cycling friendly (concealed) holster
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I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.7 -
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
The originator responded to my question about that by suggesting animals. Now whether a small personal pistol of the type identified would be enough to take a credible that down is a different question.
It was material to my answer, suggesting a frame mount. Your things to think about there would be attack direction and delivery. So not having it on the body would be a factor.2 -
I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I just say, "sit" when I encounter poodles.
I have biked in mountain lion territory without a gun. I signed waivers in Laguna Beach. I went in a group. We also have coyotes wandering around our city. They have been spotted between dusk and dawn. No attacks to humans yet. And I don't plan on being the first victim. I've changed my sports patterns to daytime. Wild animals are everywhere now. I take calculated risks.
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I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I just say, "sit" when I encounter poodles.
I have biked in mountain lion territory without a gun. I signed waivers in Laguna Beach. I went in a group. We also have coyotes wandering around our city. They have been spotted between dusk and dawn. No attacks to humans yet. And I don't plan on being the first victim. I've changed my sports patterns to daytime. Wild animals are everywhere now. I take calculated risks.
That's your choice. And nobody is criticizing you for it, just as nobody should be criticizing OP for his choice to carry a weapon for protection.
As far as coyotes, they pose minimal risk to humans. They're vary wary of us and even in a pack will rarely resort to attacking a human. There's a far greater risk from domesticated neighborhood dogs (which are far more territorial and nowhere near as afraid of humans) than there is from coyotes. I live in a rural desert area and encounter coyotes often - their biggest desire is to get as far away from humans as fast as they can.8 -
I refused to purchase/carry a firearm for the longest time much like I refused to upgrade from cassette to CD (to MP3), tube TV to flat screen, conventional oven to microwave, etc..etc. I thought firearms are for cowards and the lazy..anyone can pull a trigger with little or no effort but it takes skill, bravery, and strength to use a melee weapon and that's what I was all about. But times change and so must we change with the times..we're not safe anywhere anymore at anytime so we must "arm" and educate ourselves with the latest technology available if we want to survive.
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DresdenSinn wrote: »I refused to purchase/carry a firearm for the longest time much like I refused to upgrade from cassette to CD (to MP3), tube TV to flat screen, conventional oven to microwave, etc..etc. I thought firearms are for cowards and the lazy..anyone can pull a trigger with little or no effort but it takes skill, bravery, and strength to use a melee weapon and that's what I was all about. But times change and so must we change with the times..we're not safe anywhere anymore at anytime so we must "arm" and educate ourselves with the latest technology available if we want to survive.
And because a pistol is a lot easier to conceal and more convenient to carry around than a mace or broadsword.4 -
Won't the supertuck be a problem without an actual belt?
I have one in the mail actually. It's for my SP101 though. That thing weighs more than my bike.
Yes you'd want a belt for sure with that setup. As another poster suggested the crossbreed belly band may be another alternative. I just figure the less I have to buy the more versatile one carry system is. I like to buy one system and utilize it as my goto. The reasons are I train with that setup, and then I am intimately familiar with the setup and have a good muscle memory built in god forbid I ever needed it. Not sure how a belt/belly system would feel on a ride, I guess it depends on how long a ride and your body type.
I think the key is having accessibility to the weapon system over comforts in some cases. I wouldn't want to put it in a back pack as that would be hard to get to the weapon system in a pinch. A conventional old school idea could be to incorporate your water bottle carry system to hold the weapon. Hell even just a basic fanny pack holds great sub framed weapons, and chicks dig fanny packs! Added bonus!2 -
OP, I'm not a frequent cyclist but when I run I wear my Kahr CW380 in a Crossbreed minituck. I just wear it on a loose belt (as in not attached to belt loops) under the waistband of my running pants.
The 5.11 tactical shirt could work but I imagine you may have problems with access if you're wearing it under a pullover shirt. Seems it would work better under a button up.
And for the question about why carry a firearm while running or cycling, it's not because I expect to need it (or want to) but rather because I prefer to exercise my right to be prepared for the worst case scenario while praying that it doesn't happen.
ETA: We don't go through fire drills because we expect the building to burn down. We do it to prepare for what we pray never happens even while knowing that it likely never will.
