March 2017 Running Challenge
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lporter229 wrote: »6.1 miles while the young'un had soccer practice. Planned on 12 but a mix up on who was picking him up made me cut it short. I'll go long tomorrow. Strava says 6.5 because I forgot to stop my Garmin at the end of the run. I can't remember that happening before.
It was a warm, sweaty run. I had forgotten how much I love being drenched in sweat after a run.
188/210 miles
@lporter229 if you were to go short because you feared failing to go 20, wouldn't you then be worried during your race because you didn't get that 20 in?
Hence my dilemma. *sigh* I tried so hard for over a year to keep it from coming down to this situation. Word of advice for anyone planning to qualify for Boston...don't pick an early race!
@MobyCarp- Thanks for the advice. I am definitely taking it into consideration. Still a little undecided on what to do. I know I can run 20 miles if I need to. I know I can run 26 miles if I need to. I guess the fact that I've done it before helps.
If an example would help . . . my coach had Achilles tendinitis when I met him. He wasn't running a step. But he had a bucket list item of running Boston on the 50th anniversary of his first Boston. (That year is better known for being Katherine Switzer's first Boston.) So he rehabbed, and stretched, and ran what he could, and had a training cycle with a maximum long run of 14 miles . . . then BQ'd at the Niagara Mohawk Marathon last year. In 19 days, I won't have to worry about running instead of walking when I pass Coach. He will be somewhere behind me on the course, having started in Wave 4, Corral 1 at age 68.
The mental question of whether I can go 26 miles is definitely less troubling after I've already done it a couple of times. FWIW, the pacing assignments for Saturday are 11, 18, or 20 miles. My first-time marathon trainees, aiming at Buffalo, will be running 20. I'm about 90% sure I'll back off and only pace them the first 18. If I get in 7 easy miles today and complete tomorrow's 15 mile interval workout, that will rise to 100% sure that I'll stop at 18 because that would hit the weekly mileage target. Three weeks out is not the time to blow past that weekly target.
Non-runners and sprinters may be impressed by all the miles marathon runners do in training. When I was learning to be a distance runner, I was impressed with the experienced marathon runners' discipline. If they needed 15 miles, they quit at 15. Never mind that the rest of the group was running 16, there was a pleasant conversation, and they were easily capable of running another mile; they quit when they had enough miles.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/
Fascinating you should mention that. This is the 2nd time this week that someone has brought up that book in an online forum (the other being on a different site in a discussion group for type 1 diabetics. That discussion post was about being fat adapted / keto dieting for type 1 endurance athletes. It was in the back of my mind, now I almost have to look into it.
Didn't find time to reply earlier, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. 13.8 miles per day for 12 days is 165.6 miles in two weeks. Have you run 82 or 83 miles per week before? I've peaked out at 69 miles per week a year ago, and I think running 80 miles a week would risk injury for me. If you're coming from a 75 mile per week base, maybe not for you; but if you're coming from a 50 or 60 mile per week base, I'd be concerned.
FWIW, I just looked. I averaged 7.8 miles per running day in 2016 (which included some really short running days for rehab) and 9.86 miles per running day so far in 2017 (which is entirely in the pre-taper part of Boston training.) The numbers are lower if I include non-running days in the averages. It's possible you know what you're doing; but 13.8 miles per day for 12 consecutive days sounds awfully aggressive to me. If it were my decision, I'd say the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of fat loss.3 -
Thanks MFP friends, for your wise advice. I am pretty sure I would be giving the same advice to others if it weren't me receiving it. So on that note, I have decided to cut my long run down to 14-16 miles this weekend. I am going to head out in the afternoon and do my best to simulate race conditions. My main focus will be having an enjoyable, easy run which should give me the mental boost I need to head into this race. I have never gone into a race feeling this under prepared and I hate that. Maybe having a solid final long run will help with a little of that feeling. Either way, I know you are right and that this will be the best thing I can do to get me through Boston. That is why I love you guys!9
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midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »KatieJane83 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know Mar. is almost over, but trying to decide on a goal for Apr. I've already exceeded my Mar. goal of 60 miles. After the 4/1 race, my plan is to switch goals. Currently, my primary goal is to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to be able to complete that race and not be last (should not be a problem).
