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Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
Replies
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The opposite of acceptance is not hatred. If being overweight threatens quality of health or health risk, there is no reason to accept that. However, all people have a right to be treated with compassion and there is no place for judgement or shaming of fat (or thin, or whatever minority you are) in a healthy community/society.3
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I feel like the "fat" movement in my mind is being 15-30 pounds overweight, and learning to love yourself and not hate your body etc - a good thing in my book. But normalizing being 100+ pounds overweight is irresponsible. I understand there are health condition that make you gain weight - you can love yourself and still know you are unhealthy. two very different things.6
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janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Legislation has been attempted to be introduced in one Canadian province along the lines of the granting the obese special privilege.
Which one? And what are they trying to do? Do you have a link to this (please)? I'm curious.
Thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-liberals-weight-human-rights-1.3864788
From the article: "Lindsey Mazur, a dietitian, said some overweight people she works with are being denied surgeries and other care unless they lose weight first. In the workforce, some people are losing out on promotions because of their weight, she added."
This sounds like they want equal access to medical treatment and job opportunities, not special privileges.
That promotion story was sketchy as all get out in the first place, imo. It's straight out of a tumblr fantasy.
How exactly do you prove that a fat person was passed over for a job promotion?
Medical treatment? See the post above yours. They want treatment that is not safe at their weight. They want treatment that they don't fit the equipment for.
I have read countless tales on reddit from nurses and doctors who have cared for the very, very obese (think over 400 pounds) who have explained in clinical detail exactly why it's these services aren't provided and why weight loss needs to happen.
It's not discrimination. It's a safety issue.
I imagine you'd prove it the same way one would prove an age, racial, or gender discrimination case. The fact that discrimination may be challenging to prove isn't a justification for ignoring it when it is happening.
If someone wants treatment that isn't safe at their weight, that's one thing. But I know personally know someone who was denied treatment for a skin condition due to weight -- the doctor said there wasn't any point in treating the condition in someone who wasn't taking care of themselves. The treatment for the skin condition wasn't riskier due to weight (my friend got a second opinion and was able to get his treatment). I am sure the anecdotes you've read on reddit are accurate for the experiences of those recounting them. But consider that there may be other experiences, ones that you aren't seeing on reddit.
Please don't mistake me for advocating for something that I'm not. If a procedure isn't safe for someone due to an underlying condition that should be taken into account.
Everyone has experiences with idiot doctors. They don't need protection under the law to pursue a second opinion.
Legislating this will increase medical costs, insurance costs and is not necessary for these cases like your friend. I can assure you that the thinking of the movement and the push behind this legislation is thus:
Weight is neutral. Body size is something that comes in diversity, just as skin color does. Society needs to ebmrace that and accommodate that.
For further reading, please see this web site. While their mission statement gives lip service to ending discrimination, you need to look under the hood as to what they consider to be discrimination.
https://www.sizediversityandhealth.org/
Legislating for this kind of stuff is a slippery slope, because I believe it would promote the backwards thinking that underlies the Fat Acceptance movement regarding obesity.
As I stated earlier, this is not the way to address the issues these people are facing.
I appreciate that you wish to educate me, but I'm acquainted with the goals and perspective of the Fat Acceptance movement.
Yes, people can seek second opinions. But should doctors be denying medical care to people based on their weight (when the weight itself isn't a factor that will make a surgery/treatment more risky)? I have an opinion on this, you may have a different opinion. My opinion isn't based in ignorance of the situation.
Writing someone a prescription for a skin condition isn't "embracing" a condition, it's practicing medicine. Why should a fat person have to go to doctor after doctor to get adequate treatment? That medical professionals should provide a basic standard of care isn't "backwards thinking" in my view.
Weight isn't neutral in all cases. But if a doctor would write a prescription for a thin person with a skin condition and refuse to write the same prescription for a larger person strictly due to weight (again, not potential complications or risks, but just a feeling about fat people) . . . that's weight playing a role that it shouldn't play.
Same with jobs. If someone is passed over for a promotion or refused a job simply due to their weight and not their ability to do a job, that's weight playing a role that it shouldn't play. Some of the most competent and impressive people I work with are overweight or obese. In many jobs, it just isn't a relevant factor. Why shouldn't weight be neutral in those cases?
