If lifting is the way to get that 'toned' look, then why...?
Replies
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Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?0 -
Don't forget, you can't weigh more either. Do a live weigh in when you start and a live weigh in 6 months.Traveler120 wrote: »BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
So do it. Come back in 6 month and post results.
Yeah, I think that would be a fun project. With before and after DEXAs and photos. Challenge accepted.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, that was the original assumption that weight remains the same or less but not more. What is a live weigh in? Doesn't the weight shown on the before and after DEXAs serve that purpose?0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.4 -
Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
So....you're going to eat a surplus even though your contention was otherwise?3 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
But she would have to have optimal genetics and would also gain fat because in order to see those results whe'd have to eat in a surplus. To see what she's truly built she'd have to cut. And just how much of a visible difference 5.5lbs makes is going to vary depending on height.
People are forgetting the original question - A 110 lb woman at 20% body fat to the same 110 lb woman at 15 % in under 6 months. And if we use the BuiltLean chart above as a visual, I'm not seeing why everyone thinks it's a years long project to go from #3 to #2.
Because she's lean, the fat gain would have to be lost after the bulking period to get back down to a body fat percentage that shows those gains. Losing 5lbs when that small will take a few months. 6 months training + a few months cutting. If optimal.
You're thoroughly misguided if you think you MUST go through a bulk and cut cycle to change your body. And you've yet to give a rationale for disputing the numbers given in the article.
I assure you she doesn't think that.
What she does think is that if this hypothetical woman has a prayer of putting on 1lb of muscle per month, she has to bulk. If she bulks, in order to get back down to 15%BF, she'll obviously have to cut.
Recomp is a thing. It's just a very, very slow process.
Yes, it's a slow process, just like the article said. 1 lb/month coz she's a noob and is training hard. It will take her six long months to gain those 5.5 lbs. And if she loses 5.5 lbs of fat in the process, boom 15%.
Know how we know you've never actually tried to do this yourself?7 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
You do realize you aren't going to gain pure muscle right?2 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
So....bulking. Is 125 calories over maintenance NOT a surplus?1 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
But she would have to have optimal genetics and would also gain fat because in order to see those results whe'd have to eat in a surplus. To see what she's truly built she'd have to cut. And just how much of a visible difference 5.5lbs makes is going to vary depending on height.
People are forgetting the original question - A 110 lb woman at 20% body fat to the same 110 lb woman at 15 % in under 6 months. And if we use the BuiltLean chart above as a visual, I'm not seeing why everyone thinks it's a years long project to go from #3 to #2.
Because she's lean, the fat gain would have to be lost after the bulking period to get back down to a body fat percentage that shows those gains. Losing 5lbs when that small will take a few months. 6 months training + a few months cutting. If optimal.
You're thoroughly misguided if you think you MUST go through a bulk and cut cycle to change your body. And you've yet to give a rationale for disputing the numbers given in the article.
I assure you she doesn't think that.
What she does think is that if this hypothetical woman has a prayer of putting on 1lb of muscle per month, she has to bulk. If she bulks, in order to get back down to 15%BF, she'll obviously have to cut.
Recomp is a thing. It's just a very, very slow process.
Yes, it's a slow process, just like the article said. 1 lb/month coz she's a noob and is training hard. It will take her six long months to gain those 5.5 lbs. And if she loses 5.5 lbs of fat in the process, boom 15%.
Know how we know you've never actually tried to do this yourself?
Yeah, I'm about to find out though....so help me muscle gods!0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
Eating in a surplus is bulking.
I eagerly await your September update.1 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
So....bulking. Is 125 calories over maintenance NOT a surplus?
In my head, bulking is getting fat, so you can get thin again, so you can get fat again, and then thin again, at the end of which, you end up gaining x lbs of muscle. I'm struggling to see how 125 calories which is 1lb/month is a bulk! It's a surplus though. A surprisingly minuscule surplus. But I'm not mad at it. I'd have panicked a little if I was supposed to eat hundreds more. That would be a proper bulk...mostly made of fat.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
Bulking is eating in surplus.. even if it's a small surplus. I have been since September gaining 1lb per month (so pretty much what you are about to do). While my fat gains have been minimal (at least by looking at me) they are there. Have fun though! Bulking is a wild ride0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
So....bulking. Is 125 calories over maintenance NOT a surplus?
