Open Q&A
Replies
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singingflutelady wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
I understand a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients and satiety, that I undersand.
But you are saying that the ability/inability to absorb certain nutrients can cause CICO not to work?
I've suffered malabsorption and maintained while eating a high number of calories but it was still cico because, as I said, I wasn't absorbing all the calories so those calories I didn't absorb didn't count as CI.
I can see that but does it work in the reverse?
Meaning can you absorb or not absorb a nutrient in a deficit and not lose? Seems like if you have an malabsorption issue it would just go to waste.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
I understand a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients and satiety, that I undersand.
But you are saying that the ability/inability to absorb certain nutrients can cause CICO not to work?
I've suffered malabsorption and maintained while eating a high number of calories but it was still cico because, as I said, I wasn't absorbing all the calories so those calories I didn't absorb didn't count as CI.
I can see that but does it work in the reverse?
Meaning can you absorb or not absorb a nutrient in a deficit and not lose? Seems like if you have an malabsorption issue it would just go to waste.
Oh you would definitely lose. I lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks from bmi 20 to bmi 16.7 just lying in bed (and tmi pooping a lot) eating 1200 during a bad Crohn's flare. Obviously a lot of fluid since you pooping 30 times a day but I think since my gi system was overactive and super rapid I think most of the calories went right through me. It was the 16.7 bmi I maintained while eating a lot (I was also on Prednisone so yes I ate a lot) though I still had the um other issue0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Thank you for speaking truth! CICO is all that seems to be discussed around here. We need to expand our way of thinking.
He said CICO isn't everything, which is true. He didn't say that people can't lose weight because of toxins.
:laugh:
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singingflutelady wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
I understand a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients and satiety, that I undersand.
But you are saying that the ability/inability to absorb certain nutrients can cause CICO not to work?
I've suffered malabsorption and maintained while eating a high number of calories but it was still cico because, as I said, I wasn't absorbing all the calories so those calories I didn't absorb didn't count as CI.
I can see that but does it work in the reverse?
Meaning can you absorb or not absorb a nutrient in a deficit and not lose? Seems like if you have an malabsorption issue it would just go to waste.
Some people have microbiota that are more efficient at helping us absorb nutrients from our food than the average calorie counts would suggest, but it's not a huge effect.0 -
I should say the only thing that stopped the weight loss before I was able to eat the massive amount of calories and not gain was TPN (nutrition through a picc line that bypasses the gi tract and goes directly to the heart). Otherwise I would have starved to death. Ironically when eating the 1200 I had a high protein intake and my blood work was horrible and surprisingly my albumin (blood protein level) was very low.0
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My lightbulb just went on re CICO a couple of months ago. And for someone to come on here and just say "its more complex" and "its a herd mentality in this forum" that is in this field without going into detail kinda bummed me out.
I totally get that there are behaviors, habits and psychological reasons someone can't consume more than they burn but that's not CICO not working. That's someone who has complex issues with CI.
I'm bummed because sometimes saying things like "its more complex" makes it sound like CICO isn't true which in turn breeds the "I can't help it" mentality. I should say I'm speaking of my former self pre lightbulb:).11 -
My lightbulb just went on re CICO a couple of months ago. And for someone to come on here and just say "its more complex" and "its a herd mentality in this forum" that is in this field without going into detail kinda bummed me out.
I totally get that there are behaviors, habits and psychological reasons someone can't consume more than they burn but that's not CICO not working. That's someone who has complex issues with CI.
I'm bummed because sometimes saying things like "its more complex" makes it sound like CICO isn't true which in turn breeds the "I can't help it" mentality. I should say I'm speaking of my former self pre lightbulb:).
Yes!3 -
My lightbulb just went on re CICO a couple of months ago. And for someone to come on here and just say "its more complex" and "its a herd mentality in this forum" that is in this field without going into detail kinda bummed me out.
I totally get that there are behaviors, habits and psychological reasons someone can't consume more than they burn but that's not CICO not working. That's someone who has complex issues with CI.
