The whoosh theory: true or false?
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
Sorry if a similar question was posted not long ago but I keep seeing this theory around the internet that tries to explain weight loss plateaus, called the whoosh effect. It basically says that often when you lose weight, the fat in the fat cells is first replaced by water (hence no weight loss on the scale) until there's no fat in the cell left and it 'collapses' followed by a whoosh effect where you suddenly lose a lot of weight at once.
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
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Replies
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Its false.
the cell does not collapse. The number of fat cells in our body is constant after we reach a certain age (around 25 ish) Cells are either repaired or replaced when the cell gets old. So even if the cell does not contain any fat, it will still be there.
Also, keep in mind that the cell is just a storage palce for energy. As with any storage space, it can hold 100% fat (max capacity) or it could be 1% Not sure if it can be zero (as in not active) but it will still be there until replaced by a new cell.2 -
Its false.
the cell does not collapse. The number of fat cells in our body is constant after we reach a certain age (around 25 ish) Cells are either repaired or replaced when the cell gets old. So even if the cell does not contain any fat, it will still be there.
Also, keep in mind that the cell is just a storage palce for energy. As with any storage space, it can hold 100% fat (max capacity) or it could be 1% Not sure if it can be zero (as in not active) but it will still be there until replaced by a new cell.
While this is true, I do believe that adipose tissue may hold excess water after stored triglycerides have been used for energy.
I have personally experienced the whoosh several times and have experienced the "squishy fat" that generally proceeds this effect.7 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Its false.
the cell does not collapse. The number of fat cells in our body is constant after we reach a certain age (around 25 ish) Cells are either repaired or replaced when the cell gets old. So even if the cell does not contain any fat, it will still be there.
Also, keep in mind that the cell is just a storage palce for energy. As with any storage space, it can hold 100% fat (max capacity) or it could be 1% Not sure if it can be zero (as in not active) but it will still be there until replaced by a new cell.
While this is true, I do believe that adipose tissue may hold excess water after stored triglycerides have been used for energy.
I have personally experienced the whoosh several times and have experienced the "squishy fat" that generally proceeds this effect.
What you've experienced is that your weight loss appeared to stall, then you lost weight suddenly. Nobody can argue with that, that absolutely happens. But it's completely explained by the fact that water retention is cycling up and down and so makes steady fat loss appear like a series of stalls and whooshes. It's not evidence of anything to do with where the water is stored or any elaborate mechanism to do with fat cells.
The "squishy fat", in my opinion, is also adequately explained by your skin adapting to loss of fat, plus a good dose of confirmation bias. The skin on my belly often feels squashy during weight loss, but not in any particular pattern.
I will never understand why this story is necessary or helpful. You are losing fat. Sometimes you don't see it because of water retention ("stalls"). Other times you see it and it's exaggerated because of loss of water ("whooshes"). I don't see the need for any other explanation.9 -
yes, to my knowledge, a fat cell can contain up to 10-12% water. (just about anything contains water in some shape or form)
But still, a fat cell does not vanish, even when its not "used". It will be replaced when it dies
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I lost 25 kg (55 lbs) and never ever experienced a "whoosh". But I did experience the "squishy fat". I had "squishy fat" for months while I continued to steadily lose weight.2
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The fat cell stays, it just fills up with water when you lose fat... then you drop the water weight and you actually lose weight. I did read articles about it but I'm too tired and lazy to look that up now.
It's how I lost all my weight, by the way. Just wooshed it out the week after my period every month.8 -
It's a theory based on observation and experience - so you could say it's not really either true or false, neither proven or disproven.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
The whooshes did seem to happen to me and I had a visual difference in how some of my fat appeared before the whoosh.15 -
It's a theory based on observation and experience - so you could say it's not really either true or false, neither proven or disproven.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
The whooshes did seem to happen to me and I had a visual difference in how some of my fat appeared before the whoosh.
This. I don't know the exact mechanism, but it's extremely common.3 -
It's a theory based on observation and experience - so you could say it's not really either true or false, neither proven or disproven.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
The whooshes did seem to happen to me and I had a visual difference in how some of my fat appeared before the whoosh.
This. No one knows the mechanism or reason but this is a good enough explanation.