Starting 4/2, my primary goal is still to lose excess fat and secondary goal is to lose as much fat as possible before 4/14. The reason 4/14 is that is when I am scheduled for a Dexa, RMR, and VO2 Max. It's my first time getting such tests and I would like the BF % to be as close as possible to my goal BF %. It's a long and detailed explanation as to how I came up with this, but my estimate is that I need to run 13.8 miles per day from 4/2 - 4/13 in order to achieve that much fat loss that quickly (and also not to eat back those calories). That is way above current mileage, and would be about 2 hrs. per day. Alternatively, I could cut back calories and run 1 hr. per day.... that is a mileage that is more in line with where I've been on running days. The difference is not eating back exercise calories and doing something similar to alternate day fasting... and not taking a rest day during that time unless I make it up (which I can do on weekends).
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and making calculations for the last week to figure out mileage for the first half of April; and it looks pretty aggressive. The other option is to accept I won't be at my target BF % by 4/14... but how much to scale back on that goal is the unknown.
I noticed no one has replied to this yet, and I am far from an expert, but this is my $.02, for whatever it's actually worth, lol. I personally would NOT focus on such an aggressive loss. I am currently also in the weight-loss camp right now, and have actually been concerned by how quickly I've been losing because I want to maintain my lean body mass to a healthy degree. When you lose really aggressively you can't just flip a switch that makes sure the loss is 100% purely body fat. I already do weight training twice a week, and in addition to it being for injury prevention with my running, it is also to hopefully maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. When you lose too fast I think you risk losing too much of that lean body mass vs body fat. I say, keep it reasonable, take the first tests/scans for what they are, and then when you get them again you can use it as a comparison.
It's not really a 'switch' because it takes a long time to make the change (which I completed a long time ago), but I am fat adapted. So my primary source for skeletal muscle (and for exercise) is to oxidize fat. It's very different than the typical person who consumes a lot of carbohydrates and uses primarily glucose for energy. In those cases, protein (either dietary or muscle) will need to be broken down to create glucose and provide energy and replenish glycogen if the total diet is insufficient in carbohydrates and protein.
However, since I eat very low carb and the central nervous system / brain can't oxidize fat for energy (although it can use ketones), protein will need to be broken down to create glucose for brain function. I've done a fair amount of research and calculations to determine that I can spare muscle by consuming at least 157g / day of protein. I understand your point, but I think I've figured out how to minimize or prevent muscle loss and to cause my body to primarily use fat (dietary or stored) for energy. By limiting dietary fat intake in addition to having muscles that primarily oxidize fat for energy, I'm making those muscles have to turn to body fat. If I were to run for 2 hours at a sub-maximal exertion level, I should be able to oxidize 190g (0.42 lbs.) of fat (based on a Volek and Phinney study finding fat adapted endurance athletes oxidized fat at 1.58g/min +/-0.14 at sub-maximal exertion... 64% of max HR). That's just from exercise, not from RMR. If I consume only enough fat to reach my RMR (or slightly less), then I should be able to lose just over 5 lbs. between 4/2 - 4/13; which is about how much fat I'm estimating I need to lose. It's somewhat aggressive at just under 3 lbs. per week, but I believe it is possible.
What I am hoping is that I can lose enough between now and 4/2 to not require as much loss from 4/2 - 4/13. Potentially, I estimate that by 4/2, I could reduce the daily mileage to as low as 7.3 miles. And that is why I'm not sure what to make April's goal just yet. For those first 2 weeks, I will need somewhere between 7.3 and 13.8 miles per day in order to achieve my fat use goal. I may not make my April goal until 4/2 because of that unknown.
Ah, very interesting, and yes, that definitely changes what kind of advice you would get. That is important information.
And it also reminded me that my friend shared a podcast with me the other day, with an author talking about the whole concept of training your body to recruit fat for energy, and how you can change the whole idea of needing to carbo-load before long races and such. I need to go figure out who it was who was talking so I can do some more research, lol.
