Boy Scouts ban obese kids from Jamboree
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I know I have a BMI of 40 and I do BodyPump, Nike Training Club, Step, Zumba and BodyCombat. Try telling me I couldn't climb a mountain...give me a break...0
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I know I have a BMI of 40 and I do BodyPump, Nike Training Club, Step, Zumba and BodyCombat. Try telling me I couldn't climb a mountain...give me a break...
Okay, you asked...but I'll be slightly less specific than just climbing a mountain:
There are some activities they do in Scouting that you almost certainly couldn't keep up with. Philmont is one obvious example.0 -
How big would a kid have to be to have a BMI over 40?
If the kid is 4 feet 5 inches he would have to weigh 160 to get a BMI of 40.0 -
I know I have a BMI of 40 and I do BodyPump, Nike Training Club, Step, Zumba and BodyCombat. Try telling me I couldn't climb a mountain...give me a break...
They don't just hike up a mountain, there are other activities. You are also an adult who does strength training, most kids don't carry a lot of muscle, making their BMI high because of scrictly fat.0 -
Yeah, because the streets are overflowing with kids having heart attacks from over exertion. :huh:0
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thisSo if they can't discriminate against gay kids, then they are going to discriminate against the fat kids?? :huh: :noway:
Don't they realize that 'physically demanding' is what these kids need????0 -
Yeah, because the streets are overflowing with kids having heart attacks from over exertion. :huh:
That isn't the only risk. Read the thread. These events are out in the middle of nowhere, you can't just stop and get bussed back to camp if you get sick, hurt, can't mae it, etc.0 -
Yeah, because the streets are overflowing with kids having heart attacks from over exertion. :huh:
That isn't the only risk. Read the thread. These events are out in the middle of nowhere, you can't just stop and get bussed back to camp if you get sick, hurt, can't mae it, etc.
Apparently people do not want to accept the physiological realities of morbid obesity.
Again, it's not just conjecture, it's fact.
The overwhelming strain on just the heart and lungs alone while at rest is a ticking time bomb.
Add ANY exertion, I'm talking about walking to the bathroom, and their respiratory rate goes sky high while their oxygen saturation plummets.
You cannot take a sedentary, morbidly obese kid and suddenly expect him to do strenuous activity.
Yes, they need exercise, but it needs to be slow, steady and safe.
I wonder how many posters on this thread have actually cared for anyone who is morbidly obese?0 -
The whole time reading all I could think was not about the Boy Scouts excluding such a high BMI but I was thinking how could parents let this happen to a child? I don't think I have seen a child with a BMI of 40 up close.0
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The whole time reading all I could think was not about the Boy Scouts excluding such a high BMI but I was thinking how could parents let this happen to a child? I don't think I have seen a child with a BMI of 40 up close.
I've been thinking about that as well, but that's another can of worms...0 -
Ok, I have no problem with kids not being put at risk. But I am an Eagle Scout. I went to scouting events on three continents. Completed a couple of 50 milers, I taught how to build stuff like monkey bridges, and even spent a summer in the Keys as a camp counselor.
I NEVER would have met this criteria as a kid. I was heavy, but fit. BMI is not a good measure of ability.
Kids will self select. Stress what is going to take place and let them determine if they are up to the challenge. If not, then pull them to the side and don't let them do a particular activity. But only if it is a safety issue.
If any kid needs to be challenged physically it is them.
You were above a 40 BMI as a KID and still fit? I find that very hard to believe. How much could you bench as a KID, about 350?0 -
Yeah, because the streets are overflowing with kids having heart attacks from over exertion. :huh:
That isn't the only risk. Read the thread. These events are out in the middle of nowhere, you can't just stop and get bussed back to camp if you get sick, hurt, can't mae it, etc.
Apparently people do not want to accept the physiological realities of morbid obesity.
That's the crux of the matter.0 -
Logic? What's that? Let's not only discriminate against fat kids based on BMI, which is a crap measure of health and fitness anyway, but let's also prevent them from having an experience which includes all kinds of activities that are, gasp, exercise, and would do nothing but improve their health!0
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My boss is on this trip with his son. My boss had to lose 10+ lbs just to be able to go on this trip. It sounded odd to me that they would be so selective.0
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Logic? What's that? Let's not only discriminate against fat kids based on BMI, which is a crap measure of health and fitness anyway, but let's also prevent them from having an experience which includes all kinds of activities that are, gasp, exercise, and would do nothing but improve their health!