I don't expect to ever get beaten to death or shanked for walking up on a drug deal but I want to be prepared for such a situation just in case I'm the one you read about in the paper.8 -
So glad I don't have to deal with any of this - I just try not to get run over!0
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NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »The way I view this topic, is the same way I look at cars and horsepower. I rather have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.
Sure but we're talking about a bike, not a car, so the opposite applies. To make a car go faster, you touch the gas pedal a little bit more. To make a bike go faster, you suffer more. Cyclists' enemies are hills, and what makes it harder to go up a hill? Unnecessary weight.
That's why people spend $400 on carbon fiber handlebars and $3,100 on light-weight climbing wheels. To remove unneeded weight. Because it's a bicycle.
You are a serious rider. It's possible the few extra pounds and improved safety is well worth it. So just because you would spend 4k on a bike, doesn't mean that would apply to all of us.
$4k? That's kind of insulting.
But the point isn't the number, it's the difference between a car and a bike when it comes to unneeded dead weight.
Safety on a bike comes from wearing a helmet and having head lights; carrying a heavy thing increases your risk of breaking bones in a crash. I can tell you (as a "serious rider") a gun does nothing to improve safety on a bicycle. He can do as he sees fit, I'm just correcting this misconception about safety.
If you want to get a real safety device for the bike, check out Garmin's Varia rear-view radar. Because the #1 danger to most cyclists comes from drivers of cars. And you can't shoot them for crossing the lane markings.
Thanks for posting this - after being hit 3x (two sideswipes and 1 Tbone) while biking - all in Florida I had resigned never to bike in Florida. This is an awesome tool!1 -
Thanks for posting this - after being hit 3x (two sideswipes and 1 Tbone) while biking - all in Florida I had resigned never to bike in Florida. This is an awesome tool!
This is one of the reasons that I've NEVER ridden a bicycle on the street. Only closed tracks, streets or parks -- like Golden Gate Park in SF on weekends.
Even motorcycles are at risk but I don't ride them anymore.
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DresdenSinn wrote: »I refused to purchase/carry a firearm for the longest time much like I refused to upgrade from cassette to CD (to MP3), tube TV to flat screen, conventional oven to microwave, etc..etc. I thought firearms are for cowards and the lazy..anyone can pull a trigger with little or no effort but it takes skill, bravery, and strength to use a melee weapon and that's what I was all about. But times change and so must we change with the times..we're not safe anywhere anymore at anytime so we must "arm" and educate ourselves with the latest technology available if we want to survive.
Sorry but you don't need to "arm" yourself to survive (I am talking about weapons) or embrace the latest technology either. I agree that education is key but weapons are not, unless you are in uniform. But to each his/her own.
I never, ever purchased or carried a firearm and I am surviving just fine.1 -
Thanks for posting this - after being hit 3x (two sideswipes and 1 Tbone) while biking - all in Florida I had resigned never to bike in Florida. This is an awesome tool!
This is one of the reasons that I've NEVER ridden a bicycle on the street. Only closed tracks, streets or parks -- like Golden Gate Park in SF on weekends.
Even motorcycles are at risk but I don't ride them anymore.
I was drawn to this thread as this perfectly described my commute to a North Chicago site. When I first relocated to Chicago I didn't live in the best neighborhood and saved as much money as possible by biking to work. At this same point the city tore out a railway and replaced it with a bike trail, so I was able to stay off the busy roads and avoid some of the worst areas.
I haven't been on a motorcycle since I had kids. Just too many distracted drivers on the street today.
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DresdenSinn wrote: »I refused to purchase/carry a firearm for the longest time much like I refused to upgrade from cassette to CD (to MP3), tube TV to flat screen, conventional oven to microwave, etc..etc. I thought firearms are for cowards and the lazy..anyone can pull a trigger with little or no effort but it takes skill, bravery, and strength to use a melee weapon and that's what I was all about. But times change and so must we change with the times..we're not safe anywhere anymore at anytime so we must "arm" and educate ourselves with the latest technology available if we want to survive.
Sorry but you don't need to "arm" yourself to survive (I am talking about weapons) or embrace the latest technology either. I agree that education is key but weapons are not, unless you are in uniform. But to each his/her own.
I never, ever purchased or carried a firearm and I am surviving just fine.
