Protein, Protein, Protein -enough Protein
Replies
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WinoGelato wrote: »So it seems protein is the next scapegoat du jour... first it was low fat, then low carb, now it seems we have a lot of proponents for a low protein diet. Can't wait to hear all the amazing things that can result from a LP lifestyle... /sarcasmfont
I don't see any proponents for a low protein diet.
Eating 1 or 1.5 or 2 times the government-study-determined adequate amount of protein isn't low protein.
Some people like to eat far more than that, and that's fine. However, it's also fine to eat the government recommended amount. It's not fine to eat less than that and I don't see anyone recommending that.
Well, the tone of the original post was pretty anti-protein. Recent posts nitpicking exactly what the minimum is seems to also be consistent with wanting to be on the lower end, which I would say is a proponent for a low protein diet. It may not be below RDA guidelines, but I'd still say advocating for eating the bare minimum of anything is erring on the "low" side.
It kind of reminds me of...
Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
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As a bodybuilder i cant stress enough the importance of protein, and thats not just as an athlete or bodybuilder but for anyone looking to lose weight.
Number 1 protein is the number one most satiating macro there is, proper protein equals proper appetite, also if you are deficient in your protein intake chances are you will lose muscle, less muscle equals less calories burned, less calories burned equals less fat loss ...
Number 2, the amount of amino acids, branch chain amino acids, micro nutrients, and vitamins from healthy proteins is absolutely vital to a healthy diet.
With that said yes its ok to eat less protein from time to time, its ok to be vegetarian or vegan i could never knock anyone for their choices but to say its humorous at how much people praise protein is kinda funny to me ... protein is very essential in any healthy diet, as well as carbs and healthy fats
Also any macro in excess can be unhealthy just like anything in this world, if we're talking about meat specifically than i can only say processed meats are terrible, good quality lean meats are amazing for your health when eaten within a proper diet and nutrition plan.2 -
As a bodybuilder i cant stress enough the importance of protein, and thats not just as an athlete or bodybuilder but for anyone looking to lose weight.
Number 1 protein is the number one most satiating macro there is, proper protein equals proper appetite, also if you are deficient in your protein intake chances are you will lose muscle, less muscle equals less calories burned, less calories burned equals less fat loss ...
Number 2, the amount of amino acids, branch chain amino acids, micro nutrients, and vitamins from healthy proteins is absolutely vital to a healthy diet.
With that said yes its ok to eat less protein from time to time, its ok to be vegetarian or vegan i could never knock anyone for their choices but to say its humorous at how much people praise protein is kinda funny to me ... protein is very essential in any healthy diet, as well as carbs and healthy fats
Also any macro in excess can be unhealthy just like anything in this world, if we're talking about meat specifically than i can only say processed meats are terrible, good quality lean meats are amazing for your health when eaten within a proper diet and nutrition plan.
Just want to point out that being vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean that one is necessarily eating less protein. Plenty of vegetarians and vegans meet or exceed protein requirements. While it's true there are people in the community who will say that the protein guidelines are overstated (which I don't agree with), it isn't like you have to choose between vegetarianism/veganism and meeting protein guidelines -- you can do both.7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
Those on low calorie diets should have a larger portion of their calories dedicated to protein, not only for muscle retention but also satiety.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »As a bodybuilder i cant stress enough the importance of protein, and thats not just as an athlete or bodybuilder but for anyone looking to lose weight.
Number 1 protein is the number one most satiating macro there is, proper protein equals proper appetite, also if you are deficient in your protein intake chances are you will lose muscle, less muscle equals less calories burned, less calories burned equals less fat loss ...
Number 2, the amount of amino acids, branch chain amino acids, micro nutrients, and vitamins from healthy proteins is absolutely vital to a healthy diet.
With that said yes its ok to eat less protein from time to time, its ok to be vegetarian or vegan i could never knock anyone for their choices but to say its humorous at how much people praise protein is kinda funny to me ... protein is very essential in any healthy diet, as well as carbs and healthy fats
Also any macro in excess can be unhealthy just like anything in this world, if we're talking about meat specifically than i can only say processed meats are terrible, good quality lean meats are amazing for your health when eaten within a proper diet and nutrition plan.
Just want to point out that being vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean that one is necessarily eating less protein. Plenty of vegetarians and vegans meet or exceed protein requirements. While it's true there are people in the community who will say that the protein guidelines are overstated (which I don't agree with), it isn't like you have to choose between vegetarianism/veganism and meeting protein guidelines -- you can do both.
