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May we talk about set points?
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@DebSozo noone knows more than me how hard it was to lose those last 10lbs, I lost at a snails pace, as little as 1/4lb some weeks, then some weeks nothing. It's not impossible but it is hard and it takes diligence in tracking our intake and not over estimating our burns. So basically almost a year for me to lose 10 measly pounds and harder probably because of being in my 40s. But that was in 2012...a long time ago, but those pounds are still history.
Weight training will definately help you, it'll define your shape more for one thing and you'll look smaller/trimmer.
Just take it day by day, slow and steady and the good news is, once those pounds go, they'll be more likely to stay off (as long as not consistently eating over maintenance of course).
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »@DebSozo noone knows more than me how hard it was to lose those last 10lbs, I lost at a snails pace, as little as 1/4lb some weeks, then some weeks nothing. It's not impossible but it is hard and it takes diligence in tracking our intake and not over estimating our burns. So basically almost a year for me to lose 10 measly pounds and harder probably because of being in my 40s. But that was in 2012...a long time ago, but those pounds are still history.
Weight training will definately help you, it'll define your shape more for one thing and you'll look smaller/trimmer.
Just take it day by day, slow and steady and the good news is, once those pounds go, they'll be more likely to stay off (as long as not consistently eating over maintenance of course).
Thank you for your encouragement. As difficult as it is, I'm not giving up! I do recomp and noticed a change for sure. Love it!
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Christine_72 wrote: »They push their plate away with food still on it (gasp)
.
We had one of those
types over for dinner last night. She left 1/4 of the food on her plate and pushed it away. My first thought was Panic! Panic! She didn't like her meal. But no, she said she was full and that was that, and yes she is thin. And here i was on the opposite side of the table licking my plate clean 
She listens to her body.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
How much weight you want to lose is up to you. How tall are you?
What routine do you run for strength training? I just started running a new one myself. I'm terrible, I keep program hopping because I always find a stumbling block with something I don't like. I'm curious how you built muscle mass, how long have you been lifting? How did you develop this muscle mass? It usually take concerted effort and many years to develop.
Once again, to be clear, because I'm not sure I have your point of reference here, are you referring to "set point" as a point where the body's hunger/satiety cues regulate a certain weight and presuming that any conscientious intervention needed in the process is not "natural"?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
Nah. I don't do stuff like that. I'm relentless in debates but that's not my style. I remember Sir Topham hat because my kids loved Thomas.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
Nah. I don't do stuff like that. I'm relentless in debates but that's not my style. I remember Sir Topham hat because my kids loved Thomas.
I had taken my son on the Thomas the Train Ride and my MIL took the unflattering photo. Lol. I remember thinking, "I'd best lose some weight because I look just like Sir Topham." I probably shouldn't have posted it as a joke to myself on profile though as it was me at my heaviest.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
Once again, to be clear, because I'm not sure I have your point of reference here, are you referring to "set point" as a point where the body's hunger/satiety cues regulate a certain weight and presuming that any conscientious intervention needed in the process is not "natural"?
No. I already gave the definition way upthread.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
Once again, to be clear, because I'm not sure I have your point of reference here, are you referring to "set point" as a point where the body's hunger/satiety cues regulate a certain weight and presuming that any conscientious intervention needed in the process is not "natural"?
No. I already gave the definition way upthread.
Sorry, but that seems to be the way you are arguing them. I read back, can you just refresh my memory, without a link please, in your own words, what you think a set point is? Because I'm frankly baffled how something "set" can be changed. And how a biological ...thing... is something only some people have.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
Nah. I don't do stuff like that. I'm relentless in debates but that's not my style. I remember Sir Topham hat because my kids loved Thomas.
I had taken my son on the Thomas the Train Ride and my MIL took the unflattering photo. Lol. I remember thinking, "I'd best lose some weight because I look just like Sir Topham." I probably shouldn't have posted it as a joke to myself on profile though as it was me at my heaviest.
Did you get your son all of the Thomas "stuff"? We had tons of train things, a train table -- that was some expensive gear! I used to love playing with it, though.0 -
Okay, then let me ask you this, how are you defining homeostasis?0
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
Nah. I don't do stuff like that. I'm relentless in debates but that's not my style. I remember Sir Topham hat because my kids loved Thomas.
The reason that I thought it was you in the private message is because you used the same phrase "making this up as you go along" in this thread as well as the private message. Also you are the only person who has ever referenced my Sir Topham pic in messaging and open forum. So, I apologize if the 2 connections are coincidental. I can assure you that I am not making things up.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »hotel4dogs wrote: »Do others believe in "set points"? I have been reading a bit about them, and I think I have hit one. It seems that there are several weights that my body just likes, and it's harder to either lose or gain weight when I'm at a set point.
I think it's what makes maintaining so hard, if you are not at a "set point".
Here's some background information:
http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/BIDMCInteractive/BreakThroughYourSetPoint/WeekOneTheScienceofSetPoint.aspx
It appears that some people do not believe that the body forms them. But my body likes to settle in at certain points and will stay within a 4 pound span.
Sure. It has nothing to do with your eating or exercise habits. Nothing at all.