I'm bummed because sometimes saying things like "its more complex" makes it sound like CICO isn't true which in turn breeds the "I can't help it" mentality. I should say I'm speaking of my former self pre lightbulb:).
I'm still waiting for details as well, not just using different words with the same definition of "eat less than you burn".
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Trying to understand macros food goal...
It gives me my allotted calories for the day. After I enter my exercise it shows that I have extra calories to eat. Do I need to eat more to loose weight or is it good to have a deficit?0 -
My lightbulb just went on re CICO a couple of months ago. And for someone to come on here and just say "its more complex" and "its a herd mentality in this forum" that is in this field without going into detail kinda bummed me out.
I totally get that there are behaviors, habits and psychological reasons someone can't consume more than they burn but that's not CICO not working. That's someone who has complex issues with CI.
I'm bummed because sometimes saying things like "its more complex" makes it sound like CICO isn't true which in turn breeds the "I can't help it" mentality. I should say I'm speaking of my former self pre lightbulb:).
Agreed.... someone saying there are other factors which can impact CICO should NOT be interpreted as "CICO is invalid" which unfortunately is what some people read into those type of responses. People want to believe there are external, mitigating factors beyond their control which hinder their ability to lose weight. They don't like hearing that while weight loss isn't easy, it is simple: CI<CO is all that is required for weight loss.6 -
I was also wondering why the "strength" portion of my workout doesn't register as my calories burned for the day?0
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MsDaniellesKMB wrote: »I was also wondering why the "strength" portion of my workout doesn't register as my calories burned for the day?
Log it as strength training under cardio1 -
What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.4
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AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
It's still not toxins6 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
CICO is the base foundation. Those other things you talk about - medical issues, hormones, medication, lack of sleep, stress, etc. are PART of the whole CICO equation. It's like saying 2+2 doesn't equal 4 because other numbers can equal 4.5 -
What exactly do you think causes your body to suffer from hormonal inbalances, water retention, side effects from medicaton, and a host of other issues that in turn effect your weight?0
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AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What exactly do you think causes your body to suffer from hormonal inbalances, water retention, side effects from medicaton, and a host of other issues that in turn effect your weight?
Lots of things. It's complicated.2 -
MsDaniellesKMB wrote: »Trying to understand macros food goal...
It gives me my allotted calories for the day. After I enter my exercise it shows that I have extra calories to eat. Do I need to eat more to loose weight or is it good to have a deficit?
You can reduce calories from TDEE and not exercise and lose body weight.
You can eat at TDEE and add activity and exercise and lose weight.
The quality of food and exercise will effect the quality of weight loss.
Figure out what your calculated TDEE is from anywhere on the web.
Look at the amount you eat daily.
If it's way lower than your TDEE you should eat some back.
Now in some instances like someone who's obese II or higher, you can eat lower for a time. At some point you'll need to come up and give your body a break. Dieting adds stress. Training adds stress. Life adds stress. How well you balance those will depend on your ultimate outcome.1 -
MsDaniellesKMB wrote: »Trying to understand macros food goal...
It gives me my allotted calories for the day. After I enter my exercise it shows that I have extra calories to eat. Do I need to eat more to loose weight or is it good to have a deficit?
You don't need to eat more to lose weight, but if you plan to lose weight at a controlled rate, then you should eat back the exercise calories HOWEVER, since the estimates for exercise calories are pretty unreliable, don't eat them all back. I stick to ~50% (except I drink them back, I like wine).
Too much of a deficit can lead to you being tired etc. Although I know I've had days where my MFP deficit has been over 1000 cals and I've not felt bad. But I have a lot of weight to lose.2 -
AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
I do have hormonal imbalances but that only makes me hungrier sometimes therefore I may eat more, I'm in control if I eat more than I burn. Explaining CICO was VERY helpful to me. It was very empowering to know I can control it but most important to me I now know how to maintain my weight loss!!!