Dropping a sedentary, morbidly obese child into the middle of nowhere and expecting them to hike 50 miles up mountains, kayak, zipline, etc with no easy way out and no guides helping every step of the way is not a good idea nor the kind of exercise a kid that size needs.0 -
Logic? What's that? Let's not only discriminate against fat kids based on BMI, which is a crap measure of health and fitness anyway, but let's also prevent them from having an experience which includes all kinds of activities that are, gasp, exercise, and would do nothing but improve their health!
It is not just BMI. BMI is the guideline and the scout or adult still needs a sign off from a doctor to go. I also have to have medical forms filled out by a doctor and in the past have not been signed off by my doctor to BSA camp.
This Camp is at 10,500 feet and designed to make scouters walk a lot more then normal camp. (roughly 10 miles a day to move in and around camp for events) if a doctor is not willing to sign off a kid, that is not discrimination, but medical.
As I stated earlier, my scout group is going on a three day backpacking trip at 7,500 and all of us had to have our medical forms filled out. we have two kids who are either at 40+ or dang close, but are active and have a doctor's sign off.
My group also just came back from a week at a summer camp, that was active and attended by scouts of all sizes.0 -
Let's address the issue here: if the obese kids can't participate, then why should they be scouts? If it's to build camraderie and to be more social, then singling them out to be banned for participating isn't achieving that. Logically they shouldn't be on the 50 mile hike, climb, etc, but as mentioned there can be an alternative challenge.
What about boy scouts who have prosthetics? Or who are blind? Or cerebral palsy? They banned too?
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Let's address the issue here: if the obese kids can't participate, then why should they be scouts? If it's to build camraderie and to be more social, then singling them out to be banned for participating isn't achieving that. Logically they shouldn't be on the 50 mile hike, climb, etc, but as mentioned there can be an alternative challenge.
What about boy scouts who have prosthetics? Or who are blind? Or cerebral palsy? They banned too?
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::claps:: Thank you. Could not agree more.0 -
Let's address the issue here: if the obese kids can't participate, then why should they be scouts? If it's to build camraderie and to be more social, then singling them out to be banned for participating isn't achieving that. Logically they shouldn't be on the 50 mile hike, climb, etc, but as mentioned there can be an alternative challenge.
What about boy scouts who have prosthetics? Or who are blind? Or cerebral palsy? They banned too?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
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From THIS PARTICULAR NATIONAL EVENT? probably so. They are NOT banned from boy scouts, they are banned from ONE event in which it is not safe for them to participate in. They should be scouts because they get to do EVERY OTHER event that isn't even in the same ball park of danger, and exertion that this one is. I have no idea why this is hard for you people to understand. It isn't safe, practical and would put the BSA at great risk for law suits and sky rocketed insurance premiums.
It's kind of like why I (at 6'11") can't ride certain rides at a theme park. Why not? I am a perfectly healthy adult that can fit in the ride and get my safety harness buckled. I can't ride it because the manufacturer's put a max height limit on the ride in order to prevent injury, law suits and extreme insurance premiums. Well why should I even go to the theme park? Because I can participate in all of the other rides that are made to accomodate someone my size. I suppose they should make me a "special cart" on the ONE ride that I want to ride though so it's safe.0 -
If it's ONE event, then I will agree. But it's the entire jamboree if that's my understanding. I mean, shooting an arrow doesn't need a ton of physical ability. Learning camping skills neither. If it's ONE demanding physical event, then yes they should be not expected to participate.Let's address the issue here: if the obese kids can't participate, then why should they be scouts? If it's to build camraderie and to be more social, then singling them out to be banned for participating isn't achieving that. Logically they shouldn't be on the 50 mile hike, climb, etc, but as mentioned there can be an alternative challenge.
What about boy scouts who have prosthetics? Or who are blind? Or cerebral palsy? They banned too?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
From THIS PARTICULAR NATIONAL EVENT? probably so. They are NOT banned from boy scouts, they are banned from ONE event in which it is not safe for them to participate in. They should be scouts because they get to do EVERY OTHER event that isn't even in the same ball park of danger, and exertion that this one is. I have no idea why this is hard for you people to understand. It isn't safe, practical and would put the BSA at great risk for law suits and sky rocketed insurance premiums.
