Humans are not designed to drink cows milk

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  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
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    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
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    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    While I appreciate what animal rights activists are trying to do, because there ARE terrible practises out there for the rearing of animals, the solution that they propose - stop drinking or eating animal products altogether, isn't practical or realistic. Instead of just 'reducing the demand for animal products by not buying them', a more effective solution would be to INCREASE the demand for animal products from animals that have been reared in safe and comfortable conditions.
  • Yogi_Carl
    Yogi_Carl Posts: 1,906 Member
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    "While I appreciate what animal rights activists are trying to do, because there ARE terrible practises out there for the rearing of animals, the solution that they propose - stop drinking or eating animal products altogether, isn't practical or realistic. Instead of just 'reducing the demand for animal products by not buying them', a more effective solution would be to INCREASE the demand for animal products from animals that have been reared in safe and comfortable conditions. "

    agreed - a step in the right direction. I doubt there is a meat or dairy consumer here who really deep down wouldn't care about the welfare of farm animals if they were faced with it.

    The problem is that many of us are so urbanised that we have become separated from the realitiy of where our food comes from and the ethical and environmental implications of it's production from seed to shelf; flesh and plant foods alike.
  • rosellasweet
    rosellasweet Posts: 163 Member
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    Also, I don't think the lactation process differs greatly between species of mammals. Pregnancy stimulates the hormones necessary to begin lactation (esp oxytocin which generates "milk-letdown"), but once lactation begins, it is the continual stimulation of the breast (or teat for bovine) that continues the milk production - not pregnancy.

    Very true! This is how wet nurses can still breastfeed as well as attachment-happy parents that are breast-feeding their kid until their 3. If you don't use it, you lose it.
  • rosellasweet
    rosellasweet Posts: 163 Member
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    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Options
    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.

    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.
  • Yogi_Carl
    Yogi_Carl Posts: 1,906 Member
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    This anger is not helping the debate.

    I hope other folks don't think all vegans are as angry as this. Change starts with agreement; not conflict.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
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    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
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    This anger is not helping the debate.

    I hope other folks don't think all vegans are as angry as this. Change starts with agreement; not conflict.

    I'm not vegan at all. But I don't stand for cruel practices towards animals.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Options
    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.

    So you would not trust the Salvation Army or Red cross either? They make a lot of money. So does World Vision.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
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    Anyway I give up trying. I need a brick wall to bang my head against....it would be easier.
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
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    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.

    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    I am sorry but this does NOT happen in Australia. The industry is very tightly controlled (by my husband among others who works in the animal health industry) and if a dairy farm fails to meet welfare standards here the RSPCA is down on them like a ton of bricks. There are occasionally situations when a farm needs to destroy calves because of feed issues but this is rare and only happens when the cost of raising them for beef is to high. Slaughter is not a welfare issue, and you can check this with the RSPCA who are a more reliable source than those you quote.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
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    You have the the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now?

    Where to start on PETA's list of lies........

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?cat=10

    http://commonconstitutionalist.com/political-stuff/newsflash-peta-lies/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/douglas-anthony-cooper/peta-animals-kill_b_1417663.html

    http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

    http://www.animalscam.com/

    milk and autism??

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=5923337&page=1

    and the list goes on, and on, and on......PETA is one of the least credible organizations in the world (they're as bad as big tobacco, just a different agenda)
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Options
    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.

    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    I am sorry but this does NOT happen in Australia. The industry is very tightly controlled (by my husband among others who works in the animal health industry) and if a dairy farm fails to meet welfare standards here the RSPCA is down on them like a ton of bricks. There are occasionally situations when a farm needs to destroy calves because of feed issues but this is rare and only happens when the cost of raising them for beef is to high. Slaughter is not a welfare issue, and you can check this with the RSPCA who are a more reliable source than those you quote.


    HAHAHA RSPCA? Are you serious? The same people who ...nah. Forget it. It DOES happen here. RSPCA indeed.


    Wait you said RSPCA

    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
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    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
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    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.

    So you would not trust the Salvation Army or Red cross either? They make a lot of money. So does World Vision.

    Why is it that when the dairy industry has money to make they will lie about their practises but if other organisations have money to make they are not liars?

    This is your own logic.

    I don't trust PETA for a lot of reasons. I bought up the money aspect because you did first.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Options
    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. <b>Otherwise there goes their $$$. </b>

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.

    So you would not trust the Salvation Army or Red cross either? They make a lot of money. So does World Vision.

    Why is it that when the dairy industry has money to make they will lie about their practises but if other organisations have money to make they are not liars?

    This is your own logic.

    I don't trust PETA for a lot of reasons. I bought up the money aspect because you did first.

    Sorry but I just quoted the RSPCA... THEY are a reliable source.... there is a branch of that in the USA as well I assume? Right there they talk about the boy (bobby) calves & them being slaughtered at 5 days of age.

    All the proof needed.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Funny how the UK RSPCA never makes a big issue of OUR dairy industry either, and they do have basic police powers. But then, a drive down a motorway here and you will see cows in big fields everywhere.

    Edit; as far as I can see, there is no RSPCA in the US. Makes sense since y'all rejected the monarchy and it stands for Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
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    What happens to bobby calves?

    For cows to produce milk, they have to give birth to a calf every year. Most calves are separated from the cows within twelve hours of birth to reduce the risk of disease, and most do not stay on the farm for long.

    The term ‘bobby calves’ means newborn calves that are less than two weeks old and not with their mothers. Essentially, they are surplus to dairy industry requirements as they are not required for the milking herd. This applies to almost all bull calves (males) and around three quarters of heifer calves (females). Some bull calves will be reared for veal production and about one quarter of the heifers will become replacements for adult milk-producing cows.

    Bobby calves are housed together and fed colostrum, milk or milk replacer, usually only once a day. They are then sold, mostly for slaughter, at five days old. Products from processed calves include young veal for human consumption, valuable hides for leather and byproducts for the pharmaceutical industry.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal. For their health and welfare, bobby calves should be fed twice a day and be housed in sheltered, clean and dry environments with room to lie down on suitable bedding.

    Transport requirements for bobby calves state that they must be at least five days old before they can be transported to the abattoir. Dairy farmers sign a National Vendor Declaration stating this is true and that each calf is fit for transport. Bobby calves may go straight to slaughter or to a calf sale and then to the abattoir. The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.

    Because they are so young, bobby calves have the following specific animal welfare issues when they are being transported to slaughter:

    Like all young animals, they have underdeveloped ‘following’ behaviour, which means that they do not stay together as a group and move to where they are supposed to go. This makes moving and loading/unloading difficult and can lead to rough handling.
    They are too young to handle the stress, motion and length of transport.
    During transport and at calf sales, they are exposed to the elements, are not provided with bedding and often have little room to lie down.
    They are too young to be without milk for extended times.

    In addition, as it is difficult to accurately judge a calf’s age, calves may sometimes be transported when they are younger than five days old.

    For these reasons, the RSPCA believes bobby calves should be at least 10 days old and be fed at least four hours before being transported. Further, transport to the abattoir should be for less than 10 hours and in trucks that have protection from the elements, bedding and enough room for all calves to lie down.

    Calves should be handled humanely at all times so they do not become injured or distressed. This means no rough handling, prodding, use of dogs or electric prodders.


    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
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    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

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