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Is It Over Yet? The Perimenopause Thread

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  • Diatonic12Diatonic12 Member Posts: 25,410 Member Member Posts: 25,410 Member
    Pre can start as early as age 28 and Post can end at the age of 38. It varies with genetics, etc. My grandmother had twins at the age of 44, boy was she surprised after having 10 other children. Our mileage will always vary.

    Frozen shoulders. Very interesting. I'll share this with the neighbor man over yonder who's hiding out in his shop. He's suffering with the cold shoulder as his wife is taking a pause from men. She's mid headed towards full stop.

    Thanks for sharing.
  • LolinloggenLolinloggen Member Posts: 448 Member Member Posts: 448 Member
    I love my GPs common sense Earlier this year I was diagnosed with IBS and I am perimenopausal. I am still working around my IBS and though I am doing well I am still very much learning the signals and my triggers.
    When I had my annual contraception pill check and told het that my mum had her last period at 56 She just looked at me and said "Keep that pill going for a year longer You first need to be rebalance your bowels and then we can discuss the next imbalance".
    Phew that is a relief to have a GP with common sense.
  • sportygal1971sportygal1971 Member, Premium Posts: 55 Member Member, Premium Posts: 55 Member
    2 years ago the hot flashes started and freaking 15 lb gain & bellyfat. (My nutrition/exercise was ok, so I do believe gain was from menopausal symptoms)
    It's been a battle and between broken leg and covid I'm still trying to change body comp.
    It's freaking annoying but whatever..just can't wait to not have to buy feminine hygiene products, but my luck I'll need bladder shields 🙄
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,470 Member Member Posts: 23,470 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Well, I learned something new in the menopause symptoms department: frozen shoulder, or adhesive capsulitis.
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

    Orthopedic surgeon said it is triggered by hormone imbalance: insulin (diabetes), thyroid (hypo- or hyper) or menopause (!). He said most of his patients are postmenopausal women. I'm not, but I'm hoping to reach the 1-year mark within a year. 166 days is my longest stretch, and I'm presently approaching that for the 3rd time. Bright spot is nothing is torn or requires surgery, but it is very painful and takes 1-2 years to be back to normal. So depressing. Ceased all strength training 2 months ago. Have dozens of tedious exercises for it, and they HURT. Inflamed ligaments deep in the joint won't stretch, and that is what restricts range of motion. The only thing that speeds recovery, he says, is a steroid shot deep in the joint. That sounds pretty unpleasant, too. It's my next step if insufficient progress after 2 month of exercises. I asked if there were other joints that experience ligament "freezing" due to hormone imbalance, and he said no. He is a shoulder specialist, though.

    Anyone else experience this?

    Not sure if related, but I've had golfer's elbow for two years in December :(
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,470 Member Member Posts: 23,470 Member
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Anyone have the uterine artery embolization procedure for fibroids? I had a consult with a radiologist and towards the end he said, "Or you could just wait for menopause." It has to be close!

    I don't want a hysterectomy and every time I read about the possible adverse effects of UAE I don't want that either. All the doctor could tell me about the possibility of those happening was "less than 1%." I'd like more clarity on that 1 in 101 is a lot different from 1 in 10,000 or 100,000.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_artery_embolization#Adverse_effects
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 379 Member Member Posts: 379 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Well, I learned something new in the menopause symptoms department: frozen shoulder, or adhesive capsulitis.
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

    Orthopedic surgeon said it is triggered by hormone imbalance: insulin (diabetes), thyroid (hypo- or hyper) or menopause (!). He said most of his patients are postmenopausal women. I'm not, but I'm hoping to reach the 1-year mark within a year. 166 days is my longest stretch, and I'm presently approaching that for the 3rd time. Bright spot is nothing is torn or requires surgery, but it is very painful and takes 1-2 years to be back to normal. So depressing. Ceased all strength training 2 months ago. Have dozens of tedious exercises for it, and they HURT. Inflamed ligaments deep in the joint won't stretch, and that is what restricts range of motion. The only thing that speeds recovery, he says, is a steroid shot deep in the joint. That sounds pretty unpleasant, too. It's my next step if insufficient progress after 2 month of exercises. I asked if there were other joints that experience ligament "freezing" due to hormone imbalance, and he said no. He is a shoulder specialist, though.

    Anyone else experience this?