It's kind of like why I (at 6'11") can't ride certain rides at a theme park. Why not? I am a perfectly healthy adult that can fit in the ride and get my safety harness buckled. I can't ride it because the manufacturer's put a max height limit on the ride in order to prevent injury, law suits and extreme insurance premiums. Well why should I even go to the theme park? Because I can participate in all of the other rides that are made to accomodate someone my size. I suppose they should make me a "special cart" on the ONE ride that I want to ride though so it's safe.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I'm an Eagle Scout too, OP, but I'm totally on board with this. It's not discrimination, it's trying to protect children from health risks. Do we really think it's good to encourage kids to be 100 lbs overweight? To have a BMI of 40+? That's just scary!
"To be eligible for this year's mass gathering, tens of thousands of Scouts (and their leaders) had to meet standards for Body Mass Index and other health factors. Scouts whose BMI was 40 or above were banned from the 10,600-acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, while those between 32 and 39.9 had to submit medical information to be approved."
I say good for the BSA - they're trying to be proactive on a major issue and help their members better themselves!
Edited to add - If I'd attended this as a Boy Scout, I would have had to have weighed 270 pounds to be excluded. And at 16 years old, it would have been totally right to exclude my fat butt for my own good!0 -
I'm an Eagle Scout too, OP, but I'm totally on board with this. It's not discrimination, it's trying to protect children from health risks. Do we really think it's good to encourage kids to be 100 lbs overweight? To have a BMI of 40+? That's just scary!
"To be eligible for this year's mass gathering, tens of thousands of Scouts (and their leaders) had to meet standards for Body Mass Index and other health factors. Scouts whose BMI was 40 or above were banned from the 10,600-acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, while those between 32 and 39.9 had to submit medical information to be approved."
I say good for the BSA - they're trying to be proactive on a major issue and help their members better themselves!
Edited to add - If I'd attended this as a Boy Scout, I would have had to have weighed 270 pounds to be excluded. And at 16 years old, it would have been totally right to exclude my fat butt for my own good!
QFT0 -
This makes me soooooo mad, my 10 year old daughter is heavy but very very active, she plays soccer and basketball and loves to swim. She may not be able to run fast or do some things but just because she is chunky doesn't mean she can't do a lot of things that my twig of a daughter couln't do because she is not as active. People need to wake up and think about things before they take a stupid action like this---makes me want to scream in there face.
Is your dauhter a BMI of 40+, morbidly obese? If she plays soccer I am willing to bet that she isn't. If not, then this rule effects her 0%. You sell insurance, you should know that these risks, as well as obesity, the chance of getting sued, etc raise these insurnace premiums. Why should a PRIVATE organization take on more costs, risks, etc in order to cater to children who are dangerously obese?
I think you are totally being incompetent about this whole thing, maybe you were never overweight as a kid but a lot of us know what its like and being excluded in one thing may not mean anything to some people but to someone that gets picked last all the time in gym class because they are "the fat kid" and someone that gets pushed around all the time because people are jerks, then yes being excluded from one thing is a big deal. Maybe you should take in to account the feelings of these kids, who is to say they won't be able to do it. I think the only ones that would be able to say if they can do it or not is themselves or there parents. Its wrong to exclude certain people from things and to top it all off something like this is healthy for these kids and helpful. I don't know what my daughter BMI is because it not something that I would say is important for a 10 year old to know if they are active and don't have health issues already.0 -
What's QFT?0
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What's QFT?
quoted for truth0 -
This makes me soooooo mad, my 10 year old daughter is heavy but very very active, she plays soccer and basketball and loves to swim. She may not be able to run fast or do some things but just because she is chunky doesn't mean she can't do a lot of things that my twig of a daughter couln't do because she is not as active. People need to wake up and think about things before they take a stupid action like this---makes me want to scream in there face.
Is your dauhter a BMI of 40+, morbidly obese? If she plays soccer I am willing to bet that she isn't. If not, then this rule effects her 0%. You sell insurance, you should know that these risks, as well as obesity, the chance of getting sued, etc raise these insurnace premiums. Why should a PRIVATE organization take on more costs, risks, etc in order to cater to children who are dangerously obese?
I think you are totally being incompetent about this whole thing, maybe you were never overweight as a kid but a lot of us know what its like and being excluded in one thing may not mean anything to some people but to someone that gets picked last all the time in gym class because they are "the fat kid" and someone that gets pushed around all the time because people are jerks, then yes being excluded from one thing is a big deal. Maybe you should take in to account the feelings of these kids, who is to say they won't be able to do it. I think the only ones that would be able to say if they can do it or not is themselves or there parents. Its wrong to exclude certain people from things and to top it all off something like this is healthy for these kids and helpful. I don't know what my daughter BMI is because it not something that I would say is important for a 10 year old to know if they are active and don't have health issues already.