I agree with that, i have no issues with vegans/vegetarians, and there are plenty of ways for them to get protein. I was kind of unsure if the original post was pointed towards that lifestyle or what the whole direction of the post was0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
Those on low calorie diets should have a larger portion of their calories dedicated to protein, not only for muscle retention but also satiety.
That's why it's set to 20%.0 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
I am having to go moderate carb because of health reasons. Yesterday was my first day. When I logged my calories last night I was sitting at only slightly above 1000. I still managed to get in 100g of protein and more than the recommended servings of vegetables. I know 1000 is not VLC but for the average person it is. I will admit my fat grams were low but they always are even when I am eating at 1600.0 -
CactusCat58 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?
Yep, and i don't bother chasing the number once it gets stupid high! I'm usually between 120-180g of protein a day.1 -
CactusCat58 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?
I have no idea, I don't input exercise into MFP so I don't know what it does to the food tracking area?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »As a bodybuilder i cant stress enough the importance of protein, and thats not just as an athlete or bodybuilder but for anyone looking to lose weight.
Number 1 protein is the number one most satiating macro there is, proper protein equals proper appetite, also if you are deficient in your protein intake chances are you will lose muscle, less muscle equals less calories burned, less calories burned equals less fat loss ...
Number 2, the amount of amino acids, branch chain amino acids, micro nutrients, and vitamins from healthy proteins is absolutely vital to a healthy diet.
With that said yes its ok to eat less protein from time to time, its ok to be vegetarian or vegan i could never knock anyone for their choices but to say its humorous at how much people praise protein is kinda funny to me ... protein is very essential in any healthy diet, as well as carbs and healthy fats
Also any macro in excess can be unhealthy just like anything in this world, if we're talking about meat specifically than i can only say processed meats are terrible, good quality lean meats are amazing for your health when eaten within a proper diet and nutrition plan.
Just want to point out that being vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean that one is necessarily eating less protein. Plenty of vegetarians and vegans meet or exceed protein requirements. While it's true there are people in the community who will say that the protein guidelines are overstated (which I don't agree with), it isn't like you have to choose between vegetarianism/veganism and meeting protein guidelines -- you can do both.
^This. I'm veggie.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
Those on low calorie diets should have a larger portion of their calories dedicated to protein, not only for muscle retention but also satiety.
That's why it's set to 20%.
Its set to 20% based on USDA recommendations IIRC.
And when you add exercise, it would add macros at the standard percentage breakout for those wondering.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »CactusCat58 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?
Yep, and i don't bother chasing the number once it gets stupid high! I'm usually between 120-180g of protein a day.
Damn, I'd be stuffing down the yogurt and protein bars 3x a day to hit that.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »CactusCat58 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?
Yep, and i don't bother chasing the number once it gets stupid high! I'm usually between 120-180g of protein a day.
Damn, I'd be stuffing down the yogurt and protein bars 3x a day to hit that.
lol it's not a conscience effort, I just tend to gravitate toward higher protein foods.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
I don't think it's crazy low, but it's lower than I think is ideal for someone (other than a quite small person, based on LBM) trying to maintain muscle when losing weight, and that's especially true at low calories like 1200 or if someone is in a group prone to losing muscle anyway, like a middle-aged woman (like me and many others at MFP).
There are lots of studies that suggest that even obese people are more apt to lose more muscle and less fat at a standard RDA protein diet vs. one that is somewhat higher. (Percentages aren't a great way to do it, IMO.)
For example, a study I posted recently in the Debate forum for other reasons compared obese women (30+ BMI) losing 10% of their weight on a .8 g/kg protein diet (RDA) vs. a 1.2 g/kg protein diet.
To look at the numbers, let's say a woman is 200 lbs. At .8 g/kg, that's 72 g, whereas at 1.2 g/kg that's 108 g. Yet the lower protein group lost twice as much muscle: http://caloriesproper.com/discordant-insulin-sensitivity-on-a-high-protein-diet/. There were other effects that caused discussion about the benefit of the protein to someone with insulin issues (which is what I posted about), but this effect on muscle loss vs. fat loss is what I've seen in a number of studies and it's why I don't think the RDA is really the crucial number for people at a deficit and that's especially so (again) as the deficit gets higher and as one is closer to goal.
