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Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
dija92
Posts: 8 Member
Hey 
First off, I know this is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope we can keep things civil!
I'm on the fence about the fat acceptance thing. And, at nearly 300lbs, I don't really want to spend too long on anything, especially a fence!!
Part of me thinks that fat acceptance is a tad bit dangerous in its attempts to normalise what is, essentially (although I am aware that I'm generalising here) , an unhealthy lifestyle. I'd also, although cautiously, argue that, while variation in weight is of course normal, openly stating that being 100lb+ over a 'normal' weight is anything other than a health concern is irresponsible. (Although I'm not saying that being ashamed is appropriate either.)
That said however, i guess it has many benefits... for instance I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person. Both have made choices that impact their health... but only one is outwardly visible and is used to bully and mock people who, let's face it, likely use food as a coping mechanism.... pretty crappy given that there coping mechanism only affects themselves (as opposed to someone that acts like an arsehole to relieve stress etc.). Plus, maybe you need to be in a position where you feel like you're worth something before you can allow yourself to hope for better (although I don't know if anyone fully into fat acceptance would agree with the use of the word "better"...)
What do you guys think??
First off, I know this is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope we can keep things civil!
I'm on the fence about the fat acceptance thing. And, at nearly 300lbs, I don't really want to spend too long on anything, especially a fence!!
Part of me thinks that fat acceptance is a tad bit dangerous in its attempts to normalise what is, essentially (although I am aware that I'm generalising here) , an unhealthy lifestyle. I'd also, although cautiously, argue that, while variation in weight is of course normal, openly stating that being 100lb+ over a 'normal' weight is anything other than a health concern is irresponsible. (Although I'm not saying that being ashamed is appropriate either.)
That said however, i guess it has many benefits... for instance I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person. Both have made choices that impact their health... but only one is outwardly visible and is used to bully and mock people who, let's face it, likely use food as a coping mechanism.... pretty crappy given that there coping mechanism only affects themselves (as opposed to someone that acts like an arsehole to relieve stress etc.). Plus, maybe you need to be in a position where you feel like you're worth something before you can allow yourself to hope for better (although I don't know if anyone fully into fat acceptance would agree with the use of the word "better"...)
What do you guys think??
19
Replies
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Lengthy discussion here already that you might be interested in OPhttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10376680/fat-acceptance-movement#latest 6
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Lengthy discussion here already that you might be interested in OPhttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10376680/fat-acceptance-movement#latest
Ahh, I didn't see that, thanks!!
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I think it is becoming far more acceptable to be "Fat" yes. And it can be dangerous just as it is dangerous to have models who are anorexic looking. We as a society have gone from one extreme to another. I recently saw a reality tv show called something like "my big fat life" and its all about being a fat person and how good it can be etc. We are glorifying being unhealthy and teaching others its ok. Def a problem in my opinion31
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Hey
First off, I know this is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope we can keep things civil!
I'm on the fence about the fat acceptance thing. And, at nearly 300lbs, I don't really want to spend too long on anything, especially a fence!!
Part of me thinks that fat acceptance is a tad bit dangerous in its attempts to normalise what is, essentially (although I am aware that I'm generalising here) , an unhealthy lifestyle. I'd also, although cautiously, argue that, while variation in weight is of course normal, openly stating that being 100lb+ over a 'normal' weight is anything other than a health concern is irresponsible. (Although I'm not saying that being ashamed is appropriate either.)
That said however, i guess it has many benefits... for instance I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person. Both have made choices that impact their health... but only one is outwardly visible and is used to bully and mock people who, let's face it, likely use food as a coping mechanism.... pretty crappy given that there coping mechanism only affects themselves (as opposed to someone that acts like an arsehole to relieve stress etc.). Plus, maybe you need to be in a position where you feel like you're worth something before you can allow yourself to hope for better (although I don't know if anyone fully into fat acceptance would agree with the use of the word "better"...)
What do you guys think??
Sounds like you have some things to work out yet in your psyche.5 -
I feel like accepting both extremes is dangerous. Fat and thin.
Being healthy should be a common goal we all work towards however I feel like everyone has a unique size and shape of ideal health.
And that we need to embrace those differences instead of making anyone feel badly for them.
Personally I've been bigger and generally healthy even though technically I was considered overweight.
As of right now it's dangerous for people overeating to justify it and glorify it AND for those undereating to glorify and justify those habitual lifestyles in the same.
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The short time I was involved with HAES, I thought I'd found a group of people that accepted me even though I was morbidly obese and relatively healthy. Then I started losing weight and they turned on me faster than a pack of hungry wolves on a rabbit.
