March 2017 Running Challenge
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@breakingred welcome! Just a heads up...keep watching this space and sometime on the last day of the month @Stoshew71 will post the link to the April thread. So if you come back in April and nobody's here...that's where we went.
There's still time to fit in a few more runs this month if you want to post a goal for the rest of March.
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01/03 3.52 miles
02/03 5.02 miles
04/03 4.5 miles
08/03 5.16 miles
09/03 3.54 miles
10/03 3.51 miles
12/03 3.01 miles
14/03 3.51 miles
15/03 4.02 miles
20/03 3.82 miles
21/03 4.04 miles
23/03 4.51 miles
24/03 4.41 miles
25/03 3.75 miles
27/03 3.77 miles
28/03 3.76 miles
Those shoes look like they'd be lots of fun but dangerous!
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lporter229 wrote: »I have been reading up on the Boston course, and, although I am feeling much better about where I am now vs. a month ago, I am concerned about the course. The Boston course is notoriously challenging due tho the placement of the hills. I must say, that on paper it does not look too bad, but I will not doubt the expert opinion that it's a pretty rough one.
I have never really had an issue with hills. I train with hills (both targeted hill workouts and generally hilly terrain). Most of my long runs include a fair amount of elevation. Of the 4 marathons I have run, two were really flat and the Flying Pig (which I have run twice) is pretty hilly, but most of the elevation is on the front half of the course, so I have never had to deal with a marathon with hills at the back end of the course. And especially not when nursing an injury.
I was reading an article on the Runner's World website yesterday about training specifically for Boston, and it recommended a lot of focused hill training. Again, I don't generally worry about hills, but with the way my training has gone over the last 6 weeks (waaay under trained due to my hamstring), I have not done anything to solidify my ability to conquer the hills late in the race. I am contemplating doing some targeted hill repeats at lunch today and I am wondering if this is a good idea. I am not sure if the risk outweighs the reward. As the owner of our local running store said to me this weekend: Better to arrive under trained than over injured.
I was hoping maybe some of you could weigh in with your opinions (particularly @MobyCarp or anyone else who has run the course before)? Should I be doing anything to test my tired legs on hills for the late part of the race, or am I better off just nursing them and seeing what I am in for on race day? FWIW, I still have not decided on a race strategy. A lot of that hinges on how my 20 mile run goes this weekend. My last two longish runs have been with friends, so I have not really tested myself yet. This will be my marathon simulator run and I plan to do it solo.
@lporter229 - To some extent, hills are in the eye of the beholder. Before my first Boston, I talked to everyone I could find who had run it. That's quite a few people in the Rochester running community. Perceptions of Heartbreak Hill and Newton were all over the map; the more experienced marathoners who had run Boston several times and were familiar with how I ran some local hilly races (Flower City Half, Spring Forward 15K, new Rochester Half course) said I wouldn't have any problem if I didn't go out too fast.
It turned out I did go out too fast, but it didn't bite me hard until I got past the hills. I knew I was too tired by mile 14, but I ran the hills of Newton and Heartbreak, mostly passing other runners. Some of them were walking. That felt great, considering they were mostly ahead of me because they were seeded ahead of me, i.e. they had run faster marathons than I had.
Where I had problems was the impact of all the downhill running on my legs. As a local race director and former professional endurance runner/duathlete said of one of his hilly courses, "The uphill segments may break the spirits of some newbies, but it's the downhill segments that turn your legs into ground beef." Late in Boston 2016, I noticed every little incline and decline on Commonwealth Avenue. The inclines were easier to run than the declines were.
I'm not sure I've learned all the correct lessons from running Boston last year, but here's what I think I've learned that will apply to you: Getting your legs healthy is far more important that running more hills in the last 3 weeks before Patriots' Day. Whatever you've done in training so far is done. Now is the time to back off, run just about enough to keep an edge, and heal up all the bumps, bruises, and sore spots you don't notice for all the endorphins. To the extent you have hurts that you *do* notice, getting them better is a top priority. In other words, I concur with the owner of your local running store.
Hill repeats? If you perceive any risk, don't do them. I did zero hill repeats training last year, and zero this year. I did run a lot of hills both training cycles. I paid particular attention to my form flowing down the steep hills smoothly with minimal impact to my legs. Based on my experience, that's a more important thing than training more uphill running. Then again, I'm noted as being one of the stronger uphill runners locally. I've had races where I pass guys going uphill and they pass me going downhill or on the flat.