If that's backwards thinking, then I'll be backward.
I'm not saying that bias doesn't exist. There are definitely doctors (in fact I believe there's hard data out there on this, I'm pretty sure I've seen a statistic quoted on it) out there who admit that they have trouble with obese people, and sometimes it's with good reason, because they're often not compliant with their own health care, much in the way smokers are. The answer to people who continued to smoke against medical advice wasn't to accommodate smokers, it was to find ways to deal with the smoking problem. I feel the same way about obesity.
I don't believe that we can legislated against every bias people encounter, and especially in this case since it's a self-inflicted condition that a person often chooses to remain in. I think this is a slippery slope society should not start down and that there are other avenues for people wronged by idiots can pursue.
That makes sense -- thanks for explaining.
My mom is a nurse-practitioner and she says that the majority of the problems she encounters (she deals with the chronically ill) are related to lack of compliance. It can be really frustrating for professionals trying to do their best then to feel like the patients themselves (or the responsible caretakers) aren't even trying to meet them halfway.
The vast majority of medical practitioners would have the same view as your mother. Before anyone weighs in on the state of healthcare I always recommend they spend a week (this is all it would take) working in a free clinic to see what the real problems are.
Most of us volunteer our time waiting for that one patient in fifty who actually needs help and will listen - when that moment comes it is magic.5 -
i dont know about fat acceptance but being rude to someone who is fat is not necessary. people take liberties and do stuff like pat your stomach and make comments. Here is the most outrageous thing that happened to me. In high school i was 180 and at age 50 (when my sister died) i was 350 (now 240 and going down) I was at my sisters funeral and a woman that was a "friend" of the family that i had not seen in years walks up to me, looks me up and down and says "what happened to you?" That is the truth i swear.1
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I don't think anyone else has any business "accepting" someone or not. Poo on you if you judge me by my appearance and not the content of my character. I don't think anyone should be mean or rude to anyone, fat or scrawny, redhead or blonde, blue eyed or brown. I am not for you to "accept" or "condemn". Deal with your own issues before you try and "help" me tackle mine, LOL!
Personally, I am trying to lose weight because I am dissatisfied with my appearance. I couldn't give a fig what anyone else thinks and if anyone is rude enough to let me know their opinion, I show them the same courtesy.3 -
I don't think anyone else has any business "accepting" someone or not. Poo on you if you judge me by my appearance and not the content of my character. I don't think anyone should be mean or rude to anyone, fat or scrawny, redhead or blonde, blue eyed or brown. I am not for you to "accept" or "condemn". Deal with your own issues before you try and "help" me tackle mine, LOL!
Personally, I am trying to lose weight because I am dissatisfied with my appearance. I couldn't give a fig what anyone else thinks and if anyone is rude enough to let me know their opinion, I show them the same courtesy.
I judge everyone. Actually everyone judges everyone...I mean your judging people who judge people.
It doesn't change my life one bit if being fat is acceptable or not. I don't care unless it offends my eyes by what I see. shivers... ill just look away and make fun in secret.4 -
I agree that everyone judges others. It's in our nature. Hopefully everyone doesn't make fun. That's not cool.3
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Not accepting people for the way they appear, race, religion, sex, etc, for any reason, is prejudice, and it is wrong.
No justification for this. Not anyone's responsibility to judge anyone else. It shows immaturity, lack of compassion, and bad manners. My opinion.1 -
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »Hey
First off, I know this is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope we can keep things civil!
I'm on the fence about the fat acceptance thing. And, at nearly 300lbs, I don't really want to spend too long on anything, especially a fence!!
Part of me thinks that fat acceptance is a tad bit dangerous in its attempts to normalise what is, essentially (although I am aware that I'm generalising here) , an unhealthy lifestyle. I'd also, although cautiously, argue that, while variation in weight is of course normal, openly stating that being 100lb+ over a 'normal' weight is anything other than a health concern is irresponsible. (Although I'm not saying that being ashamed is appropriate either.)
That said however, i guess it has many benefits... for instance I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person. Both have made choices that impact their health... but only one is outwardly visible and is used to bully and mock people who, let's face it, likely use food as a coping mechanism.... pretty crappy given that there coping mechanism only affects themselves (as opposed to someone that acts like an arsehole to relieve stress etc.). Plus, maybe you need to be in a position where you feel like you're worth something before you can allow yourself to hope for better (although I don't know if anyone fully into fat acceptance would agree with the use of the word "better"...)
