March 2017 Running Challenge

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  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @Stoshew71 @girlinahat alright, alright....LOL, I'll start just running slow miles..... I swear, teachers are the worst learners. It really only changes 1 run a week by cutting the speed and making them slow miles.... I'll save the fast running for different training for shorter races

    The other thing you're fighting is, most runners (including me) are stupider for themselves than they are for other runners.

    Yup. if I could only practice what I preach I may be an even better runner. LOL

    Ditto. I often feel like I am coming across as preachy, but that is never my intent. I am just trying to keep other runners from making the same mistakes I did. Sometimes I think you only truly learn the value of good advice by not heeding it!
  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    dpwellman wrote: »
    Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.

    I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.

    ...

    Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...

    Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
    Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
    The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
    Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
    Bunch more issues.

    So I wonder what happened the last time I went out for a 10 miles run but didn't quite get there. I felt like my body just gave up around mile 4. I had some fuel (sport beans) and was able to make it back home, but barely. Since I was not marathon training, and had only been running about 40 minutes at the time, I have to wonder what was going on with me. I *was* going too fast during that run, I know that, because it was my first time out on the Path with tons of people to dodge and I was speeding up a lot to pass walkers. So it was probably a case of just going too fast for what my body wanted to handle.

    So if you are not used to running longer distance.... and to clarify what I mean by relying too much on carbs using geeky science. So in order to use fats for fuel, your brain needs to tell your body to release certain enzymes in your body to release the fat in your body in the form of fatty acids into your blood stream. If you're not used to this, your body doesn't produce enough of those enzymes. If you run out of those enzymes in your run, you may feel something similar to bonking, but it isn't quite bonking. Keeping at it will teach your body to produce more of those enzymes.

    If you ran too fast in the beginning, you could have went faster than LT which for 40 minutes will cause the H+ issues I described. But in addition, when you run faster than your LT, you are forcing your body to use carbs. In order to use fat for fuel, not only do you need the enzymes to release fatty acids into your blood, you need enough oxygen (which means stronger heart, more hemoglobin in your blood to carry that oxygen, more capillaries in your muscles to deliver that blood to your muscles, and more mitochondria in your muscles to actually use fat and oxygen to remake ATP. You can make ATP without oxygen using carbs, but you cannot make ATP from fat unless that muscle cell has enough oxygen. Run too fast and you force your body to rely more on carbs.

    So, what you may have been experiencing is that you scared your brain into thinking it is going to run out of carbs at the pace you were running, it wanted to make the switch to fats, but your cardio system (mitochondria/capillaries/hemoglobin) is underdeveloped. So instead of switching to fats for fuel for a trained runner, your brain decided to just shut everything down.

    Again, this will all change in time when your body becomes more developed.

    Ah, this is very good to know. I just need to keep at it with working on distance and my body will eventually go along with it. Thanks!
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    girlinahat wrote: »
    @Stoshew71 (can I call you God?) thank you SO much for what you wrote there. Really really helpful.

    I have been reading around low carb/fat adaption, and don't really want to go into a low carb lifestyle, but I can certainly engineer my life to fast before training and then bring carbs in when they're needed. (I'm assuming this is what is meant by train low race high?)

    So what you are suggesting works well is to train fasted or at least low on carbs, then in races introduce carbs for the boost? Do you have any good reading material you can point to on this (I'm a sucker for a technical book.)?

    NO! You may not call me God, because that may make my God and JC jealous. You are more than welcome to thank Him.

    OK, clarify on train low race high.
    "So what you are suggesting works well is to train fasted or at least low on carbs, then in races introduce carbs for the boost?"

    Partially true. There is a diminishing cost effect for training low for too long. What I mean by this is that if you train too low too many times, the benefits of doing so will outweight the benefits of training high for some runs.

    The process is more efficient at using carbs to remake ATP than a similar process to use fat to remake ATP. So if you train in a "glycogen depleted state" and the benefits of doing so no longer gives you the expected result, then you are training too slow. Introducing runs in a fully fueled state will then allow you to train at higher paces which is good for obvious reasons.

    Another thing you will want to do in the later stages of your marathon training is practice your refuel techniques. First this means, what will give you the most energy on your run that agrees with your stomach. You will want to try as many things as you can. This could be Gu one day. Another day you may want to try a different brand of gel. You may want to try Gatorade. Then try PowerAde another day. Maybe different flavors of gels or sports drinks. Maybe you will want to try beans or homemade gels. Different options to refuel. You will want to not only use using that agrees with your stomach, but how are you going to carry this on your run. Gels require water, so that means eat a Gu packet when you reach an aid station. That aid station will hand you a cup of water. You will need to practice drinking a Dixie cup of water while holding a gel in your other hand and while running (unless you plan to stop to drink water at an aid station). There are actually different techniques in doing this by the way. For example, as you grab the Dixie cup, you make a fold with the hand you are holding it with and allow the water to fall in your mouth through that fold.

    YES! This can become complicated training. A little more complicated than putting left foot in front of right front in front of left foot repeat and repeat and repeat and breath at the same time. LOL

    here is a good read on this:

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/cience-of-bonking-and-glycogen-depletion/


  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
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    MobyCarp wrote: »
    The other thing you're fighting is, most runners (including me) are stupider for themselves than they are for other runners.
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    Yup. if I could only practice what I preach I may be an even better runner. LOL
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Ditto. I often feel like I am coming across as preachy, but that is never my intent. I am just trying to keep other runners from making the same mistakes I did. Sometimes I think you only truly learn the value of good advice by not heeding it!