In my head, bulking is getting fat, so you can get thin again, so you can get fat again, and then thin again, at the end of which, you end up gaining x lbs of muscle. I'm struggling to see how 125 calories which is 1lb/month is a bulk! It's a surplus though. A surprisingly minuscule surplus. But I'm not mad at it. I'd have panicked a little if I was supposed to eat hundreds more. That would be a proper bulk...mostly made of fat.
Semantics. It's a bulk in the bodybuilding/lifting world. Though not a very efficient one.
You're still going to gain fat. And maybe not very much muscle at all since the calorie increase is so little. Also, you don't gain a crap ton of fat on a 250 cal surplus either, and would probably have better luck gaining muscle.
I did a 250 cal surplus for about 5 months. I feel lucky if I gained 3-4 lbs of muscle.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.0 -
Must be said, the absolute certainty is to be somewhat admired. The IDGAF what all you super experienced female lifters and personal trainers with experience of recomp and bulking say I'm going to prove all of you wrong.
I too look forward to September.4 -
Traveler120 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Nutrition factors in as well though. Someone on a 1000 calorie deficit ISN'T going to add that in 6 months with the possible exceptions of being obese or a returning athlete after a long layoff.Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »No way. That kind of physique takes a lot of focused hard work over a long time. She has a really good muscle base.
This article addresses how long it takes to build muscle.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/Traveler120 wrote: »
Are you referring to the girl on the right? Why would it take years? She's said to be 5'2" and 110 lbs. If someone is starting at the exact same weight and height and say with low body fat but not as "toned", what would be a realistic time frame to look like the image above, assuming a proper training program? Surely, 3-6 months no?I suppose I could give it a try, I'm just afraid of not getting the look i want. I mean if that were to happen how do you go back from there? Also what if I finally get to the point where I have some muscle but not too much--how would I just maintain that without gaining more muscle??
If it was that easy to get huge/jacked, there would be a LOT more huge/jacked guys walking around. And guys have a lot more testosterone than women do.
You're not going to "accidentally" get too muscular. Even people who are trying to do it on purpose have to fight like hell for every ounce they gain, and it takes years to build those physiques.
3-6 months? To build that physique?
Nah. That's not going to happen. Not without elite genetics and a lot of "supplementation" (i.e. anabolic steroids).
But that clearly illustrates the kind of unrealistic expectations a lot of people have.
Really? Then tell me what's realistic. We're talking going from 110 lbs to 110 lbs. On T-Nation, she (Jamie Eason) said she's 110 and ~15% body fat off-season (like on the picture). So if a woman is starting at a flat/soft, un-toned 20%, the difference in body fat is 16.5 vs 22 lbs. She only needs to lose 5.5 lbs of body fat and gain the same in muscle to maintain weight. And that can't be accomplished in under 6 months? I don't see why not, especially if she's not previously lifted before. Even going by @jemhh's link above, it adds up, if we use the 1 lb/month.
The 1 lbs a month is with a calorie surplus and perfect training. You won't gain 5.5 lbs of muscle in less than 5 months in a recomp especially if you are lean to begin with.
Well, then you missed this part of the article:
"One simple fact of training is that everything comes MUCH quicker and MUCH faster when you’re a beginner. That’s why weight training newbies will often consistently build muscle at the high end of average rate, and possibly even exceed it at certain points. However, the more experienced you get and the more muscle you build, the slower your rate of muscle gain will become."
Are you relying just on that article for your information? There are real-life women who lift in this thread who are telling you that you cannot go from an untrained 110 pounds to the picture on the right in six months.
The article was posted to show me what the realistic expectations are for muscle growth, which is what I'd asked for. It only ended up proving what I was saying, that yes, the 110 lb woman can gain the 5.5 lbs of muscle and maybe slightly more in those 6 months if she's a complete noob and is training perfectly.