Right.
Of course it does. I have repeatedly said that it works together. Some people seem to think that it is only about "habits".
That's because it is. The body responds to the habits.
You seem to derive comfort from this notion of your body being this...entity somewhat our of youf control, perhaps due to your issues in your own journey with weight loss.
Everyone else's experience is not enough to sway you from your firmly held beliefs and force you to examine your own behaviors with an honest lens.
There have been points where I have been tempted to comfort myself that I was at a sticking point with my weight. You and your buddy Gianfranco seem to think those of use arguing against you have never struggled with plateaus.
Quite the contrary.
I have been tempted, as I said, to comfort myself with some notion of set point, but I could never get past what I knew factually about energy balance, The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, and people like anorexics. So I always concluded that I had to be the problem instead of continuing to look for outside excuses for my plateaus. You know what? It was always something. I was slacking in training, or logging, or sneaking bites of food. It wasn't always conscious behavior on my part, but once I fixed it, I was over the weird point I swore my body was insisting it was stuck at.
Maybe Deb, just maybe, that's where you're at. And I'm sorry. I remember your profile pictures. You're a lovely woman, but you are not at anything near a low body fat percentage where I'd believe a body would naturally settle that would not respond to a reasonably applied calorie deficit and some extra activity.
Maybe, just maybe I am not "comforting" myself about set points. Perhaps I am lamenting that my set point has gotten higher over the years, and I am having a difficult time lowering it.
I realize that my body no longer works with me as well to lose as it once did. So, yes, I must artificially use a kitchen scale and MFP to track calories and macros when I want to lose. Otherwise it is very likely I will gain back the 10 pounds I already lost battling the muffin top . I still need to lose another 10 pounds. It has been difficult with gaining and losing the same 4 pounds over and over.
I do believe that weight training and upping my TDEE will help get the last 10 pounds off. I do think if I can get the weight off and keep it off within a very small set point maintenance weight window that my body will eventually adjust and work to keep the weight off. But I am having a difficult time with these last 10 pounds.
GottaBurnEmAll I remember the private message i suspect you sent me accusing me of needing to lose more than 10 pounds. The previous picture you remember was my "before" weight with Sir Topham Hat. I put that up as a profile pic because I thought that it would be a good deterrent to my regain. I was overweight and at 25 BMI in that photo, have naturally chubby cheeks, and was covered with a jacket. You seem relentless to attack my credibility but I assure you that I am not lying.
About a year after the Sir Topham photo, I lost 10 pounds I got into my current normal BMI which is 24.3. I admit I need to lose 10 more pounds to get into 23 BMI or so. I used to be 22 BMI years ago which looked lean on me because of higher muscle mass from strength training. I will be satisfied to maintain after losing 10 more pounds and hopefully establish a new and lower set point when I hit that goal. I'm going to give myself a year as I lose very slowly.
What private message are you talking about? That wasn't me.
It was around the time you were dogging me on the threads last topic, so I thought it was you.
Nah. I don't do stuff like that. I'm relentless in debates but that's not my style. I remember Sir Topham hat because my kids loved Thomas.
The reason that I thought it was you in the private message is because you used the same phrase "making this up as you go along" in this thread as well as the private message. Also you are the only person who has ever referenced my Sir Topham pic in messaging and open forum. So, I apologize if the 2 connections are coincidental. I can assure you that I am not making things up.
Well, "making things up as you go along" is rather a common turn of phrase.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And also, how would "set point" work with people who lost weight for 6 months, then gained back a significant amount. Is it their body wanting to be fat again? Or is it because they discontinued their habit of staying in control of calories?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The thing that I've realized is that what DebSozo is arguing about is not a "set point", but rather about hunger/satiety signals regulating different weight levels.
She believes that people can retrain their hunger and satiety signals to achieve different certain weights so that you don't have to consciously regulate them.
Of course, if this logic played out and set point was a matter of hunger/satiety signals being in check and humming along smoothly leading to a desirable body weight ... why did she gain weight in the first place? How did her hunger/satiety signals get overridden?
To be clear, the point I'm making in pointing that out is the flaw in her logic that relying on hunger/satiety signals (or as she keeps saying, "autoregulation") as some sort of set point ignores very real factors like aging, an obesogenic environment, stress, and other things I'm sure I can't think of right now. These outside influences often override the feedback systems our body has in place, and since that can be done, it argues clearly against the idea of anything being "set".
Those overriding factors are what disrupt the maintenance set point. Stress, disease, injuries, and aging do have an impact.
"Set point"
Homeostasis-- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/set-point
The OP used the word. This is the topic. Lol.
Here is a video that explains it better than I can:
http://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-homeostasis-definition-examples-quiz.html
This is the definition of homeostasis. --which I also posted upthread. This is getting tedious.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And also, how would "set point" work with people who lost weight for 6 months, then gained back a significant amount. Is it their body wanting to be fat again? Or is it because they discontinued their habit of staying in control of calories?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The thing that I've realized is that what DebSozo is arguing about is not a "set point", but rather about hunger/satiety signals regulating different weight levels.