And if you do end up having to walk part of the Newton hills, that's not the end of the world. If you can manage even a slow jog on Hereford Street and Boylston Street, nobody in Scream Tunnel is going to care that you were walking in Newton, just as they didn't care that I was walking on Commonwealth Avenue last year. You will be a rock star to the locals for finishing and getting that medal.
49 weeks after my first Boston, I come back to what my first pace leader and mentor told me in advance: The race starts at mile 16. Take the early part easy enough, and you'll be fine on the hills.9 -
3/28 - (5.5mi) 4mi hard effort around 90% I'd say. (7:33/mi) splits: 8:14, 7:06, 7:47, 7:07 Then 1.5mi cooldown @8:44/mi. Mtns tonight stay tuned! ** 42.9mi remain **
3/22 - (10.1mi) 5k TM hill tempo @ 3%inc, 7mi E
3/24 - (6mi) Slow/easy + heat tolerance, 8:40/mi
3/25 - (10mi) 3,074ft vert, 14:34/mi
3/26 - (13.6mi) LSD 8:49/mi
3/27 - (7.2mi) 2,162ft vert, 14:41/mi
3/28 - (5.5mi) 4mi @ 7:33, 1.5mi C @ 8:44
Total: 107.1/150mi
@KatieJane83 They're not that bad. Especially with these views of Vegas! Here's one from yesterday.
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Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!0
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I find Strava estimates calorie burn about 20% too high.jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!3 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I find Strava estimates calorie burn about 20% too high.jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!
Same2 -
Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.1 -
@jessicalferrara I agree with the others, Strava is at least 20% too high for running in my estimate, sometimes it even gives me 30% more than I would expect - depending on the amount of hills and the heart rate.
Usually, I use a really simple formula that works surprisingly well:
- "calories burned = (body weight in kg) * (running distance in km)"
If you use pound and miles, you get to similar results using (still not too complicated)
- "calories burned = 0.75 * (weight in pounds) * (running distance in miles)"3 -
@mobycarp great advice for @lporter229 it was interesting to read your take on hills.0
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@jessicalferrara I've had Strave claim DOUBLE the number of calories that Garmin on some runs. Strava isn't always double, but it is always higher than Garmin.
Garmin, OTOH, is usually wrong too, I think. I have the Forerunner 220 and on some of my long runs, it will give me 140 to 150 calories per mile in the earlier parts of the run, but with nearly identical pace, heart rate, and elevation, I'll only get credit for 85 to 90 calories per mile later in the run. I doubt my economy improves that much. If i don't use my HR monitor I'll get credit for 160 to 165 calories per mile. Hardly an exact science, apparently.
What I do now is to use this calculator to calculate my gross calorie burn:
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/activity-based-calorie-burn-calculator.aspx
Then take that result and plug it into this calculator to figure out the net calorie burn:
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn-conversion-calculator.shtml
Based on my weight I should get getting credit for 125 calories/mile.
There are a variety of calculators out there, giving me anywhere from 125 to 150 calories per mile. I trust this particular one because it's "based on MET (Metabolic Equivalent) data for physical activities from "The Compendium of Physical Activities Tracking Guide" by B. E. Ainsworth", which I take ask the authoritative source for this stuff.
The actual equations they use are on those two sites if you're interested in the nitty gritty.
Regardless of which source or calculator you use, if...after 4 weeks...you're not seeing the weight loss/gain/maintenance you think you should be, you can tweak the numbers. If I use 125 calories per mile but my weight is not going down like I'd like, I can do one of two things. Lower my calorie credit to 120 calories per pound, or review how I'm calculating my calorie intake and make sure I'm weighing everything, adding everything up, and not taking unlogged snacks (guilty).
Sorry for the long answer. I was going to try to be brief but my fingers just kept going.3 -
Thanks @MobyCarp . I knew I could count on you for a detailed and insightful perspective. Your post kind of solidifies what I already suspected. Like you, I am a pretty strong uphill runner, but I suffer on the downhills. My pace tends to be close to even running both up and down the same hill. Everything I have read has made me more concerned with the downhill running.
So, now I am wondering if maybe I should not scale back my 20 mile run this weekend. Physically, I feel like my legs are about 60-75%. My pace has naturally slowed by about 20-30 seconds per mile and I am feeling a bit more prone to fatigue than normal.