    I also experienced frozen shoulder at menopause - started when I was 49 and lasted about 2 years. First shoulder froze completely and was excruciatingly painful (I’ve had 2 herniated discs and three 10 lb babies and this was the worst) and did loads of therapy. I honestly think it was just time that helped. By the time I got to the specialist that shoulder was already thawing and the other one was starting to freeze. I had three cortisone shots in the second one and it never froze completely like the first one - I still needed physio on it though. I am now 55 and have close to 100 % mobility, just a slight imbalance. If it is early enough the cortisone can help. (Idk of it is too late I know this is an older post just saw it).
  • ahoy_m8ahoy_m8 Member Posts: 2,230 Member Member Posts: 2,230 Member
    T
    33gail33 wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Well, I learned something new in the menopause symptoms department: frozen shoulder, or adhesive capsulitis.
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

    Orthopedic surgeon said it is triggered by hormone imbalance: insulin (diabetes), thyroid (hypo- or hyper) or menopause (!). He said most of his patients are postmenopausal women. I'm not, but I'm hoping to reach the 1-year mark within a year. 166 days is my longest stretch, and I'm presently approaching that for the 3rd time. Bright spot is nothing is torn or requires surgery, but it is very painful and takes 1-2 years to be back to normal. So depressing. Ceased all strength training 2 months ago. Have dozens of tedious exercises for it, and they HURT. Inflamed ligaments deep in the joint won't stretch, and that is what restricts range of motion. The only thing that speeds recovery, he says, is a steroid shot deep in the joint. That sounds pretty unpleasant, too. It's my next step if insufficient progress after 2 month of exercises. I asked if there were other joints that experience ligament "freezing" due to hormone imbalance, and he said no. He is a shoulder specialist, though.

    Anyone else experience this?

    I also experienced frozen shoulder at menopause - started when I was 49 and lasted about 2 years. First shoulder froze completely and was excruciatingly painful (I’ve had 2 herniated discs and three 10 lb babies and this was the worst) and did loads of therapy. I honestly think it was just time that helped. By the time I got to the specialist that shoulder was already thawing and the other one was starting to freeze. I had three cortisone shots in the second one and it never froze completely like the first one - I still needed physio on it though. I am now 55 and have close to 100 % mobility, just a slight imbalance. If it is early enough the cortisone can help. (Idk of it is too late I know this is an older post just saw it).

    Thanks for commenting and you have my sympathy for having it in BOTH shoulders. So glad it resolved for you. Mine did too! The exercises were pretty awful but they did the trick in about 6 months. Soooo grateful for that. Interesting perspective on comparative pain.
  • Machka9Machka9 Member Posts: 18,383 Member Member Posts: 18,383 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,470 Member Member Posts: 23,470 Member
    Machka9 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

    How old are you now?

    I do have some of those symptoms, but I think the anxiety was more likely caused by COVID, losing my job, and the uncertainty about unemployment benefits, and the hair loss to my big anemia episode last summer plus the aforementioned stress, etc.

    My periods are the most regular they've been in my life, lol. There was a change though - for decades they used to be more like 5-6 weeks apart, and are now very close if not exactly 28 days apart.

    What I mean is I don't have any of the "can only be explained by menopause" symptoms like hot flashes, missing periods (in the absence of undereating, which is not a thing for me, lol), and FSH level increases.
  • try2againtry2again Member Posts: 3,550 Member Member Posts: 3,550 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Machka9 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

    How old are you now?

    I do have some of those symptoms, but I think the anxiety was more likely caused by COVID, losing my job, and the uncertainty about unemployment benefits, and the hair loss to my big anemia episode last summer plus the aforementioned stress, etc.

    My periods are the most regular they've been in my life, lol. There was a change though - for decades they used to be more like 5-6 weeks apart, and are now very close if not exactly 28 days apart.

    What I mean is I don't have any of the "can only be explained by menopause" symptoms like hot flashes, missing periods (in the absence of undereating, which is not a thing for me, lol), and FSH level increases.

    I'm 52 and have never had a hot flash or missed a period, but have recently gone from a set-your-clock-by-it 28 days my whole life to 3 weeks and have been living in a mental & emotional fog. We should probably start referring to it as the "menopause spectrum". ;)
  • Machka9Machka9 Member Posts: 18,383 Member Member Posts: 18,383 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Machka9 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

    How old are you now?

    I do have some of those symptoms, but I think the anxiety was more likely caused by COVID, losing my job, and the uncertainty about unemployment benefits, and the hair loss to my big anemia episode last summer plus the aforementioned stress, etc.

    My periods are the most regular they've been in my life, lol. There was a change though - for decades they used to be more like 5-6 weeks apart, and are now very close if not exactly 28 days apart.

    What I mean is I don't have any of the "can only be explained by menopause" symptoms like hot flashes, missing periods (in the absence of undereating, which is not a thing for me, lol), and FSH level increases.

