Live together before getting married?
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AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »Nope. I'm totally old-school. Any potential benefit from living together beforehand can be just as easily achieved with proper communication and respect before the marriage. JMO.
Can you elaborate on this idea?
I think a lot of what matters between people is the sum total of small interactions. The stuff that's difficult to put into words. The positivity or negativity people show each other through body language, facial expression, etc.
Very often, people behave differently when they're alone than they do when they're not, for many reasons. I knew two people who were tidy and cleanly, but when they live together each of them thought the other wasn't doing their fair share, and then they both refused to do house work. They lived in a pig stie briefly and then split up.
A lot of the time, in hindsight it feels like something should have been obvious, but, before it happens, no one thinks to ask.2 -
IMO it doesn't matter. What matters is how long/how well you know someone before you move in with them... whether you're married or not.
This is a good point...I was dating my wife for a good 5 years before we moved in together. We were also engaged when we moved in together.
For the most part, it just seemed like good economic sense at that point. It just didn't make a ton of sense for both of us to be throwing money at separate apartments...we used the money we saved to help with a down payment on a house.3 -
Yeah, I think it's good to know who you plan on spending the rest of your life with. I don't think it'll prevent divorce, but it should prevent marriages between incompatible people.2
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My first marriage we didn't live together it lasted 3 years
Second marriage lived together it's still going.
It's up to the person but living together first worked for me1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »Nope. I'm totally old-school. Any potential benefit from living together beforehand can be just as easily achieved with proper communication and respect before the marriage. JMO.
Can you elaborate on this idea?
I think a lot of what matters between people is the sum total of small interactions. The stuff that's difficult to put into words. The positivity or negativity people show each other through body language, facial expression, etc.
Very often, people behave differently when they're alone than they do when they're not, for many reasons. I knew two people who were tidy and cleanly, but when they live together each of them thought the other wasn't doing their fair share, and then they both refused to do house work. They lived in a pig stie briefly and then split up.
A lot of the time, in hindsight it feels like something should have been obvious, but, before it happens, no one thinks to ask.
Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »Nope. I'm totally old-school. Any potential benefit from living together beforehand can be just as easily achieved with proper communication and respect before the marriage. JMO.
Can you elaborate on this idea?
I think a lot of what matters between people is the sum total of small interactions. The stuff that's difficult to put into words. The positivity or negativity people show each other through body language, facial expression, etc.
Very often, people behave differently when they're alone than they do when they're not, for many reasons. I knew two people who were tidy and cleanly, but when they live together each of them thought the other wasn't doing their fair share, and then they both refused to do house work. They lived in a pig stie briefly and then split up.
A lot of the time, in hindsight it feels like something should have been obvious, but, before it happens, no one thinks to ask.
This is exactly what I mean by "communication", you pretty much just elaborated for me, lol. There is a list of questions, something like "106 Questions to Ask Before Marriage" or something. I'm sure it's Googleable. I'll see if I can find it.
My FiL sent it to me and my then-fiance, in hopes one or more of the questions would trip us up and we'd break up, because he hated me.
But all it did was cement that my fiance and I agreed on everything and were perfect for each other. Suck it! Hahaha! 6 years married. Literally never fight. 
ETA: by "fight" I mean large disagreements on any sort of substantial topic. We snipe at each other and might slam a door here and there, but that's always due to one or both of us being tired or stressed by something non-related. Or just hungry. "Hangry".1 -
thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
EDIT: I think those two were clearly not made for each other, and I think it's best for both of them that they didn't marry. They're both good people but not right for each other. I think the only thing that would have been different had they been married is they would have had to go through a divorce. But we'll never know for sure.2 -
I was gung-ho about moving in together with my then fiance@19. He was extremely controlling where I'd needed to beep him if I was leaving to go somewhere, even with my sister. Didn't want me to work, as he was and will be the provider. I was complacent until he'd stated that after we were wed, I will be moving into the family home in Upstate NY and he will be living in Manhattan and will drive up on Friday's. That just didn't auger well with me, along with other issues >>> I quit the relationship.
Today >>> Sure, why not? Granted, I know that at my age, a man I might be on the marriage track with could be a widow or divorcee with children and parent (s). I would need to rent a studio for work though, as I work from home. If we choose to cohabitate, there will be a space issue for my things and I'm just not going to have that many people adjust their normal to make room for me and my proclivities.