My training had been progressing fairly normally up to the middle of February, when I was hitting around 40-45 miles per week. I do not run crazy high mileage like some of you. My highest ever week was 59 miles and my highest mileage month was 205, both while training for my qualifier race in 2015. From October 2015-October 2016, my main focus was a faster half marathon. My weekly average was in the mid to high 30s, with long runs of 10-16 miles with two fairly intense targeted speed sessions. I started thinking toward Boston at the beginning of January. My goal at that point was to just run a sub 4 and make it as comfortable as possible with my training, and, of course, to remain injury free. I pretty much ditched most of my speed work and focused on ramping up my miles. Most of these miles were easy pace on rolling hilly terrain. The hamstring started to nag after a particularly hard effort 10K at the end of January (in hindsight, I was not prepared to run this at the pace I did). After my first 20 miler on Feb 11, I could no longer ignore the hamstring issue, so I backed off. I had two full weeks of rest while I entered into PT. While in treatment, I slowly ramped my mileage back up. Since Feb 11, my double digit runs have been one each of 10, 12 and 16 miles. My 16 miles was last weekend. It was harder than it should have been, but it did not kill me.
So my dilemma is for my long run this weekend. Part of me feels like I need to have another 20 miler in the bank for the mental aspect of it all. The other part of me feels like my body would benefit more from the rest. Do you have any opinion on this? I really value your input!0 -
@lporter229 what about running your 20 miles but at a slower pace than planned? That worked for me last weekend and I rather enjoyed allowing myself to be slower. In my case I went from an expected 9:30 to 10:30 pace.
Just a thought.3 -
@7Lenny7-I like that idea. I may be inclined to try it, but I will be going in with the knowledge that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to holding back on pace on a long run. I can hold back okay at the beginning, but when I get to that point when i just want to get done, I automatically speed up. Your suggestion would be good practice for race day!0
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lporter229 wrote: »@7Lenny7-I like that idea. I may be inclined to try it, but I will be going in with the knowledge that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to holding back on pace on a long run. I can hold back okay at the beginning, but when I get to that point when i just want to get done, I automatically speed up. Your suggestion would be good practice for race day!
I should have added, one thing I did on the run in question was to park my truck in the middle of the route (see below), which was essentially three out & backs (with spurs) and I was never more than 3.5 miles from my truck. Before the run I defined the conditions for which I would end the run. My original training plan was 30 miles, I felt the turn-around twinge at 21 miles (and turned around then further slowing my pace), and by the time I got back I had 23 miles.
Slower pace
Define the conditions for which you'll end the run
Stick to it
Have an exit strategy - you don't want to be 10 miles away and get that pain that tells you to quit.
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3/1 - 3.5 mi.
3/2 - 4.0 mi.
3/3 - 4.2 mi.
3/4 - 4.0 mi.
3/5 - 3.5 mi.
3/6 - 3.1 mi.
3/7 - 3.5 mi.
3/8 - 3.2 mi.
3/9 - rest
3/10 - 3.1 mi.
3/11 - 3.0 mi.
3/12 - 4.1 mi.
3/13 - 4.0 mi.
3/14 - 4.7 mi.
3/15 - 4.1 mi.
3/16 - rest
3/17 - 3.2 mi.
3/18 - 4.1 mi.
3/19 - 4.1 mi.
3/20 - 4.0 mi.
3/21 - rest
3/22 - 5.0 mi.
3/23 - 4.5 mi.
3/24 - crazy day...no time.
3/25 - 6.0 mi.
3/26 - 5.1 mi.
3/27 - 4.3
March total: 92.3/1003 -
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@7Lenny7- I like the way you think. I was thinking the same kind of thing. One of the areas around town where I generally do my long runs has tons of route options. I have done all of them enough times to have a rough idea of the distance between points X and points Y. I was thinking that if I head down to that area from my house (yes, starting off downhill), I can loop around the different segments of the area to create a route as I go. I can finish back up at my house, or call it a day at the Starbucks at the bottom of the hill and walk home with my iced coffee!
The only problem I see with this plan is that if I ditch a planned run short due to tiredness or pain, that's really going to screw with me mentally, whereas, if I go into the run knowing I am only going to do 10 or 12 miles, it won't be a big deal.0 -
jessicalferrara wrote: »Hey everyone, I'm curious to see what you think. I'm still in the process of losing weight, so I was curious to see what you think about the calories Strava says you burn during your run. Do you think they are somewhat accurate? Thanks!
I wish Strava was accurate!! It gives me HUGE calorie burns! My Garmin is much closer so I usually go by that unless my HRM malfunctioned in some way during the run.1 -
Can I just discipline myself to log miles here for 1 whole week???
WK: 3/27/17 - 4/2/17
M - 12 m. 9:55 pace.
T - 10 m. 9:33 pace.
W -
T -
F -
S -
S -
Total -
5
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