between them. I'll say only my first 4 were what I'd say were good, and the rest I called kind of "baby" push-ups ... but he said they counted. All up on my toes.
So ... lots of work to go but there IS hope. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions here. I will definitely keep working at it!
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