Things that make me hungrier don't prevent my weight loss nor my maintenance, I understand CICO. Because I may FEEL hungry due to medical, behavioral, psychological, stress, lack of sleep, etc BUT I can now recognize that I can control my weight loss by eating within my calorie goal in spite of.
Caps for emphasis not yelling.
If it works for you to say CICO is not all that's cool. It was freeing and empowering to me to learn CICO.
5 -
Deleted.0
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AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
I do have hormonal imbalances but that only makes me hungrier sometimes therefore I may eat more, I'm in control if I eat more than I burn. Explaining CICO was VERY helpful to me. It was very empowering to know I can control it but most important to me I now know how to maintain my weight loss!!!
Things that make me hungrier don't prevent my weight loss nor my maintenance, I understand CICO. Because I may FEEL hungry due to medical, behavioral, psychological, stress, lack of sleep, etc BUT I can now recognize that I can control my weight loss by eating within my calorie goal in spite of.
Caps for emphasis not yelling.
If it works for you to say CICO is not all that's cool. It was freeing and empowering to me to learn CICO.
You have to stick with what you can be consistent in.
Hell I lost my weight using CICO!
1600 2 days and 2000 the rest.
Now I maintain on about 2600/day due to activity but I'm.also the healthiest I've ever been.1 -
stephenearllucas wrote: »Hi Dan...I should finish my "losing" phase at New Year's at 185 pounds and around 13% body fat (estimate). Would like to target maintaining at that weight next year while increasing both cardiovascular fitness and strength. The plan is to do progressive weightlifting and continue with a mix of elliptical, treadmill, and actual running for cardio. If I'm eating at maintenance calories (factoring in all the exercise), would 185 g protein, 75 g fat, and the balance of calories in carbohydrates be a good mix? Thanks in advance....
That's something you'll have to experiment with. Overall, 1g protein per kg will do. You could also experiment with intuitive eating or using Precision Nutrition portion control.
Experiment and understand that weight maintenance is up to 10lbs +/- your optimal weight.
As a side note, if you live near a college that teaches nutrition or exercise science, see of they have a metabolic lab. It cost a little to be tested but you'll know if you are better at metabolizing fats or carbs. Then you can tailor your nutrition from there.0 -
Yeah, but you argue that toxins cause weight gain (no proof), and detoxes and cleanses are absolutely essential (no proof). Also, you believe crap builds up in the body... you have not even provided any scientific evidence to back up your claims, either. And, you cannot name a single toxin that needs to be cleansed, but you still like to argue despite being shown countless studies. You claim those who eat treats are poisoning themselves. It's your way or the highway.AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
I personally have hormone imbalances, and am on medication that claims to cause weight gain....yet, I have lost close to 100lbs and no, I am not a special snowflake.
The only time CICO does not work for me is if I underestimate CI (by not weighing my food).5 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
I do have hormonal imbalances but that only makes me hungrier sometimes therefore I may eat more, I'm in control if I eat more than I burn. Explaining CICO was VERY helpful to me. It was very empowering to know I can control it but most important to me I now know how to maintain my weight loss!!!
Things that make me hungrier don't prevent my weight loss nor my maintenance, I understand CICO. Because I may FEEL hungry due to medical, behavioral, psychological, stress, lack of sleep, etc BUT I can now recognize that I can control my weight loss by eating within my calorie goal in spite of.
Caps for emphasis not yelling.
If it works for you to say CICO is not all that's cool. It was freeing and empowering to me to learn CICO.
You have to stick with what you can be consistent in.
Hell I lost my weight using CICO!
1600 2 days and 2000 the rest.
Now I maintain on about 2600/day due to activity but I'm.also the healthiest I've ever been.