    I'm 54 ... as above it does seem to be a menopause spectrum.

    I've had hot flashes since my early 30s. I'm not convinced they can only be explained by menopause.
  • AntiopelleAntiopelle Member Posts: 701 Member Member Posts: 701 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Well, I learned something new in the menopause symptoms department: frozen shoulder, or adhesive capsulitis.
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

    Orthopedic surgeon said it is triggered by hormone imbalance: insulin (diabetes), thyroid (hypo- or hyper) or menopause (!). He said most of his patients are postmenopausal women. I'm not, but I'm hoping to reach the 1-year mark within a year. 166 days is my longest stretch, and I'm presently approaching that for the 3rd time. Bright spot is nothing is torn or requires surgery, but it is very painful and takes 1-2 years to be back to normal. So depressing. Ceased all strength training 2 months ago. Have dozens of tedious exercises for it, and they HURT. Inflamed ligaments deep in the joint won't stretch, and that is what restricts range of motion. The only thing that speeds recovery, he says, is a steroid shot deep in the joint. That sounds pretty unpleasant, too. It's my next step if insufficient progress after 2 month of exercises. I asked if there were other joints that experience ligament "freezing" due to hormone imbalance, and he said no. He is a shoulder specialist, though.

    Anyone else experience this?

    I am sorry I didn't see this post sooner.
    I've had my first frozen shoulder at the age of 40, which is 10 years ago. The therapy then was cortisone injections to deal with most pain and then PT. That therapy hurt so bad, I sometimes was on the verge of passing out.
    Now last year, age 50 I started to have the other shoulder to hurt like *** and I immediately knew what it was. I went to a shoulder surgeon who gave me two cortisone shots that did more damage than anything, nothing compared to the ones I got 10 years ago. I finally went to another surgeon (with a top notch reputation) and by then the worst pains were subsiding and therefore he was not pro for a third cortisone shot. He also told me that PT makes the whole thing worse as it tears the frozen ligaments apart and then they will take more time to heal. This confirmed what I already thought 10 years ago, that PT made it worse, not better.
    By now, almost a year in (yes, confinement AND frozen shoulder makes a great combo :-1: ) and my shoulder is in full freeze but with the pain almost gone.
    The second surgeon wanted to have my blood tested, but no diabetes, no thyriod probs and still a long way away from menopause.
  • Machka9Machka9 Member Posts: 18,383 Member Member Posts: 18,383 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Machka9 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

    How old are you now?

    I do have some of those symptoms, but I think the anxiety was more likely caused by COVID, losing my job, and the uncertainty about unemployment benefits, and the hair loss to my big anemia episode last summer plus the aforementioned stress, etc.

    My periods are the most regular they've been in my life, lol. There was a change though - for decades they used to be more like 5-6 weeks apart, and are now very close if not exactly 28 days apart.

    What I mean is I don't have any of the "can only be explained by menopause" symptoms like hot flashes, missing periods (in the absence of undereating, which is not a thing for me, lol), and FSH level increases.

    A few other things ...

    Possibly my first symptom was irritability ... flying off into rages and overreacting to things. I didn't know what was going on. Now that I think back, it was like how I was in my teens when everything started and the hormones were going wild.

    About the same time, I started being dizzy for a couple days before my period started. Once they started, the dizziness went away. Evidently that was another symptom, but I didn't know it at the time.

    Missing periods has been one of the last things on the list I've experienced!
  • sarah12277sarah12277 Member, Premium Posts: 74 Member Member, Premium Posts: 74 Member
    Reading the thread and seeing the discussion on vertigo answered a bit why that came up suddenly last year. When I started googling that and another symptom MS was the google answer.

    Peri makes a bit more sense for me. Cycles have been all over the place the last 2 years. Had spotting at ovulation and now it's the phantom periods with the waiting if something would actually happen that month. Having the bloating with no release is a pain.

    My mom didn't know when hers really started as she did hormones early and ended after but it's approximately within my age now. She and her mother never discussed so she didn't know for her mother.

    I'm 44.
  • ahoy_m8ahoy_m8 Member Posts: 2,230 Member Member Posts: 2,230 Member
    try2again wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Machka9 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Still no signs of menopause. I'm 54. My sister, who is two years younger, started having hot flashes two years ago and has not had a period for eight months.

    Are you sure?

    What Are The 34 Symptoms of Menopause?
    https://mpoweredwomen.net/medical/what-are-the-34-symptoms-of-menopause/


    I've been in perimenopause since my early 40s. I turn 54 next month. So ... probably about 12 years now. In that time I've gone through several phases. I didn't understand some of the early phases because I was looking for the most common symptoms like hot flashes and I wasn't experiencing much if any of them. If I had understood what was going on, those years would have been easier.