What's your stance on condoms?1 -
What? Am I missing something, please clarify because I fail to understand what firearms and condoms have to do with my answer.0
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What? Am I missing something, please clarify because I fail to understand what firearms and condoms have to do with my answer.
Have you ever carried a condum just in case the need arose? You may not have planned on needing one but to be without one could have been life alteringly bad in the heat of the moment.
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DresdenSinn wrote: »
Love the truth to this statement.
I spent a good portion of the last 24 years training civilian, law enforcement and military community on use of lethal force. A point I bring up is reaction time and how quickly escalations occur.
The average violent crime is over in < 1 minute. Gun crimes < 20 seconds.
The average police response in the US is 10 minutes.
If anyone believes they will be able to dial 911, convey their location and situation to a dispatcher, then wait for first response to arrive in < 1 minute, they are in denial.
Education is paramount - as for toolsets, I leave that up to the individual. Diversity in training is key - fitness, martial science, medicine, situational awareness, de-escalation tactics...all critical skills.5 -
FWIW, there are at least 2 non-lethal options available to civilians: pepper spray and tasers.
Between the 2, tasers are better IMO because they are generally more effective, you can target the entire body (no need to go for just the eyes) and if you miss you can remove the cartridge and use it as a stun gun (if you have to go hands on).
Main problem w/tasers is that the electrode barbs won't penetrate heavy/multi-layered clothing, in which case, pepper spray would be better.
So, when I feel the need to carry concealed, which isn't often, I also always carry my compact C2 Taser as a 1st option and in cold weather I might carry pepper spray as well.
Better to be able to prove that you went for the non-lethal option 1st, if you actually have to draw and use your gun. I also carry a pair of cuffs in case I actually need to restrain someone that subdue w/my taser or gun.
PS: In case you're wondering, I am a retired LEO.2 -
I carried a rifle and/or a pistol all the time overseas, but I haven't felt a rational need to go around armed here in the U.S.. It isn't a war zone. I wouldn't want to go anywhere I felt that I needed to be armed. I understand not everyone thinks that way.2
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lsutton484 wrote: »What? Am I missing something, please clarify because I fail to understand what firearms and condoms have to do with my answer.
Have you ever carried a condum just in case the need arose? You may not have planned on needing one but to be without one could have been life alteringly bad in the heat of the moment.
To equate the need to carry a "condum" with the need to carry a firearm is preposterous. And by the way, since I married young I never had the need to carry that kind of protection.
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This is fascinating, sincerely mean that. I cycle, but don't need a gun. Consider myself lucky. But, the element of concealment would surely depend on the type of cycling and the clothes worn. Also, you wanting to scare off bears, or MF's who want to take your stuff? A truly fascinating thread.2
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DresdenSinn wrote: »
I can think of a number of instances of "grave danger" where carrying a personal weapon system would have no value whatsoever. In fact the subset where carrying is of credible value is pretty limited.
I appreciate the security blanket aspect though.3 -
I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I was going to stay out of this, but as a city dweller with a poodle mix I have to respond to this.
I live in a city, but I spend several weeks each year in a remote area pretty far from people. We hear wolves howling most nights and see bears and moose pretty frequently. I've also spent a fair amount of time in remote areas of Central America, the Amazon and Africa, where I've been fortunate to see and sometimes interact with a LOT of wildlife, so I am probably more comfortable than the average city dweller with potentially dangerous animals.
FWIW, I was also trained in gun safety as a kid, and several members of my family who live on farms own guns that they use to --- reluctantly -- control nuisance animals (e.g. feral dogs that kill sheep, groundhogs that chew floor joists), so I'm not super anti-gun.
Based on my experience of encountering a mountain lion in the remote rain forest, I know that if he had meant me harm, a gun would have done me no good whatsoever. I wasn't consciously frightened when he dropped out of a tree near me, but I was so excited to see him (locals told me that they never see them) that the best picture I got was of his tail and one rear paw --- my hands were shaking and fumbly in my rush to get my camera out, focus it and take pictures. Admittedly, a gun might have made me feel better after he climbed a back into his tree and disappeared (when I did start to get pretty freaked out about the miles I still had to walk and the howler monkeys going nuts making a huge racket), but in all honesty a gun would have done me no good whatsoever as protection.