ETA: Found it! The book is Primal Endurance by Mark Sisson. This was the podcast: artofmanliness.com/2016/06/06/podcast-207-primal-endurance-how-to-become-a-fat-burning-beast/
Fascinating you should mention that. This is the 2nd time this week that someone has brought up that book in an online forum (the other being on a different site in a discussion group for type 1 diabetics. That discussion post was about being fat adapted / keto dieting for type 1 endurance athletes. It was in the back of my mind, now I almost have to look into it.
Didn't find time to reply earlier, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. 13.8 miles per day for 12 days is 165.6 miles in two weeks. Have you run 82 or 83 miles per week before? I've peaked out at 69 miles per week a year ago, and I think running 80 miles a week would risk injury for me. If you're coming from a 75 mile per week base, maybe not for you; but if you're coming from a 50 or 60 mile per week base, I'd be concerned.
FWIW, I just looked. I averaged 7.8 miles per running day in 2016 (which included some really short running days for rehab) and 9.86 miles per running day so far in 2017 (which is entirely in the pre-taper part of Boston training.) The numbers are lower if I include non-running days in the averages. It's possible you know what you're doing; but 13.8 miles per day for 12 consecutive days sounds awfully aggressive to me. If it were my decision, I'd say the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of fat loss.
Yes, the mileage is extremely aggressive for where I am at this point. That's the concern. Trying to figure out a way around having to do that.0 -
@BeeerRunner loved the race report! Such a badass!2
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3/1 - 5 miles
3/2 - 8 miles
3/3 - 16 miles
3/5 - 7 miles
3/6 - 6.5 miles
3/7 - 6.5 miles
3/8 - 5 miles
3/9 - 6 miles
3/10 - 13.4 miles
3/12 - 6 miles
3/13 - 8 miles
3/14 - 6 miles
3/15 - 10 miles
3/16 - 6 miles
3/19 - 13.1 miles
3/20 - 5 miles
3/21 - 7 miles
3/22 - 8 miles
3/23 - 7 miles
3/24 - 3.5 miles
3/29 - 6 miles
I took some rest days, there. I will not be achieving my goal this month.
I did something to my right hip - I thought it was a running injury, but I'm more convinced, now, that I did something to it at work. It's feeling a little better.
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.8 -
LOVE IT!!autumnblade75 wrote: »My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
Besides the issue of running in it, there's the issue of how/where you attach the bib.
Maybe just run the last 100 meters in it? Change into it just before the finish line for an epic photo finish?0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
LOVE IT!!autumnblade75 wrote: »My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
Besides the issue of running in it, there's the issue of how/where you attach the bib.
Maybe just run the last 100 meters in it? Change into it just before the finish line for an epic photo finish?
Oh, I already have a solution for where to pin a bib. I think the T-rex needs to wear a nice big tank top. (Not that I think the safety pins would cause too much of a problem. Might want to reinforce the plastic where they sit, but the zipper is sewn in - so...)
For longer races, the hydration pack should fit in there with me, nicely. But I'll need a way to keep the bite valve near my face.2 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
How awesome is that?!? If anything, maybe you can do a Halloween 5K in it?
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BeeerRunner wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »
My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
How awesome is that?!? If anything, maybe you can do a Halloween 5K in it?
If I don't use it before then, I will definitely make that a priority.3 -
@_nikkiwolf_ @WhatMeRunning Thanks! I kinda decided today on an additional mini goal for this week. 15,000ft vert. Will be an all time PR. I remember slamming vertical hard last year before running 1:37 at San Diego HM. Hopefully I get similar results next month! I'm dying to go sub 90min. But it might be a little bit away.6
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lporter229 wrote: »Thanks MFP friends, for your wise advice. I am pretty sure I would be giving the same advice to others if it weren't me receiving it. So on that note, I have decided to cut my long run down to 14-16 miles this weekend. I am going to head out in the afternoon and do my best to simulate race conditions. My main focus will be having an enjoyable, easy run which should give me the mental boost I need to head into this race. I have never gone into a race feeling this under prepared and I hate that. Maybe having a solid final long run will help with a little of that feeling. Either way, I know you are right and that this will be the best thing I can do to get me through Boston. That is why I love you guys!