I have experienced "squishy fat" and whoosh's many times.5 -
I'm in a squishy fat phase (and have been for a good few weeks). I HATE the squishy fat phases... I have the impression I look like a marshmallow right now...
I don't care what the mechanics of it are. But I'm seriously looking forward for the whoosh and the nice feeling of NOT being squishy that comes with it.3 -
longstocking wrote: »Sorry if a similar question was posted not long ago but I keep seeing this theory around the internet that tries to explain weight loss plateaus, called the whoosh effect. It basically says that often when you lose weight, the fat in the fat cells is first replaced by water (hence no weight loss on the scale) until there's no fat in the cell left and it 'collapses' followed by a whoosh effect where you suddenly lose a lot of weight at once.
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
Pretty much everything we know about how fat cells work tells us that this idea that fat cells become sacks of water is false. You might consider this: if it is a lack of energy that causes a fat cell to release fat, where does the energy come from to allow the fat cell to take on water? And if that energy is available, then why doesn't the fat cell just take on fat since it is an abundance of energy that causes the cell to take on fat?4 -
TimothyFish wrote: »longstocking wrote: »Sorry if a similar question was posted not long ago but I keep seeing this theory around the internet that tries to explain weight loss plateaus, called the whoosh effect. It basically says that often when you lose weight, the fat in the fat cells is first replaced by water (hence no weight loss on the scale) until there's no fat in the cell left and it 'collapses' followed by a whoosh effect where you suddenly lose a lot of weight at once.
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
Pretty much everything we know about how fat cells work tells us that this idea that fat cells become sacks of water is false. You might consider this: if it is a lack of energy that causes a fat cell to release fat, where does the energy come from to allow the fat cell to take on water? And if that energy is available, then why doesn't the fat cell just take on fat since it is an abundance of energy that causes the cell to take on fat?
I could be wrong, but i'm like 99% sure that osmosis and defusion don't require energy.12 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »I'm in a squishy fat phase (and have been for a good few weeks). I HATE the squishy fat phases... I have the impression I look like a marshmallow right now...
I don't care what the mechanics of it are. But I'm seriously looking forward for the whoosh and the nice feeling of NOT being squishy that comes with it.
Same here. It's the worst part of fat loss in my opinion as you look fatter and less defined until the fat decides to go.2 -
rainbowbow wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »longstocking wrote: »Sorry if a similar question was posted not long ago but I keep seeing this theory around the internet that tries to explain weight loss plateaus, called the whoosh effect. It basically says that often when you lose weight, the fat in the fat cells is first replaced by water (hence no weight loss on the scale) until there's no fat in the cell left and it 'collapses' followed by a whoosh effect where you suddenly lose a lot of weight at once.
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
Pretty much everything we know about how fat cells work tells us that this idea that fat cells become sacks of water is false. You might consider this: if it is a lack of energy that causes a fat cell to release fat, where does the energy come from to allow the fat cell to take on water? And if that energy is available, then why doesn't the fat cell just take on fat since it is an abundance of energy that causes the cell to take on fat?
I could be wrong, but i'm like 99% sure that osmosis and defusion don't require energy.
That 1% is a killer. While the energy required to move something from one side of the cell wall to the other is insignificant, for osmosis to occur there must be an abundance of water outside the cell. Getting water to the cell requires energy. Also, there has to be something in the cell that attracts water. Fat molecules and water molecules aren't interchangeable, so changing the concentration in the cell so that it attracts water would require energy.5 -
So, where is the water held? I know some is retained in muscles if they are in need of repair, but otherwise where is it held and how does sodium change that?
Just curious. I've had wooshes and I know sodium adds weight.1 -
I've never experienced anything like this. I suppose it depends on the person...0
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In my experience, my squishy fat has been due to stretched out skin that is lined with fat. It's squishy because there's no longer an abundance of visceral fat holding my abdominal skin taut. I'm not sure if people who talk about squishy fat are talking about squishy abdominal areas or squishiness elsewhere, which is something I've never experienced.3
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Tacklewasher wrote: »So, where is the water held? I know some is retained in muscles if they are in need of repair, but otherwise where is it held and how does sodium change that?
Just curious. I've had wooshes and I know sodium adds weight.