    It really wasn't until I reached about 50 before I started having hot flashes ... and haven't stopped since.

    Although even the article I linked to says, "Irregular periods are among the earlier symptoms of perimenopause in most women." but what they don't say is that in the early years, your 28-day periods might start coming every 21 days or even more frequently. In the middle they go all wonky and finally later you start missing several months of periods only to have them start again.

    In the last year I went 8 months with no periods and figured I was finally well on my way ... and then I had a full, long period in October. Now it has been 4 months without and I'm hoping this is finally it and I'll go another 8 months without. But who knows.

    How old are you now?

    I do have some of those symptoms, but I think the anxiety was more likely caused by COVID, losing my job, and the uncertainty about unemployment benefits, and the hair loss to my big anemia episode last summer plus the aforementioned stress, etc.

    My periods are the most regular they've been in my life, lol. There was a change though - for decades they used to be more like 5-6 weeks apart, and are now very close if not exactly 28 days apart.

    What I mean is I don't have any of the "can only be explained by menopause" symptoms like hot flashes, missing periods (in the absence of undereating, which is not a thing for me, lol), and FSH level increases.

    I'm 52 and have never had a hot flash or missed a period, but have recently gone from a set-your-clock-by-it 28 days my whole life to 3 weeks and have been living in a mental & emotional fog. We should probably start referring to it as the "menopause spectrum". ;)

    This was true for me too -- the going from very predictable 28-day cycle to 21-days. I don't remember the fog part :D
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 379 Member Member Posts: 379 Member
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Well, I learned something new in the menopause symptoms department: frozen shoulder, or adhesive capsulitis.
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

    Orthopedic surgeon said it is triggered by hormone imbalance: insulin (diabetes), thyroid (hypo- or hyper) or menopause (!). He said most of his patients are postmenopausal women. I'm not, but I'm hoping to reach the 1-year mark within a year. 166 days is my longest stretch, and I'm presently approaching that for the 3rd time. Bright spot is nothing is torn or requires surgery, but it is very painful and takes 1-2 years to be back to normal. So depressing. Ceased all strength training 2 months ago. Have dozens of tedious exercises for it, and they HURT. Inflamed ligaments deep in the joint won't stretch, and that is what restricts range of motion. The only thing that speeds recovery, he says, is a steroid shot deep in the joint. That sounds pretty unpleasant, too. It's my next step if insufficient progress after 2 month of exercises. I asked if there were other joints that experience ligament "freezing" due to hormone imbalance, and he said no. He is a shoulder specialist, though.

    Anyone else experience this?

    I am sorry I didn't see this post sooner.
    I've had my first frozen shoulder at the age of 40, which is 10 years ago. The therapy then was cortisone injections to deal with most pain and then PT. That therapy hurt so bad, I sometimes was on the verge of passing out.
    Now last year, age 50 I started to have the other shoulder to hurt like *** and I immediately knew what it was. I went to a shoulder surgeon who gave me two cortisone shots that did more damage than anything, nothing compared to the ones I got 10 years ago. I finally went to another surgeon (with a top notch reputation) and by then the worst pains were subsiding and therefore he was not pro for a third cortisone shot. He also told me that PT makes the whole thing worse as it tears the frozen ligaments apart and then they will take more time to heal. This confirmed what I already thought 10 years ago, that PT made it worse, not better.
    By now, almost a year in (yes, confinement AND frozen shoulder makes a great combo :-1: ) and my shoulder is in full freeze but with the pain almost gone.
    The second surgeon wanted to have my blood tested, but no diabetes, no thyriod probs and still a long way away from menopause.

    Isn't it the worst? I would some days just sit on the couch and cry from the pain. I used to go to the "massage" appointment which was torture, then it would start to calm down after a couple of days, and by then the anxiety of having to go to the next appointment would start. I honestly wouldn't wish it on anyone. Cortisone did help with my second shoulder though, it never froze completely like the first one.
    If it ever happened to me again I think I would just wait it out and let it run it's course. The first time the need to "do something" had me going to physio, massage, chiro and anyone else who I thought might help. I doubt it sped up my recovery at all. Just cost me a lot of pain and $$$
  • ahoy_m8ahoy_m8 Member Posts: 2,230 Member Member Posts: 2,230 Member
    FWIW, my shoulder surgeon said he did not have good results with patients in his practice who had PT vs. those who did prescribed exercises gently on their own (which still hurt like a *kitten*). He was happy to prescribe PT, but he said it made patients cry and did not speed recovery compared to patients who did prescribed exercises on their own.
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