She believes that people can retrain their hunger and satiety signals to achieve different certain weights so that you don't have to consciously regulate them.
Of course, if this logic played out and set point was a matter of hunger/satiety signals being in check and humming along smoothly leading to a desirable body weight ... why did she gain weight in the first place? How did her hunger/satiety signals get overridden?
To be clear, the point I'm making in pointing that out is the flaw in her logic that relying on hunger/satiety signals (or as she keeps saying, "autoregulation") as some sort of set point ignores very real factors like aging, an obesogenic environment, stress, and other things I'm sure I can't think of right now. These outside influences often override the feedback systems our body has in place, and since that can be done, it argues clearly against the idea of anything being "set".
Those overriding factors are what disrupt the maintenance set point. Stress, disease, injuries, and aging do have an impact.
"Set point"
Homeostasis-- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/set-point
The OP used the word. This is the topic. Lol.
Here is a video that explains it better than I can:
http://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-homeostasis-definition-examples-quiz.html
This is the definition of homeostasis. --which I also posted upthread. This is getting tedious.
This is getting tedious because you said no to my question when I defined autoregulation about hunger/satiety cues regulating weight, Deb.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And also, how would "set point" work with people who lost weight for 6 months, then gained back a significant amount. Is it their body wanting to be fat again? Or is it because they discontinued their habit of staying in control of calories?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The thing that I've realized is that what DebSozo is arguing about is not a "set point", but rather about hunger/satiety signals regulating different weight levels.
She believes that people can retrain their hunger and satiety signals to achieve different certain weights so that you don't have to consciously regulate them.
Of course, if this logic played out and set point was a matter of hunger/satiety signals being in check and humming along smoothly leading to a desirable body weight ... why did she gain weight in the first place? How did her hunger/satiety signals get overridden?
To be clear, the point I'm making in pointing that out is the flaw in her logic that relying on hunger/satiety signals (or as she keeps saying, "autoregulation") as some sort of set point ignores very real factors like aging, an obesogenic environment, stress, and other things I'm sure I can't think of right now. These outside influences often override the feedback systems our body has in place, and since that can be done, it argues clearly against the idea of anything being "set".
Those overriding factors are what disrupt the maintenance set point. Stress, disease, injuries, and aging do have an impact.
"Set point"
Homeostasis-- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/set-point
The OP used the word. This is the topic. Lol.
Here is a video that explains it better than I can:
http://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-homeostasis-definition-examples-quiz.html
This is the definition of homeostasis. --which I also posted upthread. This is getting tedious.
This is getting tedious because you said no to my question when I defined autoregulation about hunger/satiety cues regulating weight, Deb.
THe body regulates the set point. The hunger follows. Hunger does not regulate a certain weight. That is what my no was directed to.
If one is operating at a set point hunger is a tool one can use if it is working properly. The problem is that if the set point is too high you will maintain high if you follow hunger signals.
However hunger will drive you back up to previous set point if you don't work hard to maintain the new one for some time.
Nonetheless if I were at my happy weight set point long term then my hunger would "naturally" work to maintain my new and lower set point.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And also, how would "set point" work with people who lost weight for 6 months, then gained back a significant amount. Is it their body wanting to be fat again? Or is it because they discontinued their habit of staying in control of calories?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The thing that I've realized is that what DebSozo is arguing about is not a "set point", but rather about hunger/satiety signals regulating different weight levels.
She believes that people can retrain their hunger and satiety signals to achieve different certain weights so that you don't have to consciously regulate them.
Of course, if this logic played out and set point was a matter of hunger/satiety signals being in check and humming along smoothly leading to a desirable body weight ... why did she gain weight in the first place? How did her hunger/satiety signals get overridden?
To be clear, the point I'm making in pointing that out is the flaw in her logic that relying on hunger/satiety signals (or as she keeps saying, "autoregulation") as some sort of set point ignores very real factors like aging, an obesogenic environment, stress, and other things I'm sure I can't think of right now. These outside influences often override the feedback systems our body has in place, and since that can be done, it argues clearly against the idea of anything being "set".
Those overriding factors are what disrupt the maintenance set point. Stress, disease, injuries, and aging do have an impact.
"Set point"
Homeostasis-- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/set-point
The OP used the word. This is the topic. Lol.
Here is a video that explains it better than I can:
http://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-homeostasis-definition-examples-quiz.html
This is the definition of homeostasis. --which I also posted upthread. This is getting tedious.
This is getting tedious because you said no to my question when I defined autoregulation about hunger/satiety cues regulating weight, Deb.
THe body regulates the set point. The hunger follows. Hunger does not regulate a certain weight. That is what my no was directed to. If one is operating at a set point hunger is a tool one can use if it is working properly. The problem is that if the set point is too high you will maintain high if you follow hunger signals.
Well, that makes no sense and is why the argument for set points falls apart.
See if set points exist, they exist for everyone. You cannot say a biological imperative only exists for certain people. Biology doesn't work that way. People aren't special snowflakes.
So the hunger aspect of them which plays part in the regulation of the set point either works for everyone, or the argument for set points falls apart.3 -
You do have to override set points artificially at first to change them.
0 -
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