I don't think the number I suggest is crazy high (for me it is about 78g -102 g or .65-.85 g/lb of healthy goal weight), but yeah I'd personally recommend for someone at 1200 of my size (not large, more for someone larger, less for someone smaller, again wrt LBM or height/build) to try and hit at least that range if doing a low calorie diet and cut more on other things. I don't think its tough to hit those numbers without sacrificing nutrient dense foods such as vegetables, for example, either, although I do know it can be harder when someone is doing a plant-based diet to get there.)0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »CactusCat58 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Ok, so now I'm playing around with protein amounts and wonder why MFP's is so much higher than the recommended amount? Am I doing the math wrong?
130lbs converted to kg is 59 (rounded up) x .8 (which I'm seeing recommended on numerous places online)= 47g of protein.
But, MFP has me set at 94g? This auto adjusted after I manually entered in the calorie intake the USDA recommends that I follow for maintaining my current stats-1,864. At that calorie intake the USDA calculator gave me a recommendation of 47g of protein (factoring in my age/height etc). Why is there such a large discrepancy in protein amounts between the two?
Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your post but I think I see what you're getting at?
Don't the recommendations on MFP adjust depending upon exercise?
Yep, and i don't bother chasing the number once it gets stupid high! I'm usually between 120-180g of protein a day.
Yeah, even when I ate back exercise I'd ignore the effect on the macros and just try to hit my normal protein.2 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »
The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.
What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.
Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.
ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.
I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.
So quit looking at low carbers and keto
That seems to be what's poppin on mfp now thought lol like most threads0 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »
The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.
What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.
Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.
ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.
I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.
So quit looking at low carbers and keto
She shouldn't be seeing a lot of protein in diaries if she's looking at keto people. Keto is a low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet. They're usually at around 15-20'ish % protein. Regardless, I guess it's not surprising to see a vegan refer to people eating higher protein as "wack jobs", since her perspective is slightly (?) biased in that regard.3 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »
The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.
What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.
Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.
ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.
I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.
So quit looking at low carbers and keto
I can bet you will find the moderation crew eat much more protein than most lchf and keto followers. Where the deviation tends to occur is those body builders following the current broscience or people who dont know how to implement the protocol correctly.1 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »
The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.
What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.
Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.
ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.
I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.
I personally don't track my vegetable intake as I generally eat lower calorie veg (kale, spinach, brocolli). For me it is more important to track my protein and fat intake as I have goal intakes for those with carbs making up the remainder. Plus my maintenance is relatively high (3000-3500 cals) so I have a larger margin for error than lighter/less lean individuals.2 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »
The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.
What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.
Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.
ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.
I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.
So quit looking at low carbers and keto
I can bet you will find the moderation crew eat much more protein than most lchf and keto followers. Where the deviation tends to occur is those body builders following the current broscience or people who dont know how to implement the protocol correctly.
The low carb crowd here mostly seems to eat more in the line of the usual recs here (.8 g/lb of goal) even though I know some hard core keto people worry about too much protein (from what I've seen elsewhere). Cutting back on junk food, whether one does it to save calories and have a more satiating diet, because one is keto, because one is "clean" or "paleo" or blah, blah tends in all cases to mean more protein, since the average junk food (slang term with a broadly accepted meaning, IMO) tends to be high in fat and carbs, low in protein. Thus, I suspect eating more protein as a percentage (not in total amount) is common on MFP vs. the average American.
I also think eating more vegetables, whole grains, etc. tends to be more common on MFP, with the exception of certain hard-core keto diaries I've looked at, but I also think that this varies based on who you look at. I think my MFP friend group or who I happened to peek at tend more that way, so probably that effects how I think of it. (I eat at least 100 g of protein most days and lots and lots of veg and other plant-based foods, because those are really the two things I build meals around. But then I don't log anymore and closed my diary anyway since I started feeling weird about the half-logged days I occasionally do. Lots of the others who focus on lots of veegtables as well as protein also are at goal and don't log anymore, even if they used to, so, not helpful, I guess, but I know I've looked at plenty that are not meal based at all and have regular vegetables as part of meals. Don't see veg and protein as opposed at all, seems weird that they would be.)0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?
People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.
MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.
Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.
People who are on very low calorie diets for extreme weight loss, for instance post bariatric surgery, should be eating a much higher protein ratio than most. If you have watched "My 600 Pound Life" you may have heard the surgeon their say that the ONLY thing that a patient needs is protein post surgery. This is because they will be using their own fat as their primary fuel and they will convert protein to carbohydrates as required as long as they get enough protein. Micros will be covered by some intake of vegetables but mostly through supplements until the person can up their food intake.