Yeah, the rest of us are stupider for ourselves than for other runners too. Enjoy your run, and bask in the glow of overcoming a potential bad decision!4 -
Just reread all the posts I missed while I was away. I really missed this place, but I had to stay away, the jealousy of seeing others run was real..... and I had to get well before attempting to run again. Thanks all for helping make running great.10
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Good to see you back. And I understand. I was not healing my foot well last year because I kept coming back either too much or too soon (probably both) partly from the temptations of keeping up here with everyone which made me want to run also. Quitting cold turkey can definitely help. Truth be told, I was all to blame, but limiting external influences did help keep my own impulses down a bit. I switched my focus to making microcontroller/IOT thingies for a while, which consumed enough attention to heal (and maybe even a little more time than necessary).MNLittleFinn wrote: »Just reread all the posts I missed while I was away. I really missed this place, but I had to stay away, the jealousy of seeing others run was real..... and I had to get well before attempting to run again. Thanks all for helping make running great.2 -
@beeerrunner holy *kitten* I just read your race report I completely forgot you fell. Super job in spite of it and definitely a badass picture.
@autumnblade75 gotta see a picture in the suit2 -
Didn't find time to reply earlier, but I'm going to approach this from a different angle. 13.8 miles per day for 12 days is 165.6 miles in two weeks. Have you run 82 or 83 miles per week before? I've peaked out at 69 miles per week a year ago, and I think running 80 miles a week would risk injury for me. If you're coming from a 75 mile per week base, maybe not for you; but if you're coming from a 50 or 60 mile per week base, I'd be concerned.
FWIW, I just looked. I averaged 7.8 miles per running day in 2016 (which included some really short running days for rehab) and 9.86 miles per running day so far in 2017 (which is entirely in the pre-taper part of Boston training.) The numbers are lower if I include non-running days in the averages. It's possible you know what you're doing; but 13.8 miles per day for 12 consecutive days sounds awfully aggressive to me. If it were my decision, I'd say the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of fat loss.
Yeah, I hadn't even really contemplated this angle of it. For this reason alone, such an aggressive increase in mileage, I would not go this route. I've dealt with the 'got over-ambitious and did too much' injury, as I'm sure many of us have, and it is not fun. You would be kicking yourself if you ended up injuring yourself due to this, I'm sure.lporter229 wrote: »Thanks MFP friends, for your wise advice. I am pretty sure I would be giving the same advice to others if it weren't me receiving it. So on that note, I have decided to cut my long run down to 14-16 miles this weekend. I am going to head out in the afternoon and do my best to simulate race conditions. My main focus will be having an enjoyable, easy run which should give me the mental boost I need to head into this race. I have never gone into a race feeling this under prepared and I hate that. Maybe having a solid final long run will help with a little of that feeling. Either way, I know you are right and that this will be the best thing I can do to get me through Boston. That is why I love you guys!
Yeah, the rest of us are stupider for ourselves than for other runners too.
I'm pretty sure this is part of the definition of being a runner.autumnblade75 wrote: »My husband bought me an inflatable T-Rex costume for running races in. I'm torn - I think I'd get better race photos, but I still want to PR, too... I have not yet tested running in it.
Everything about this is awesome. Whenever you use it you better post some pics!1 -
That race report is incredible @BeeerRunner! Your first marathon experience seemed very familiar with the drifting back around mile 16 and the cardio not going up from being unable to move fast enough to make things go up any more! That is until those *kitten* railroad tracks! Those *kitten*! I honestly can't imagine having it in me to get up on the LAST MILE of my FIRST FULL after a fall like that. Then again, by that point you are running on fumes so are giving it your all, but still. INCREDIBLE!
You win the Badass of the Month award for that one!5 -
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Ok, kind of a weird question, but does anyone know of a teeny tiny Phillips-head screwdriver that fits the microscopically-sized screws in a Garmin heart rate transmitter? The kind that snaps onto the chest strap? I need to replace the battery but I can't get into the *kitten* battery compartment!
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I just realized that there's only 2 more days left in the month! This will be my lowest mileage month since I started tracking a year ago. Here's hoping next month is better!0
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