    Coming from you 3, that means a lot. I have gained so much knowledge from you all that it's amazing...If only IK was good at applying it....
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    So instead of switching to fats for fuel for a trained runner, your brain decided to just shut everything down.

    Again, this will all change in time when your body becomes more developed.

    I need to clarify this. Your body just doesn't stop using carbs for fuel and start using fat. Your body is constantly using both fat and carbs all the time, but just at different ratios. Maybe right now it is using mostly carbs but some fat. But other times it is using more fat than it is carbs.

    When you are sleeping for 8 hours, your body experiences this. When you first fall asleep, your body will use more carbs than fat. But as you get more into your sleep, (because you're not eating anything) and your body starts to use up some of the glycogen you have stored in your liver, your brain will start telling your body to use a higher ratio of fat for fuel.

    By the way, your brain relies mostly on carbs. Only in extreme cases can your brain turn fatty acids into something called ketones in replacement of glucose. But that is under extreme low carb periods of time. Something that low carb diets are used for. You may have heard of the Keto Diet?

    But I wanted to clarify that your body just doesn't switch between fat and carbs like 100%. It slowly favors one over the other depending on what is going in your body.



  • Bakins929
    Bakins929 Posts: 896 Member
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    March goal: 45 miles
    exercise.png
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
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    @ariceroni -Welcome back!! :)
  • mellecita
    mellecita Posts: 6,189 Member
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    I'm just getting back into after taking some time off. I'm in for 25 miles.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    edited March 2017
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    lporter229 wrote: »
    @ariceroni -Welcome back!! :)

    Yes, we missed you, and some others.

    BTW, anyone know what happened to @kristinegift ??? She seemed to drop off last month.

  • ddmom0811
    ddmom0811 Posts: 1,878 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    @ariceroni -Welcome back!! :)

    Yes, we missed you, and some others.

    BTW, anyone know what happened to @kristinegift ??? She seemed to drop off last month.

    I was wondering about her the other day myself.
    She is still running on Strava so probably just got too busy.
  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    edited March 2017
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    Hello

    Being modest and shy at start so:

    Aim: 120k

    3/2: 1.5k

    SUM: 1.5/100k -warmup for strenght training-

    Races:
    12/3: 10k Kavala Trail
    19/3: 10k Rapsani Trail

    Stay free of injuries!
  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,660 Member
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    exercise.png

    3/1 - 5 miles
    3/2 - 8 miles

    While we're all talking marathons, and pacing, and running too fast: I have to confess that I also run my "easy" runs too fast. I made more of an effort today to keep it slow - what my Fitbit calls "cardio" instead of "peak." I only managed to keep it down for the first 3 miles or so. Then I picked it up for the next 2 miles - for a heartrate about 15 bpm above the cardio/peak cutoff, so that I'd average an even 11 minute mile. But once I had "caught up" I slowed it back down a little, and finished at about 5 bpm above the cutoff. I should get me one of them fancy running watches, or something - but as long as I'm on the 'mill, it seems reasonable to watch the numbers on the display and on my phone.

    I was going to do tomorrow's long run today, so I could have a pizza for dinner. But someone called me at around mile 7.5 and made Zombies, Run! pause and then didn't even leave a message. Totally screwed up my mojo. I didn't recognize the number, so I didn't answer. Turns out I have enough calories for the pizza, anyway. So there. :tongue:
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    @ariceroni -Welcome back!! :)

    Yes, we missed you, and some others.

    BTW, anyone know what happened to @kristinegift ??? She seemed to drop off last month.

    @kristinegift has runs on Strava through February 28, so I'd guess she got busy and the MFP forum didn't make the cut for her free time.
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
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    lporter229 wrote: »
    So, speaking of "bonking" and "hitting the wall", if you've never seen this video...

    https://youtu.be/3iWI72c42gc

    I've seen it a hundred times and it still gets me choked up.

    I remember seeing this years ago and just crying about getting so close but so far.
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
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    ariceroni wrote: »
    Training For:
    03/19: Excalibur 10 Miler (Viera, FL)
    04/23: Ravenswood Run, 5K (Chicago)
    05/21: Chicago Spring Half Marathon
    10/08: Chicago Marathon
    11/26: Space Coast Half Marathon (Cocoa, FL)

    @ariceroni I just saw you'll be at the Spring Half Marathon in Chicago. Me too!! My employer is based up there and I'll be coming up for work that week. They are paying the entrance fees for employees who want to participate in the race so I'm all signed up. Maybe I'll see you there!
  • dpwellman
    dpwellman Posts: 3,271 Member
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    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    Got a question:

    This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?

    My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.

    Yeah I tried that. It didn't really give me anything I could use. Maybe I didn't use the right terms.
    Found one in Emden Aug 19. And one in Milwaukee
    http://www.chw.org/giving-and-volunteers/events-supporting-chw/briggs-and-als-run/
  • showjumper
    showjumper Posts: 335 Member
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    exercise.png




    March 1 2.13 miles


    Total 2.13/37.87 miles

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