I think OP should do what he wants, but I have to say that absent significant military experience or hours of daily practice I am really skeptical of a gun's value as protection against an ambush predator like a mountain lion unless you're actively hunting (i.e. walking with the gun in your hand ready to shoot), and even then I have my doubts.
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FWIW, there are at least 2 non-lethal options available to civilians: pepper spray and tasers.
Between the 2, tasers are better IMO because they are generally more effective, you can target the entire body (no need to go for just the eyes) and if you miss you can remove the cartridge and use it as a stun gun (if you have to go hands on).
Main problem w/tasers is that the electrode barbs won't penetrate heavy/multi-layered clothing, in which case, pepper spray would be better.
So, when I feel the need to carry concealed, which isn't often, I also always carry my compact C2 Taser as a 1st option and in cold weather I might carry pepper spray as well.
Better to be able to prove that you went for the non-lethal option 1st, if you actually have to draw and use your gun. I also carry a pair of cuffs in case I actually need to restrain someone that subdue w/my taser or gun.
PS: In case you're wondering, I am a retired LEO.
I carry pepper spray as well, but not a fan of tasers yet. I've seen too many failures with the current designs. I see this as a major issue in colder climates where people are wearing heavier layers of clothes.
Any legal issues with restraining as a civilian? IL and WI law forbids this, but this would vary by state & municipality.
Thank you for your service brother.1 -
I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I was going to stay out of this, but as a city dweller with a poodle mix I have to respond to this.
I live in a city, but I spend several weeks each year in a remote area pretty far from people. We hear wolves howling most nights and see bears and moose pretty frequently. I've also spent a fair amount of time in remote areas of Central America, the Amazon and Africa, where I've been fortunate to see and sometimes interact with a LOT of wildlife, so I am probably more comfortable than the average city dweller with potentially dangerous animals.
FWIW, I was also trained in gun safety as a kid, and several members of my family who live on farms own guns that they use to --- reluctantly -- control nuisance animals (e.g. feral dogs that kill sheep, groundhogs that chew floor joists), so I'm not super anti-gun.
Based on my experience of encountering a mountain lion in the remote rain forest, I know that if he had meant me harm, a gun would have done me no good whatsoever. I wasn't consciously frightened when he dropped out of a tree near me, but I was so excited to see him (locals told me that they never see them) that the best picture I got was of his tail and one rear paw --- my hands were shaking and fumbly in my rush to get my camera out, focus it and take pictures. Admittedly, a gun might have made me feel better after he climbed a back into his tree and disappeared (when I did start to get pretty freaked out about the miles I still had to walk and the howler monkeys going nuts making a huge racket), but in all honesty a gun would have done me no good whatsoever as protection.
I think OP should do what he wants, but I have to say that absent significant military experience or hours of daily practice I am really skeptical of a gun's value as protection against an ambush predator like a mountain lion unless you're actively hunting (i.e. walking with the gun in your hand ready to shoot), and even then I have my doubts.
The biggest threat in the rainforest would be walking under a howler monkey I think the bolded part of your statement is what other experienced posters are signifying as well. A point the OP may choose to consider. 0 -
Any legal issues with restraining as a civilian? IL and WI law forbids this, but this would vary by state & municipality.
There are all kinds of legal issues in trying to effect a citizen's arrest which (as you note) varies by jurisdiction and no one should try to do it w/o being very clear about the applicable laws and how the circumstances justify doing it, if that's what you decide to do.
However, I'd argue that the potential civil and/or criminal penalties for false arrest are the least of your worries if you have already pepper sprayed, tased or shot someone.
Better to have a pair of cuffs or other restraints handy to control the person with until the police arrive when you'll find out real quick whether they think if it was a good stop/shooting/arrest or not. Just be prepared to be taken into custody with the other person until they (and the DA) sort it out.
Which brings up another point. NEVER, EVER carry your favorite (or any expensive or special) gun. Reason? If you use it to shoot someone, it becomes evidence and it will be confiscated.
If you have no culpability, you will only get it back after the case is decided, which could take years. If you are culpable and are convicted of a felony, you'll go to jail, you'll never get that gun back and will lose every other gun you own as well.
Makes you really think about the responsibilities and liabilities associated with carrying and possibly using a gun.
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