The HAES people I knew were just as horrible at shaming as people who hate on fat people.40 -
I too feel conflicted about this group of people. Of course, I don't think it is right for us in polite society to go around shaming others for how they look, be it weight or anything else. However, I do think that some of these people live in fantasy land about their health. Sure you may be healthy at this weight today, but it catches up with you. I was in perfect health and obese when I was 22. Ten years later, I weigh the exact same except now I have hypothyroidism, type 2 diabetes, and recurring back pain that can be debilitating at times. My situation is my own and not every obese person is destined for the same and I get that. That being said, I am not sure if these activists are simply trying make themselves feel better (relatively harmless) or encourage obesity acceptance (irresponsible from a public health standpoint). Health is never something you should take for granted.22
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I'm against HAES because, science. I would support a HSAES movement. It stands for Hot and Sexy at Every Size, because I do believe you should feel confident in yourself no matter what your weight or what you look like. But nobody should be deluded into believing they are healthy at a heavier weight.30
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People are people. If you can't see beyond their superficial traits, such as weight, skin color, hair color, body shape, etc. and treat them with the inherent dignity and respect due all human beings for the sake of being a human being, you have a problem.
That includes yourself.
Weight does not define a person, it does not confer moral value.32 -
I accepted being fat until I didn't. Then I stopped trying to be fat.
The journalists of fatness who have found a market niche writing apologia for obesity are no different from any other woo peddler.16 -
Although there's already a lengthy thread about this topic, maybe it's time for a new one. It's difficult to wade through 27+ pages of comments so I'm more than happy to respond to @dija92 in a new thread with my thoughts. I do not believe the fat acceptance movement is anything more than a movement created to embrace an unhealthy lifestyle and insulate yourself with others who will protect you along the path to an early grave.
As a societal norm people seek to find acceptance among others like themselves. Everyone wants to hang with people who are similar to them. More than two-thirds of people in the US are overweight, and of those over one-third are obese, thus the fat acceptance movement has a captive following. I have been both overweight and normal weight in my life, fit and unfit. No matter what my size and fitness level I sought out people who were similar at that particular time. When I was working out vigorously, I hung out with like-minded fitness friends. I noticed at the height of my best fitness level some of my more overweight friends didn't have much time for me anymore. When I gained back some of the weight, suddenly they were friendlier. Perhaps they felt the same about me.
Of course, it is all personal choice but deep in our hearts we really know what we wish to be. No matter what they say, I do not believe anyone is truly happy being obese. They just want others who are like them to tell them it's OK. I have lost several friends, a co-worker and, just before Christmas, my cousin to the unhealthy ravages of obesity. My co-worker was 53, my cousin 51. They both died in their sleep from so-called "natural causes". Seriously? It's NOT natural to die in your sleep in your early 50's. On the flip side, another relative lost 140 pounds on her own with healthy diet and exercise. She told me she was never happy fat even though she pretended to be. I believe her. She was also part of the fat acceptance movement, until she wasn't.
I will object to OP's comment "given that their coping mechanism only affects themselves". Not true. Knowing the pain my aunt and uncle are feeling over the death of their dear daughter just hurts my heart and makes me so sad. Loved ones are affected, as is society as a whole. The number of obese people on disability because they can no longer work (or never worked) has skyrocketed. Therefore, taxpayers are supporting them through monthly disability payments, SNAP (food stamp) benefits, and housing subsidies. Obesity related health conditions are rampant - diabetes, heart disease, hypertension. Those are not just old people diseases anymore. Many insurance companies now cover bariatric surgery because they are weighing the cost effectiveness of covering that expensive surgical process rather than the long-term health issues and costs associated with a lifetime of obesity. I just counted and I know at least a dozen people who have had gastric bypass surgery. Three of them are in my extended family. Frankly, there's something seriously wrong with this trend.
I have seen so many people here on MFP who have reversed the life sentence of obesity and become healthy and happy. I cheer for them and support them and will continue to do so.
Thanks OP for the opportunity to comment and good luck on your journey!51 -
RaeBeeBaby wrote: »The number of obese people on disability because they can no longer work (or never worked) has skyrocketed. Therefore, taxpayers are supporting them through monthly disability payments, SNAP (food stamp) benefits, and housing subsidies.
And here you make the libertarian's argument against a socialized wellfare state for them; that government and "social" control of individual choices occurs when government has control of the purse strings, and that people feel justified in taking that control.