What do you guys think??
Sounds like you have some things to work out yet in your psyche.
What exactly is wrong with her "psyche"? Seems to me like she hit it pretty spot on. As a former smoker I can attest to everything that she pointed out about smokers vs fat people.
It's very rude of you to attack someone personally without even an ounce of reasoning to back it up.5 -
I'm not on the fence with this, I'm over it. I absolutely refuse to promote fat-acceptance. If you're 100+ lbs overweight, you're not healthy. I am in that category, so I would know. I don't have diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol or any of that awesome stuff that comes with obesity. But I do have a bmi over 40 and eventually the weight that I'm carrying WILL someday take its toll on my heart if I don't do something. It's not an if, it's a when.
So while I agree that no one has a right to publicly shame anyone, I think it's very irresponsible to promote fat acceptance. I wouldn't say a thing to a stranger about their weight nor would I treat someone differently based on that either. But if it's a family member or close friend, I will definitely express my concern and make it clear that I'm there to help in any way that I can. I do this for my own daughters. I won't sugarcoat it for them. I make it very clear the cards that our heredity will deal us. So while they're fit and active now (like I once was), it's something that they will have to pay attention to the rest of their lives. Because the second they stop, they will end up like me, or worse, my mother. She's currently in the hospital waiting for a miracle! She's an obese diabetic amputee with less than 20% of her heart pumping and less than 40% lung capacity. She needs to have the rest of her leg amputated to stop the spread of infection that is in her stump. However, she won't make it off the table. So short of a miracle or some hospital that is experienced enough to take the risk of surgery, she has a matter of weeks, maybe months if she's lucky.
This is a woman who spent my childhood preaching "love yourself the way you are", "you only live once, live it up - eat, drink, be merry" - and look what that got her. She's 57.
So no, let's NOT promote fat-acceptance. Let's promote being healthy. Healthy comes in a variety of shapes and sizes.15 -
I think it's crap. It's basically saying "I am a failure, I don't want to improve and please don't criticize me".5
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Well I think people who don't spend at least an hour a day practicing an instrument or developing creativity, and at least 4 hours a week volunteering in their community, and who don't read at least two books a month, or speak at least two languages are failing to live up to the social compact where they should do everything they can to improve themselves for the community.
And that makes them people who should expect not to hold jobs where they interact with people and certainly not be paid as much as those who bother to live up to my arbitrary expectations. They are poor rules models for their children and bad public citizens.
How dare they think their life choices are adequate or be hurt when other people judge them. They should get a grip and realize everyone judges people when they make bad decisions.
#satire9 -
fattymcrunnerpants wrote: »
I'll never in my life forget what a surgeon said to me after removing part of my thyroid. I had gone to him as I had a tumor growing on it. While I was in the hospital he told me that he hadn't made an effort to hide the large scar because I was "Fat, unattractive and didn't deserve to have the scar hidden". Surgeons USEUALLY try to cut along the neck folds to hide an obvious scar. I made a complaint to the hospital board but since I'm not a protected class nothing happened. That kind of behavior is not OK at all.
Similarly, I have a friend whose husband is a surgeon. Apparently when fat women have c-sections they don't put nearly the same amount of effort into making the stitches (and subsequent scar) look good, as they do for thin women. Their reason was that a fat woman probably wouldn't wear a bikini anyway, so why bother.0 -
Well this actually happened to me at Disney World. A female and her kids got on the transportation bus. Myself and my brother in law, were both sitting and we both got up to let the female sit down. She chose his spot (which was beside me). I was at the end of the seat (bench seats) and she sat to my left. Every time the bus driver stopped she slid into me and pressed me into the end of the bench. And she was well over 250lbs. Not discriminating, but it was an uncomfortable ride all the way to our hotel.I think it's good in the fact that it promotes not being a total *kitten* to someone because they are fat. I mean really, how does someone else being fat affect me?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sorry but lve had this happen to me before also and the person was of perfectly normal weight as am l. I think buses tend to push people, no seat belts and all. Now airplanes are another story.1 -
...I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person...