It's a good article and in line with what I've read elsewhere, but you're welcome to post other links that challenge those estimates they've given.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yes, agreed. In the case of the small woman though, they would never need such a deficit for any reason. I'd expect they'd be as close to maintenance as possible right?
So what's your plan for dropping 5.5lbs fat and adding 5.5lbs muscle in the next 6 months? How much and what are you going to eat and what sort of lifting routine? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Hmm..good questions. I'll keep going with the advice from @jemhh's link since that's what got us down this road.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
How much and what to eat? - My current maintenance is 1700-1900 (I'm ~120 lbs, 5' 4.5")
- http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/the-best-muscle-building-diet-plan/
Calories: "Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day."
Protein: "For women with the primary goal of building muscle, it’s 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight." (I'll do 0.8)
Fat: The ideal daily fat intake is between 20-30% of your total calorie intake, with an even 25% probably being pretty perfect in most cases. (I stay at my current 15% coz high fat raises my cholesterol)
Carbs: The ideal daily carb intake is simply whatever is left after an ideal protein and fat intake have been factored in. The majority of this carb intake should typically come from unprocessed nutrient-rich sources (rice, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, oats, whole grains, etc.). Highly refined junk should be limited to some extent. (~60-65%, works for me, coz it's not that different from what I do now)
Weight Training Routine - 4x/week. No gym so I'll be using bodyweight/calisthenics, dumbells, TRX, pullup bar. Will figure out bodyweight exercise equivalents of their routines.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/free-weight-exercises-vs-body-weight-exercises-vs-machines/
Cardio - Most days. Hiking, cycling, walking, elliptical, beachbody programs etc.
Yup, that's the plan. That should do it.
Wait. You said a surplus wasn't necessary but now you are going to eat at a surplus and thus gain weight along with muscle. This is in complete opposition to your assertion that you can recomp your 5lbs of muscle in 6 months.
I believe I said bulking wasn't necessary in response to someone going on about how I'll need to go on bulk and cut cycles to gain 1lb/month.
According to my newfound bible, they're saying all I need is 125 calories/day surplus which maths out to 0.25 lbs/week (to get to 1lb/month muscle). 125 calories is a potato or banana. It's such a small amount that I'm not even sure how I'll keep track of it. I eat in a range of 1700-1900 and don't weigh my food and I'm not about to start. I'll just have to remember to eat one more potato everyday.
Ummm...bulking is a calorie surplus...that's literally the definition of the term. When you want to put on mass, fat or otherwise you eat a surplus of calories to fuel that process...excess energy goes to both muscle and fat accumulation. More so muscle if you're lifting, but it's the same damn process.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Must be said, the absolute certainty is to be somewhat admired. The IDGAF what all you super experienced female lifters and personal trainers with experience of recomp and bulking say I'm going to prove all of you wrong.
I too look forward to September.
I am somewhat tempted to actually add this to my calendar.4 -
Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.
Both #3 & #6 have lines on an area. #3 has muscle. #6 has fat delineation. Your stomach lines don't mean you are in#3 territory. #3's right forearm is, IMO, the arm of a woman who has been lifting long enough to have a good muscle base.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.
Both #3 & #6 have lines on an area. #3 has muscle. #6 has fat delineation. Your stomach lines don't mean you are in#3 territory. #3's right forearm is, IMO, the arm of a woman who has been lifting long enough to have a good muscle base.
LOL really? They're approximations not replicas!0 -
Are we talking about the built lean number 3 or the one with the drawings? If it's the drawings one are you talking about 25%?0
-
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.
Both #3 & #6 have lines on an area. #3 has muscle. #6 has fat delineation. Your stomach lines don't mean you are in#3 territory. #3's right forearm is, IMO, the arm of a woman who has been lifting long enough to have a good muscle base.
LOL really? They're approximations not replicas!
I have no idea what you are talking about re: approximations/replicas. I am talking about the photos of women, not the drawings.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.