I am being "Not having the necessary skills to do something successfully" about this? That doesn't even make sense. Anyway, I actually was overweight as a kid, I was nowhere near a 40 BMI though, that's being as wide as you are tall in a lot of cases, especially for kids. You are thinking emotionally and not rationally about this. Why in any logical manner should a child that is morbidly obese be allowed to try to participate in this event? Have you read up on the event AT ALL? It's 50+ miles in the mountains, kayaking, zip lines, rought terrain, etc in the middle of nowhere. If they can't keep going, pass out, get sick, etc they can't just be put in a John Deere Gator and taken back to camp for medical attention, they are stuck in the middle of nowhere possibly without an adult even in sight. They can do EVERYTHING else in boy scouts, just not this one event that is not made for kids that size. BMI is easy to calculate and if your daughter is at 40 she isn't active and is in GREAT danger of health problems. We aren't talking about kids that are fat or chubby here, we are talking about KIDS that are 100 or more pounds overweight, carrying this weight around on growing and undeveloped bones. It is not in any way healthy what so ever.
Here is a generic chart showing examples of certain BMI. Take a look at the 40 range. I know BMI isn't a great measure for very muscular athletes, but that situation makes a fraction of a percentage of the people that actually fall into this BMI range, the rest are morbidly obese.
I didn't notice until I posted the link that it's actually referring to this particular topic. Read that article and tell me why this is not a good idea from the BSA.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/17446/20130716/obese-boy-scouts-national-jamboree-bmi-obesity.htm0 -
Let's address the issue here: if the obese kids can't participate, then why should they be scouts? If it's to build camraderie and to be more social, then singling them out to be banned for participating isn't achieving that. Logically they shouldn't be on the 50 mile hike, climb, etc, but as mentioned there can be an alternative challenge.
What about boy scouts who have prosthetics? Or who are blind? Or cerebral palsy? They banned too?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
From THIS PARTICULAR NATIONAL EVENT? probably so. They are NOT banned from boy scouts, they are banned from ONE event in which it is not safe for them to participate in. They should be scouts because they get to do EVERY OTHER event that isn't even in the same ball park of danger, and exertion that this one is. I have no idea why this is hard for you people to understand. It isn't safe, practical and would put the BSA at great risk for law suits and sky rocketed insurance premiums.
It's kind of like why I (at 6'11") can't ride certain rides at a theme park. Why not? I am a perfectly healthy adult that can fit in the ride and get my safety harness buckled. I can't ride it because the manufacturer's put a max height limit on the ride in order to prevent injury, law suits and extreme insurance premiums. Well why should I even go to the theme park? Because I can participate in all of the other rides that are made to accomodate someone my size. I suppose they should make me a "special cart" on the ONE ride that I want to ride though so it's safe.
At 6'5" my husband could join you on the special cart.
He's waited in line for hours with my daughter only to get into the car and be told told that the harness does not secure him safely.
Did he cry foul?
Nope, he's graciously exited and was thankful he wasn't allowed to be put in a potentially dangerous situation.
Does anyone have the numbers on 40+ BMI kids who attempted to register for the Jamboree but were turned down?0 -
If a kid has a BMI of 40+, the parents need to be taking the blame instead of putting it on the boy scouts.0
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If a kid has a BMI of 40+, the parents need to be taking the blame instead of putting it on the boy scouts.
Very much so0 -
If it's ONE event, then I will agree. But it's the entire jamboree if that's my understanding. I mean, shooting an arrow doesn't need a ton of physical ability. Learning camping skills neither. If it's ONE demanding physical event, then yes they should be not expected to participate.
The Jamboree site is at 10,500 feet. BSA rules states that for all high adventure camping trips, scouts need a medical sign off to attend events such as this. a scout or adult could be excluded for health related reason link to weight, physical attributes, diseases or any other reason their DOCTOR does not feel they are fit for camp.
As I have stated, my troop has several boys who over or near 40 bmi (and not because they are 16 year old football players/body builders), but their doctors have signed off and said they can attend. I was not signed off by my doctor several years ago due to him not like the looks of my blood test. at the scout camp I spent last week at there were numerous overweight (very big) scouts.
This policy has been in place for at least the 8 years I have been in scouting. It is just this is the first time that the National Jamboree is taking place at it new location (with the 10,500 feet elevation) and this one aspect of the medical sign off has been picked up by the press.0
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