I personally think smoking is the worst. It's filthy and vile. And I judge the hell out of smokers. (Sorry, not sorry.)
I'd rather sit next to an obese person than sit next to a smoker (either actively smoking or just sitting there reeking of it) any day. I'm not sure that's a good comparison. I would definitely give more crap to a smoker. Just sayin'.2 -
RaeBeeBaby wrote: »
And one of the best reports on Obesity in America. (and YES, I have read the entire thing)
http://healthyamericans.org/assets/files/TFAH-2015-ObesityReport-final.22.pdf
From the report:
"Adolescents with metabolic syndrome
— a composite of obesity compo-
nents — have significantly lower
overall intelligence scores, including
in math and spelling, and have lower
mental flexibility and attention spans
than adolescents without metabolic
syndrome."
"The majority of overweight children (81
percent boys and 71 percent of girls) be-
lieve they are about the correct weight."
"Obese adults spend 42 percent more
on direct healthcare costs than adults
who are a healthy weight.
Per capita healthcare costs for severely or
morbidly obese adults (BMI >40) are 81
percent higher than for healthy weight
adults.
In 2000, around $11 billion
was spent on medical expenditures for
morbidly obese U.S. adults."
Terrifying!
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I was thinking about this the other day. I grew up in a family where obesity was a norm. I was obese my whole life until recent years, and I am still overweight now. The obesity in my family has resulted in ill health - physical and mental - and limits life choices. It's not seem thing I can 'accept' as ok. But nor would I 'accept' alcoholism, diabetes or manic depression if they were issues for me or my family. The shaming that goes in in society, however, is body shaming, not fat shaming. And people's bodies are shamed for being fat, puffy, scarred, skinny, short, tall, not tanned, spotty etc etc. Until we stop focussing on appearance, reading magazines full of polished, airbrushed celebrities, avidly following before and after photos as *the* evidence of a new healthy lifestyle, body shaming will continue. How about a body acceptance movement?1
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Everybody has the right to live their lives free from ridicule and abuse, nobody should be pointed at and/or subjected to shaming, ridicule and general "Ew!" treatment on account of their size.
However, what I'm seeing with the fat acceptance movement is that it is becoming an entitlement movement full of hypocrisy, with plenty of hate for slimmer women and a complete lack of empathy for anybody male who happens to be overweight.
Health At Every Size - unless your size is less than mine, by which point you become a 'shallow, stuck-up, anorexic, skinny 12 year-old boy"
Body Positivity - unless your size is less than mine and you will be subject to a whole heap of body negativity (see above)
Rejecting a woman on the dating scene because of her weight = fatphobia. Rejecting a man on the dating scene because of his height = perfectly natural preference. Not to mention that the men are still expected to be ripped and shredded. See any fat acceptance dating meme and it's always an overweight woman with a man built like a Calvin Klein model. Where's the love for the fatter guys? So much for acceptance! Obese woman = curvy, BBW, plus sized, etc. Obese (or even overweight) man = just plain fat!
I can't be onboard any movement that plagues itself with hypocrisy, thinly-veiled hate and an overbearing sense of entitlement.7 -
Just my two cents, but I think this false in shades of grey rather than being a clear cut thing. I believe strongly in body positivity for all shapes and sizes. And loving yourself as you are can be a strong motivator to bettering yourself. Think of it this way: People who hate their bodies and can't find ways to love themselves as they are will more than likely be the same people who fail at their attempts of change it. And I think that it ties back to trying to change for the wrong reasons. I think change has to come from a positive and healthy place.
Though some people can take it too far, just like too much of any sort of good thing can be bad.3 -
MandaB9780 wrote: »
What exactly is wrong with her "psyche"? Seems to me like she hit it pretty spot on. As a former smoker I can attest to everything that she pointed out about smokers vs fat people.
It's very rude of you to attack someone personally without even an ounce of reasoning to back it up.
Hi, Manda.
The mind, soul, or spirit, as opposed to the body. In psychology, the psyche is the center of thought, feeling, and motivation, consciously and unconsciously directing the body's reactions to its social and physical environment.
The OP stated she was on the fence about the subject. She raised valid points for both sides of the fence, yet has not reached a conclusion for herself.
Hence my comment confirming that she has yet to work it out in her mind.
If that's a rude attack...
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