It just accumulates in bodily tissues...the human body is 50-60% water0 -
longstocking wrote: »Sorry if a similar question was posted not long ago but I keep seeing this theory around the internet that tries to explain weight loss plateaus, called the whoosh effect. It basically says that often when you lose weight, the fat in the fat cells is first replaced by water (hence no weight loss on the scale) until there's no fat in the cell left and it 'collapses' followed by a whoosh effect where you suddenly lose a lot of weight at once.
So I know that the fat cells don't collapse but is the rest of the science incorrect as well? I mean, I know water retention is a thing and a lot of people do experience sometimes sudden weight loss of several pounds after weeks or months of not losing but the idea that the fat is remplaced with water within the cells sounds too far-fetched.
So does anyone have any scientific data to back or disprove this theory?
It's not science; there are no studies backing it up. At best, it's an untested hypothesis.
That said, squishy fat followed by a whoosh is a very common observation/experience. The "water in the fat cells" is just a nice story to reassure people that they're not imagining things and that they're on-track.3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »So, where is the water held? I know some is retained in muscles if they are in need of repair, but otherwise where is it held and how does sodium change that?
Just curious. I've had wooshes and I know sodium adds weight.
The fluid that is retained in muscles after exercise is due to capillaries leaking. The strain of exercise creates tiny breaks in them, allowing fluids to leak into the surrounding tissue. This fluid serves as a quick temporary fix for the damage while the normal tissue cells go about the process of replicating themselves to make the permanent fix.
Sodium is the electrolyte that is responsible for pulling water into cells. When you eat a lot of sodium the cells that absorb the sodium will tend to retain water until potassium releases it. This is why people with high blood pressure are encouraged to limit their sodium intake. Sodium in the blood cells causes them to hold more water and it makes blood thicker. But this is something that happens throughout the body, it isn't a special characteristic of fat cells and it isn't a result of the fat cell releasing fat.5 -
I have no idea why it happens, but like many others I have lots a significant amount overnight after no change for weeks.
I was stuck at a weight for TWO weeks. I was about to try and figure out what I was doing wrong. Then I went out for a treat meal - two days later I had lost 0.9 kg. No idea why this happens but the key message is: Do not give up! Even if it does not seem to be working.0 -
I have no idea why this is, but sometimes when I've worked out hard on a previous day, and am retaining lots of water, I will crave sodium (I'm not a big salt eater). Twice in the past month I calmed the craving without adding calories by microwaving a coffee mug of water with a good old Wylers chicken bullion cube. And within the same day or next day I'd have a whoosh. I'm almost wondering if my lack of sodium doesn't help with water retention.
Probably my imagination that salt actually helped relieve water retention, but that was my observation.0 -
Soooo…. basically there is no science to back up this theory, but there is no alternate theory for why weight loss is not linear even in the presence of a consistent deficit.2
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Soooo…. basically there is no science to back up this theory, but there is no alternate theory for why weight loss is not linear even in the presence of a consistent deficit.
The human body is 50-65% water...fluctuations in water can be substantial...they can mask fat loss...this is not the same thing as water taking up space in fat cells and then "whooshing". You also have variable amounts of waste in your system at any one time.
While I have not experienced a linear relationship in weight loss, I have also not experienced going months without a loss and then some big whoosh either. In most cases for myself, it's a smaller loss one week...maybe no loss one week...a slightly bigger loss one week, etc...when I average it out over weeks, that average is roughly equal to my desired rate.
Also, the deficit equation while valid is a vast oversimplification of what is going on in the body. The human body is very adept at conserving energy when necessary as well as becoming less efficient when necessary. Like if you ate 3,500 calories over your maintenance for a singular day, you would not default to 1 Lb of fat gain...the human body is very adept at energy balance and it takes consistently underfeeding to lose weight and overfeeding to gain weight.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Soooo…. basically there is no science to back up this theory, but there is no alternate theory for why weight loss is not linear even in the presence of a consistent deficit.
The human body is 50-65% water...fluctuations in water can be substantial...they can mask fat loss...this is not the same thing as water taking up space in fat cells and then "whooshing". You also have variable amounts of waste in your system at any one time.