ETA: Am going to be curious though@division of financial responsibilities given usage + real estate privileges1 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »This is exactly what I mean by "communication", you pretty much just elaborated for me, lol. There is a list of questions, something like "106 Questions to Ask Before Marriage" or something. I'm sure it's Googleable. I'll see if I can find it.
I think you're missing my point. There are more than 106 reasons people have got divorced. Folks have deal breakers they don't realize yet.
You're making it sound like people can just sit down and imagine every contingency and then ask each other if this one is ok, yes or not, and then they'll know whether they're compatible or not because they done communicated.
Every relationship I've ever been in has been much more fluid and ongoing than that. We've crossed bridges when we came to them because even the best map has some omissions.7 -
NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.2 -
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NorthCascades wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »This is exactly what I mean by "communication", you pretty much just elaborated for me, lol. There is a list of questions, something like "106 Questions to Ask Before Marriage" or something. I'm sure it's Googleable. I'll see if I can find it.
I think you're missing my point. There are more than 106 reasons people have got divorced. Folks have deal breakers they don't realize yet.
You're making it sound like people can just sit down and imagine every contingency and then ask each other if this one is ok, yes or not, and then they'll know whether they're compatible or not because they done communicated.
Every relationship I've ever been in has been much more fluid and ongoing than that. We've crossed bridges when we came to them because even the best map has some omissions.
Not every contingency, no. But I think you're over-complicating things. Marriages or relationships break down for a surprisingly small number of reasons, There are always exceptions to the rule, but I think if those big trip-ups (kids, disciplining them, money, work, religion, sex) can get addressed, agreed on, and/or resolved before marriage, there are not a lot of relationships that won't make it through rough patches. Call me optimistic, but it's what I believe.4 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Some correlation is to be expected - both relate to the reduction in the relevance of institutionalised religion, particularly Catholicism in the Western world. Catholicism said not to live together before marriage, and not to get divorced. As less people adhered to the teachings, people started living together, and more couples started divorcing rather than hacking it out in an unhappy marriage.
I think the correlation is that they're both results of the decline, rather than one being causative of the other.8 -
It depends on the couple, but in general in Western society today - Yes, living together is a good idea. You see all the behind the curtain activity and force people letting their guard down. Unrealistic expectations set by movies, parents, etc. do great harm as does the lack of open and honest communication.2
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Alatariel75 wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Some correlation is to be expected - both relate to the reduction in the relevance of institutionalised religion, particularly Catholicism in the Western world. Catholicism said not to live together before marriage, and not to get divorced. As less people adhered to the teachings, people started living together, and more couples started divorcing rather than hacking it out in an unhappy marriage.
I think the correlation is that they're both results of the decline, rather than one being causative of the other.
Great points!0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Actually, it has a lot more to do with divorce laws changing in the 60s and 70s...up to that point, not only was divorce "taboo", but it was more difficult...no fault laws introduced in the 60s streamlined the divorce process and made it much easier...by the mid 70s most states had adopted no fault laws. Instances of divorce went from about 14% in the 50s to over 40% by the 70s.
This also coincides with and expanding economy and the rise of feminism and large numbers of women entering the workforce in the 60s.
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NorthCascades wrote: »
*Epic sigh*
Ok. OP asked for our opinions, and I offered mine. You immediately challenged them (which is totally fine), and I responded in kind. I don't feel the need to sink to being cute with sarcasm, so I'm not sure why you did feel that need. You have a nice day, though. (Not sarcastic.) I've said my piece and an argument is unnecessary, because I'm sure neither of us are going to change the other's mind. Cool it friend, we're just having a discussion, here.2 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Fellas, don't sign up for this.
Then joint bank account.
Then monthly allowance.
Then before you realize 1/3rd of your monthly income goes to a mortgage.
And it's always "our" monthly income. Any slip of the tongue on our versus my results in funny conversations where you always apologize at the end looking into a cute face.
Take it from the learned one
A marriage needs is sense of humor. If its missing this, well, I will just leave it right there.1 -
If not living together, at least go on a trip alone together. Even if you're just staying in a hotel for a week or two in your town together, you need some time being isolated together. In my experience, if you can survive vacation without a fight, you can survive anything.1
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Fellas, don't sign up for this.
Then joint bank account.
Then monthly allowance.
Then before you realize 1/3rd of your monthly income goes to a mortgage.
And it's always "our" monthly income. Any slip of the tongue on our versus my results in funny conversations where you always apologize at the end looking into a cute face.
Take it from the learned one
This sounds more like forced slavery, than a relationship3
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