Thanks! I'm just so happy to have an answer and understand I can control not only my loss but maintain it when I get there. I want CICO and TDEE shouted from the rooftops1 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »AntoinetteAngus wrote: »What is the point of having a forum if CICO is the only thing people want to discuss. Why do we need to read any threads if this the FULL story? We have the ultimate answer right? Just because certain conditions or circumstances may not apply to you (ie. hormonal in balances, water retention, side effects from medication etc) does not mean others don't. CI vs CO is not the only factor...people are struggling to lose weight and want answers that can help them. Let's be open to broaden our understanding.
I do have hormonal imbalances but that only makes me hungrier sometimes therefore I may eat more, I'm in control if I eat more than I burn. Explaining CICO was VERY helpful to me. It was very empowering to know I can control it but most important to me I now know how to maintain my weight loss!!!
Things that make me hungrier don't prevent my weight loss nor my maintenance, I understand CICO. Because I may FEEL hungry due to medical, behavioral, psychological, stress, lack of sleep, etc BUT I can now recognize that I can control my weight loss by eating within my calorie goal in spite of.
Caps for emphasis not yelling.
If it works for you to say CICO is not all that's cool. It was freeing and empowering to me to learn CICO.
You have to stick with what you can be consistent in.
Hell I lost my weight using CICO!
1600 2 days and 2000 the rest.
Now I maintain on about 2600/day due to activity but I'm.also the healthiest I've ever been.
Technically everyone loses weight using CICO, since it describes a thermodynamic energy balance (not a diet, not a way of eating, and not synonymous with counting calories). Anyone losing weight, gaining weight, or maintaining weight is governed by it...6 -
Sorry if I have missed this else where, but I have noticed references to Precision Nutrition a couple of times in your recent posts. Are you a PN Coach?
If not is there another calorie portioning, instead of counting, site that you could recommend that one doesn't have to pay for or does the free introductory pack PN offers cover portion control?
Cheers, h.2 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Sorry if I have missed this else where, but I have noticed references to Precision Nutrition a couple of times in your recent posts. Are you a PN Coach?
If not is there another calorie portioning, instead of counting, site that you could recommend that one doesn't have to pay for or does the free introductory pack PN offers cover portion control?
Cheers, h.
Working on my certification through them.
Excellent program that simplifies the process.0 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Sorry if I have missed this else where, but I have noticed references to Precision Nutrition a couple of times in your recent posts. Are you a PN Coach?
If not is there another calorie portioning, instead of counting, site that you could recommend that one doesn't have to pay for or does the free introductory pack PN offers cover portion control?
Cheers, h.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/calorie-control-guide0 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »
What is OP was taking Prednisone? Or any other drug that effects weight loss? You could be in a deficit and gaining weight.
Please stop hijacking this thread.
Drugs that affect weight loss do so by affecting the calories out side of CICO. If you are gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. You might think you are. An internet calculator might tell you that you are. But you're not.
Depends on the drugs. A shift in hormones could effect weight loss. Nutrient deficiency could effect weight loss. High stress can reduce RMR effecting weight loss. It's more complex than CICO. Click the link above and look through a few of the sections. Calories is a very small portion.
Outside of significant amounts of fluid retention are you aware of any condition that exists (including medication, all diseases, any hormonal dysfunction) that can cause the accumulation of tissue mass (the kind of weight gain we care about) when energy in is less than energy out?
Lack of sleep, high stress, medication can cause weight gain SS. Like I said before, people throw CICO at everything. It's not always the answer. Of course I can go with n=1 and talk about my wife who maintains her obesity eating 800-1200kcal a day. @SideSteel you of all people understand that we need to employ critical thinking and look at the total picture.
Does CICO matter? Sure? Is it everything it's cracked up to be on this forum? Absolutely not.
Then you don't understand what CICO even means.
Sure I do.
It's not the only answer when it comes to fat loss.
Then explain it please.
Energy balance
Homeostasis = energy in is the same as energy out.
Weight loss = energy in is less than energy out.
Weight gain = energy in is greater than energy out.
However, a calorie isn't a calorie due to micronutrients.
A persons ability to absorb said nutrients varies vastly from one person to another.
What have micronutrients to do with fat loss?2
This discussion has been closed.
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