That said, these claims really need to be substantiated.4 -
I subscribe to the idea of treating everyone with dignity and respect, of being the best and healthiest I can be for me, and not trying to change others who are at a different point of their journey than me. It's hard to not criticize and judge...but that's my goal for 2017...to judge and criticize less, accept more...be honest when asked, inspirational when I can...but most importantly be at peace with myself.19
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jennybearlv wrote: »I'm against HAES because, science. I would support a HSAES movement. It stands for Hot and Sexy at Every Size, because I do believe you should feel confident in yourself no matter what your weight or what you look like. But nobody should be deluded into believing they are healthy at a heavier weight.
I like that.
I'd like "healthy as I can be at my size" too. I don't like the idea that people shouldn't try to lose if they want or be aware of the risks, but I also think it's valuable to encourage people who -- for various reasons -- don't want weight loss to be the focus to still do other things to be as fit and healthy as possible. As I've said before I -- stupidly, but whatever -- did not believe I could lose weight at one point, as I felt disconnected from my body, out of control. Just deciding to control what I could and eat healthfully and exercise helped me feel much better and get over this and -- shock, I know ;-) -- I lost weight pretty easily when I did. Simply harping on me about eating less and losing weight wouldn't have helped at that time in my life (I felt like dieting would be awful and impossible and make me miserable without even working), whereas focusing on improving myself and controlling what I understood I could control did help.
Yes, I know that's not what HAES currently is, too bad.1 -
Everyone should be treated with respect and consideration regardless.
Being overweight or obese is very unhealthy and encouraging society to adopt this state as the norm or something to strive for is ludicrous.
I have experienced being criticized constantly when I was chubby so I know what that feels like but since I've been slim, especially when I was really skinny, I was subject to unwelcome comments and outright hate.
I've had strangers lecture me on EDs, about how a "woman needs some meat on her bones because that's what men like" and snicker and poke fun at the size of clothes I was picking off the rack at Winners one day...just to name a few.
When over half the population is overweight, this is already a widely accepted state which does not need to be encouraged. Besides it being unhealthy, I feel that the fat acceptance movement and hating on thin people go hand in hand.15 -
Everyone should be treated with respect and consideration regardless.
Being overweight or obese is very unhealthy and encouraging society to adopt this state as the norm or something to strive for is ludicrous.
I agree 100% with this in terms of general society; I hate people who make it into "us vs them"; I've been at the extremes of being a very lean professional sportsman in my youth to being morbidly obese to being a marathon runner to being morbidly obese; it's not a case of hating someone because they're of a different composition to you and you should treat every single person with the same respect and decency that you'd want to be treated with.
Where I differ a bit is that I think we need to be harsher on our close friends and family members; especially those that believe there is no harm in carrying around a lot of body fat and being much heavier than they should be. I've had a very accepting wife watch me go from 185lb to 310lb while she stayed at her constant 125-130lb; and she loves me regardless, but I do wish she had been a little tougher on my eating habits and a little less enabling too.
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I wish people would separate the arguments for self positivity, and anti-shaming from the Fat Acceptance movement proper. Because they are two separate things.
If you think the Fat Acceptance movement is simply about obese people not wanting to be shamed, you're not aware of things I posted in the other thread.
That is not where the movement is headed. The vanguard of the movement is actively against thin people. The vanguard of the movement shames obese people for losing weight. The vanguard of the movement is taking steps to have the morbidly obese regarded as a protected class.
I firmly believe all of that is hogwash and wrong-headed and is entirely separate from the issue of affording dignity to individuals who are obese.
Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege. Universities have courses specializing in "fat studies". This is taking things too far down into the rabbit hole.
Obesity is a self-inflicted condition that can be treated. I'd rather see some focus on how the complex condition can be effectively addressed than this denial that it's a problem to the point where it's invading academia.29 -
I think there are parts that are wonderful. Adipisitivity art photos showing the beauty that can be found in every body are great! Fashion and art and sexyiness, yes! But I've parted ways with the HAES part of fat acceptance because, while I've found love and fashion and beauty (to an extent) as an obese person, my knees hurt, and my back hurts, and I had gestational diabetes twice. This isn't healthy! I'd love if we could find a middle ground where everyone could feel good about themselves at any size, but could still recognize that they probably don't feed good enough physically to stay their size. Support folks where they're at and help them get where is healthiest for them.14
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I wish people would separate the arguments for self positivity, and anti-shaming from the Fat Acceptance movement proper. Because they are two separate things.
Yes, I think this is a worthwhile point and have been convinced it is true (and I tried to make sure it was separated in my post).