Both #3 & #6 have lines on an area. #3 has muscle. #6 has fat delineation. Your stomach lines don't mean you are in#3 territory. #3's right forearm is, IMO, the arm of a woman who has been lifting long enough to have a good muscle base.
LOL really? They're approximations not replicas!
I have no idea what you are talking about re: approximations/replicas. I am talking about the photos of women, not the drawings.
jeezus! Nobody cares about the silly drawings. Anyone can look at that BuiltLean chart and decide which image closely approximates their overall look. It's that simple ffs!0 -
You sound confused in general1
-
Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I've been in and out of gyms most of my life and I've seen both men and women make some really incredible progress over the course of several months...I have yet to see anyone, male or female obtain an elite physique in a matter of months.
No one was suggesting the goal was an elite shredded stage ready physique. Just a woman going from image #3 to #2 on the BuiltLean Chart.
Not talking about show ready...#2 on that chart is still a pretty elite fitness physique...besides, it's not like #3 hasn't been putting some time in the gym either...that's a pretty rockin' physique as well.
You're talking about basically going from zero to looking like you've been training in one way or the other for years in a matter of months, and I've never seen that happen...ever.
Right now, i look like #3 and would like to be a #2. I'm physically fit and have been exercising consistently for 2 years and lost excess body fat but haven't done any serious resistance training so I'm a newbie. I don't see what the fuss is about given the difference between the 2 looks is not so drastic as to be unachievable in 6 months.
All I'm hearing is women making excuses like
...it's really complicated and really really hard...
...most people are doing it wrong...
...I don't know anyone who's ever done it...
...the average woman doesn't look like #2...so what? Yeah, 70% of US is obese or overweight, so no surprises there.
None of these excuses translate to "it can't be done".
Interesting...a lot of these women commenting are pretty into lifting, some of them competitively...I don't think they're making excuses. Many of the people commenting actually have quite a bit of experience (both men and women).
Also, you're not coming from basically nothing (as it sounds like the OP is)...while you may not have been lifting seriously, you've still been involved in fitness for a couple of years...I'm sure your body has gone through physiological changes during that time...that's a little different from the OP describing herself as basically skinny with minimal muscle mass and from the sounds of it, not much training background. You've already been working on your body as a derivative of your fitness...for two years.
I agree that general fitness so far is a plus but in terms of muscle gaining potential and history of mostly cardio (hiking, cycling), I'm not seeing how I'm anything but a beginner.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/beginner-intermediate-advanced/
"Beginners (aka newbies, newbs, noobs, etc.) are people who are either completely new or at least somewhat new to consistent intelligent weight training.
Exactly what that means will vary slightly depending on who you ask, but in my opinion, I’d consider a beginner to be anyone who has been weight training for LESS than 6 months.
And again, that is 6 consistent months of intelligent weight training."
If you look like #3 in the chart, you have a relatively high amount of muscle mass with visible abs...more so than average...you would obviously look much different in 6 months of training than someone who's skinny and coming from nothing in the muscle mass department. You would have a substantial base to start with...if indeed you look like #3.
Huh? #3 doesn't have visible abs! She just has the lines on the side, like me.
Both #3 & #6 have lines on an area. #3 has muscle. #6 has fat delineation. Your stomach lines don't mean you are in#3 territory. #3's right forearm is, IMO, the arm of a woman who has been lifting long enough to have a good muscle base.
LOL really? They're approximations not replicas!
I have no idea what you are talking about re: approximations/replicas. I am talking about the photos of women, not the drawings.
jeezus! Nobody cares about the silly drawings. Anyone can look at that BuiltLean chart and decide which image closely approximates their overall look. It's that simple ffs!
I mean those photos can give you an idea but they are pretty vague because they don't include the lower body and everyone carries weight differently etc.
Just take measurements, progress photos, if you feel ready to add more mass then go for it. I maybe wouldn't bulk if you still had significant fat especially around the waist, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.
Man tbh I don't even know my BF%, I always just kind of guestimate and stop bulking when I feel too big and stop cutting when I feel too lean0
This discussion has been closed.
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