And yes, 60g is low, unless a person is rather light (meaning they are getting .4g to .6g/lb), and will exacerbate sacropenia as a person ages. This isn't speculation, low protein intake, along with sedentary lifestyle, is a recipe for disaster as you age.
4 -
FWIW, since I've started training with a coworker, both my lifts and protein numbers have increased. I can't say that the protein was the sole reason for my lifts going up because the intensity of my lifting has gone up too, but I have been hitting anywhere from 170 to 200+ grams of protein on ~2600 calories.1
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Unless you're a very tiny person, yes, 60g is crazy low.
I'm late to the conversation but I want to add my personal cautionary tale. Twenty-two years ago, I did this diet thing called "T-lite". At the time had just had my first son, before I had him however, I did a lot of weight lifting (20-30hrs a week, heavy weight along with half hour of stair climber per day & additional time spent biking). So despite the weight I'd gained while pregnant (pre-ecclampsia made it so much worse) I still had a good deal of muscle mass. Since I was stuck at home with an infant & didn't have any weights, I was willing to try about anything.
This diet was a three days on, four days off sort of a thing. And it worked as advertised. Despite the fact that I felt like I was starving, I'd lose about 4-7lbs over the three days of the diet & maintain 3-5lbs lost over the week in total. However, after I'd lost about 30lbs or so, I started noticing that Doing things was harder. I stopped doing the diet but the damage was done. I'd lost a ton of muscle mass, I wasn't burning calories as quickly as I used to, and I was in general a mess. Recovering from that took me Years & in the meantime I'd gained back everything i'd lost & then some.
You don't have to want to bulk up to need protein. You need muscle for daily tasks. You need muscle to burn calories. Once you lose muscle, getting it back is harder & losing weight or maintaining a loss is harder.
On keto, protein is the only real goal. Carbs are something to limit, and fat is a lever. I'm struggling a bit right now to get all of my protein in. I need about 100-120g per day. I'd rather have slightly more than be deficient & go through what I did 20years ago again. I've been full at around 1200-1300cal per day, but it isn't a win if I end up weak & tired & unable to maintain my loss.4 -
Protein was the one thing i couldn't get right on keto, I could never get it under 100-110g. Many people struggle to up their protein, i struggled to get it down!0
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Evidence that protein requirements have been significantly underestimated
SUMMARY:
The indicator amino acid oxidation-based requirement values of 0.93 and 1.2 g protein/kg/day and the reanalysis of existing nitrogen balance studies are significantly higher than current recommendations. Therefore, there is an urgent need to reassess recommendations for protein intake in adult humans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/198415816 -
Increasing Protein, or Decreasing Carbohydrate…Which Gives You a Metabolic Advantage?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-6-body-fat-testing-and-the-metabolic-advantage/increasing-protein-or-decreasing-carbohydrate-which-gives-you-a-metabolic-advantage/
The Bottom Line
The bottom line is that there is no metabolic advantage to a low carbohydrate intake that is independent of a high protein intake. There is a metabolic advantage to a high protein diet, which will increase the calories you burn by 80-100 calories per day. There is also a dramatic satiety advantage to a high protein intake. A low carbohydrate intake (low enough to cause ketosis) can increase this satiety advantage, but individual responses will vary. The best dietary approach for you will depend upon a variety of factors.5 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »Evidence that protein requirements have been significantly underestimated
SUMMARY:
The indicator amino acid oxidation-based requirement values of 0.93 and 1.2 g protein/kg/day and the reanalysis of existing nitrogen balance studies are significantly higher than current recommendations. Therefore, there is an urgent need to reassess recommendations for protein intake in adult humans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19841581
Yay for science. The protein recommendation I've seen on several of the more informed keto sites is 1g/kg of weight but not more due apparently to the conversion of proteins to glucose. However, this researched article (although I haven't followed all the links yet, it at least provides all the references it used) seems to indicate that the rate of gluconeogenisis does not change even if there is an excess of protein. So I'm not sure that recommendation of "no more than that" is accurate for the reasons given. But at least the "recommended" values match the science so far.
Thanks for that article, added to my library.Wetcoaster wrote: »The best dietary approach for you will depend upon a variety of factors.
YES! Thank you for being someone else who states this. So tired of evangelists for ANY diet approach. If it works for you, it's probably the right approach. For you.
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