I wonder if anyone has comments on this.8 -
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GuitarJerry wrote: »I think it's good in that there is really no point to body shaming. People gain weight for many reasons, some medical, some due to stress or other circumstances, some because maybe they go through a period of not caring, some due to self-loathing, or maybe mental illness, or sometimes, they are just happy and enjoying life. Whatever the reason, it's not important for me to criticize or judge. It doesn't matter.
The other factor is that I think people look overweight, but they think they are healthy. I do notice that many people these days have a skewed view of a "healthy weight". So, they don't even think they are overweight. But, they are.
No matter what the reason though, it is unhealthy to be overweight or obese. But, it's just none of my business. And, I don't judge.
You don't judge, but you just did. How do you know what someone's healthy weight is? Fat shaming is just fat shaming. People who fat shame need to get a life. They are not so concerned about a stranger's health. Fat is just an easy target.
I used to be 500 lbs. There was nothing medically wrong with me but I was miserable. People are people and everyone has their own issues.
Its negative attitudes and looks that keep a morbidly obese person in the house. If you don't like the way someone looks, then don't look, but at the end of the day they are human just like you. When you are a certain size you have to try to boost yourself up just to go in public. Sorry for the rant, but this to pick upsets me. Don't judge, lest ye be judged yourself.3 -
If being overweight and fat feels physically good why Change?
But, there are a host of other questions to ask yourself. Such as, Do you like how you look, feel attractive, able to be physical in outdoor activities, do you fit in the seat enough where it does not get in personal space of the person next to you. Do you huff and puff walking up a few stairs etc...... If you are worried about long term health issues and diseases then by all mean start making different decisions in what you are eating and doing in your life.
If you feel physically ill and have health issues because of your weight then it's your own responsibilty and truthfulness to be direct and honest with your own self. So if being overweight is keeping you from doing what you wish you could do the the answer is simple. Being overweight is detrimental to you. Start changing how you live. If you are good and being overweight does not affect others then it's no one's elses business.
We just all know that being overweight creates a host of other physical health problems. But make your own decision and accept responsibility for the results that occur down that road. Yes, we all judge and we should. It helps us make decisions in life whether positive or negative.
Fat shaming is different from having an informed set of values and standards each of us live by. I would not shame a fat person for being fat. It's a personal decision for the most part that they've made to be where they are at in a physical sense. This is for the most of overweight people. It was for me. I did not change until it started ruining my health. Some people honestly have health issues out of their control. But, everyone has their own road to travel.2 -
emalethmoon wrote: »I think there are parts that are wonderful. Adipisitivity art photos showing the beauty that can be found in every body are great! Fashion and art and sexyiness, yes! But I've parted ways with the HAES part of fat acceptance because, while I've found love and fashion and beauty (to an extent) as an obese person, my knees hurt, and my back hurts, and I had gestational diabetes twice. This isn't healthy! I'd love if we could find a middle ground where everyone could feel good about themselves at any size, but could still recognize that they probably don't feed good enough physically to stay their size. Support folks where they're at and help them get where is healthiest for them.
For the most part yes. But, the decision lay completely on the person with the overweight issues. No one else. Getting healthiest for overweight person as you say is putting responsibilty on to others. No one else knows exactly how an overweight person got to be overweight. Only they know. Being in an environment whether a weight watchers meeting or online forum is great. There is no way to satisfy a person (s) emotional needs without that person feverishly working on those needs themselves. You can't coddle a person to become strong and independent in any aspect of improvement when it involves emotional growth changes. If coddling helped I would not have an alcoholic daughter. Looking the monster directly in the eye here.
Best luck. FYI I've lost 30pds in 10 months on lchf aka Presently known as Keto.0 -
Pretty tough to jump into this one. I do agree with above posters that fat-shaming and positivity can be separated but their are some correlations.
Treating someone poorly for how they look, is just wrong! Ignoring, Judging and making assumptions is also wrong. It is something I try to catch myself from doing and
However it is pretty clear that the entire fitness industry, most mainstream media (movies, music etc) seem to want to make people feel bad about being overweight. The trickle down effect is that most of us were made to feel the same way. Self esteem takes a beating because it was hard to feel good about yourself when you knew that you didn't fit the mold.
I am not sure its dangerous to make it 'ok' to accept people for what they are. Do you really think an overweight person doesn't want to improve? I don't think making them feel worse about themselves helps in that endeavor. They will in their own time figure it out, because it is not like they aren't already bombarded with images telling them they aren't 'healthy' and 'happy'.
Hit me eventually, and no one telling me I needed to improve was going to motivate me (short of a doctor warning me of major health scare),
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Conflating unhealthy obesity is ok with judging another human being is mostly what I see these days.