While I have not experienced a linear relationship in weight loss, I have also not experienced going months without a loss and then some big whoosh either. In most cases for myself, it's a smaller loss one week...maybe no loss one week...a slightly bigger loss one week, etc...when I average it out over weeks, that average is roughly equal to my desired rate.
Also, the deficit equation while valid is a vast oversimplification of what is going on in the body. The human body is very adept at conserving energy when necessary as well as becoming less efficient when necessary. Like if you ate 3,500 calories over your maintenance for a singular day, you would not default to 1 Lb of fat gain...the human body is very adept at energy balance and it takes consistently underfeeding to lose weight and overfeeding to gain weight.
Do you mean that the fluid is interstitial rather than intracellular?
edit: no snark, just conversing.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Soooo…. basically there is no science to back up this theory, but there is no alternate theory for why weight loss is not linear even in the presence of a consistent deficit.
The human body is 50-65% water...fluctuations in water can be substantial...they can mask fat loss...this is not the same thing as water taking up space in fat cells and then "whooshing". You also have variable amounts of waste in your system at any one time.
While I have not experienced a linear relationship in weight loss, I have also not experienced going months without a loss and then some big whoosh either. In most cases for myself, it's a smaller loss one week...maybe no loss one week...a slightly bigger loss one week, etc...when I average it out over weeks, that average is roughly equal to my desired rate.
Also, the deficit equation while valid is a vast oversimplification of what is going on in the body. The human body is very adept at conserving energy when necessary as well as becoming less efficient when necessary. Like if you ate 3,500 calories over your maintenance for a singular day, you would not default to 1 Lb of fat gain...the human body is very adept at energy balance and it takes consistently underfeeding to lose weight and overfeeding to gain weight.
Do you mean that the fluid is interstitial rather than intracellular?
edit: no snark, just conversing.
Well, we retain water in our body tissues which are made up of cells...but I've never seen anything compelling that would lead me to believe that the fat in fat cells is displaced by water...
I think maybe women experience this more because they go through far more hormonal changes in a months time than a guy does which is going to have a pretty profound impact on water retention and release.2 -
Whooshes are real. The thing that sets them apart from say, water retention because of new or increased intensity exercise is the thing called squishy fat. That is a well described phenomena that Lyle writes about in the article linked above. That squishy fat develops as a person's weight loss stalls, then suddenly there is a whoosh and the pebbly squishy fat disappears post whoosh.
I personally have never experienced anything like this. My water retention is quite different without the squishy fat, and usually is not something that masks my weight loss for long periods of time. However, I do know people who have had squishy fat and whooshes as described in the article linked above.
Having said that, I highly doubt the explanation of water going in to fat cells replacing some or all of the triglycerides is an accurate representation of what is going on. It is, however, part of the scientific process. There is an observed situation, and the scientist puts forward an hypothesis as to what is going on. The difficulty here is developing a protocol to do some sort of tests to determine what is going on, not to mention is is unlikely that funding for such research would be easy to come by as long as there are other areas of research that are far more pressing.
Suffice it to say that squishy fat and whooshes are real. Why they happen, at this point we don't know. Does it happen to everyone? Likely not.3 -
It's a theory based on observation and experience - so you could say it's not really either true or false, neither proven or disproven.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html/
The whooshes did seem to happen to me and I had a visual difference in how some of my fat appeared before the whoosh.
Was going to post Lyle's link too.
I had my whooshes down.
Would diet hard during the week, have a fat burger Saturday night, whoosh Sunday from the excess calories and sodium. N=1 but whatever.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »While I have not experienced a linear relationship in weight loss, I have also not experienced going months without a loss and then some big whoosh either.
That's because you're male. Women's menstrual cycles see us retaining many pounds of water at certain times of the month and make us very prone to the "whoosh" effect - especially as we get closer to goal weight.2 -
I only ever experienced one stall with a whoosh. It was right after I started weightlifting last year. Stalled for around 4 weeks, and then over a couple days, big drop. It was fracken frustrating, because I knew my logging was spot on. The only thing that kept me focused was knowing that the tracking was spot on. I expect that the water retention was enough to mask the loss for a while. I can't say for sure about the squishy fat though. At the time, I was convinced, but now my logical mind says I was reaching for an explanation.0
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