A better question in my opinion is how to get a healthy and balanced message to the obese without coming off as judgmental. I don't know the best way to do that, primarily because some folks will listen and some won't. Dunno....1 -
The issue is that people who are obese/very overweight feel discriminated against. And in many cases that's true based on how they may be viewed as lazy, unmotivated, etc. I don't believe you judge a person by how they look physically. Many get exempt for being hired for work because of some of these views.
But at the same time, I don't think we can accept being obese/very overweight as something that's okay from a health perspective............because it's not. If people think it's okay to not worry about it, then they need to work with some people who have had health issues deriving from it. It's not easy to help move someone in and out of a vehicle at 300lbs (I've done it many times).
I'm also not very big on the HAES movement. I've mentioned before that Whitney Thore tries to portray herself as this healthy obese individual and is a big HAES proponent, but as of late she's now been experiencing health issues from her weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Us fattys need acceptance1
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RaeBeeBaby wrote: »The number of obese people on disability because they can no longer work (or never worked) has skyrocketed. Therefore, taxpayers are supporting them through monthly disability payments, SNAP (food stamp) benefits, and housing subsidies.
And here you make the libertarian's argument against a socialized wellfare state for them; that government and "social" control of individual choices occurs when government has control of the purse strings, and that people feel justified in taking that control.
That said, these claims really need to be substantiated.
Having worked with Health and Human Services, and both federal and state medicaid programs as a policy analyst for over 35 years, I've had firsthand experience watching the numbers increase over the years, the costs escalate, and the co-morbid conditions associated with obesity grow. I do believe the fat acceptance movement will contribute to this alarming trend.
Since you asked, here's some light reading to substantiate:
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/obesity.html
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/documents/obesityFactsheet2010.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10696282
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&ved=0ahUKEwiBs7b-iLPRAhWM0FQKHf3tCRoQFghuMBA&url=https://www.mathematica-mpr.com/download-media?MediaItemId=%7B654E332E-D920-4FF7-8E20-48E3DA2E7C85%7D&usg=AFQjCNEmgmYCtxWZcvsGmJ8xnzV0yGrHPg&sig2=SvhM_slR6t5lA9PNndQUNA&cad=rja
And one of the best reports on Obesity in America. (and YES, I have read the entire thing)
http://healthyamericans.org/assets/files/TFAH-2015-ObesityReport-final.22.pdf18 -
The issue is that people who are obese/very overweight feel discriminated against. And in many cases that's true based on how they may be viewed as lazy, unmotivated, etc. I don't believe you judge a person by how they look physically. Many get exempt for being hired for work because of some of these views.
But at the same time, I don't think we can accept being obese/very overweight as something that's okay from a health perspective............because it's not. If people think it's okay to not worry about it, then they need to work with some people who have had health issues deriving from it. It's not easy to help move someone in and out of a vehicle at 300lbs (I've done it many times).
I'm also not very big on the HAES movement. I've mentioned before that Whitney Thore tries to portray herself as this healthy obese individual and is a big HAES proponent, but as of late she's now been experiencing health issues from her weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The problem with discrimination in hiring practice is that the Fat Acceptance movement wants it legislated against, and you really can't. Sometimes, it's a subconscious prejudice, sometimes they're not able to perform the job they're applying for. Obese people also cost employers more. Statistically, they call out sick more often.
FTR? You know who else gets the short end of the stick hiring-wise? Short men. The point being that it's a slippery slope to take statistics like this and then maybe think we need to "do" something about them.
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Conflating unhealthy obesity is ok with judging another human being is mostly what I see these days.
IMO, unhealthy obesity is unhealthy and people should (and mostly are, I think) be aware of that. Is that "okay"? I don't know what it means in this context. Plenty of people are okay with unhealthy lifestyles for themselves, and that doesn't make them not okay, in my eyes.
We probably shouldn't judge (if one applies a Christian perspective, anyway), but we do, everyone does, about all kinds of things. IMO, judging doesn't really matter, but we should accept others as they are, not treat them badly because they are overweight, not fail to see them as human beings, etc. Of course, I don't think this has anything to do with fat acceptance, it's basic politeness and caring about other people, being a decent person.A better question in my opinion is how to get a healthy and balanced message to the obese without coming off as judgmental. I don't know the best way to do that, primarily because some folks will listen and some won't. Dunno....
I don't think it's my place to tell others about the unhealthfulness of their obesity, and I don't assume they don't know that or that they are not working on it. I do think it's a reasonable idea for us to educate the population on health, including the importance of not being obese, nutrition, getting in physical activity, etc. This is done through schools, doctors, public health initiatives, etc. I suspect people are actually more aware of it than when I was young (when obesity was not yet a problem).3
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