April 2017 Running Challenge

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  • ddmom0811
    ddmom0811 Posts: 1,881 Member
    BeeerRunner wrote: »
    April Running Challenge

    Just walked my sweet Spotty, but it didn't go so well. My calf has felt fine walking around the house, biking and doing the elliptical, but it certainly did not feel great today. So discouraged because I really wanted to run this weekend. It's very low on the pain scale...a 1.5 to 2, but definitely more than just tightness. I worry that if I run on it, my calf will either get worse or prolong getting back to 100%. :'(:'(:'(

    Oh no, sorry. But you are wise to not take a chance.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    amymoreorless wrote: »
    Is it too late to join? I managed 10 miles this morning - farthest distance I have ever run! It also seems like my weight loss is improving my pace. I've gone from 11 minute miles to 10 minute miles in six months. Feeling pretty proud of myself today. :)


    exercise.png

    never too late to join. Welcome!
  • kimlight2
    kimlight2 Posts: 483 Member
    @skippygirlsmom - Sorry you two had to give up on the half but it is better then risking further injury. A destination race sounds amazing!
    @7lenny7 - Good luck on your race! Can't wait to see the race report.
    @BeeerRunner - Better to be safe then sorry and risk a longer recovery.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    Sounds like a great plan @skippygirlsmom :wink:

    @BeeerRunner - Good call! Sounds like you could heal up pretty quick so long as you take it easy a couple more days.

    Welcome @amymoreorless!

    Looking forward to a post-race report @7lenny7!
  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,661 Member
    7lenny7 wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 I love your "woo!" in the vid! congrats!

    Thanks. I didn't have a lot left in me for celebrating, but I felt that I should acknowledge myself.
    OSUbuckeye906 wrote: »
    autumnblade75 wrote: »
    http://www.nbcchicago.com/multimedia/shamrock-shuffle-finish-line-10-417895003.html

    @autumnblade75 I was on TV! Around 4:15 or so in the video - they call my name, and I go "woo!" Crossing the finish line. I hate that they don't timestamp these clips better, but it was easier to find the first video where more of the bibs were blue (Wave 2) than red (Wave 1) and start watching from there. Next year, I expect to be looking the other direction, from the last clip where mostly red bibs proliferate, towards earlier finishes.

    I watched the video and I'm pretty sure I saw you! I'd really like to do the Shamrock Shuffle in Chicago some year. Actually, there's a lot of races I'd like to do in Chicago but money, time, time off work, etc. doesn't always allow...oh, and living closer than a 6 hour drive would help too :)

    I'm sure you did, if you watched the clip. It's a huge deal, around here. 20k or so runners. I hate crowds and it's too cold, and I really prefer race day packet pickup, and I missed my train by THIRTY TWO SECONDS!!! But I keep signing up.
    ariceroni wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 awesome job and congratulations on the PR! Pretty sure I saw you in the video :) I did the Shamrock Shuffle last year and had a blast, it's a great race! Sad I couldn't make it this year but unfortunately couldn't fit it into my training schedule or budget :disappointed:

    Next year...
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    So, I've been thinking about putting on my hydration belt, grabbing 6 gels (enough for 1 gel every 4 miles) and suing this weekend's run as a practice for fueling. Part of me wants to, but part of me is thinking that it might be better to just get the mileage PR this week and bring the fuel on my ruin next week, since they will be the same distance....The things I never thought I'd think about a year ago.....What do you guys think? Or is this another case of me over thinking and being a nervous first time marathoner?

    You'll need in-race fuel. You practice your fueling strategy in training runs. This has several benefits:

    a) You can eliminate fuel sources that your digestive system doesn't tolerate before they cause you a problem on race day.
    b) You train your body to actually digest the fuel on the run, rather than doing the natural thing of shifting all the blood flow to support running.
    c) You develop the habit of fueling, so you're less likely to simply forget on race day. (We're all stupider in the middle of a long race than we are before or after. That's why we plan and practice, so we don't have to do creative thinking when we're not at our best in that department.)

    I understand the theory of running fasted to train the body to burn fat. I suspect this is a very important thing for elite athletes, and a fairly minor effect for amateurs running a first marathon. I'd go with practicing to develop habits and race day behaviors because I think that will have a bigger positive impact on your performance than fine-tuning physical training for optimal use of nutrient sources.

    But that's just my opinion, and I have no scientific studies to support it.

    I am going to go on a rare case where I actually disagree with @MobyCarp

    I think it's even more important for an amateur marathoner to train fasted. Your body is in worse shape to use fat for fuel than an elite. You absolutely need to teach your body to use fat for fuel if it takes you 4 or 5 hours to run a marathon. An elite can run a marathon just a little over 2 hours and knows exactly what his/her fastest pace at an aerobic level is. Newbies don't. So they will more likely to prematurely exhaust their glycogen supplies. In fact, in my opinion, gels (and other forms of mid race fuel) help an amateur less than an elite.

    You cannot in any way possible run a decent or even half decent 4-5 hour run on carbs alone, whether glycogen stored or mid race fueling. There is absolutely no way 5 or 6 or even 8 100 calorie gels packs can in any way make a significant impact when you're burning over 4000, 5000, even 6000 calories in a marathon. You have to teach your body to burn fat for fuel for a long period of time.

    As an added bonus, when you go do a long training run where you exhaust your glycogen supplies (or make a serious impact) not only does it teach your body to rely more on fat, but it teaches your body that it needs to store even more glycogen.

    In a real marathon race, you will be passing aid stations that will remind you to, "Oh I need to take this gel I am carrying". It's not like a training run where you don't pass any of that and you actually get caught up in the run itself.

    I agree that you need to practice your strategy in some of your training runs, you do need to weed out the types of fuel that bothers your digestive system, you need to learn to rip open a gel pack while running and practice holding a little cup of water and drink it while running. Your body needs to learn to adjust to digest a gel pack while running. That I do agree. But again, what we are talking about is a single 100 calorie gel pack every 45 minutes when you probably can burn that in less than 10 minutes of marathon running.

    Well, wait - the glucose is about fueling your brain, not your legs, right? I feel like we just covered this. I feel more confused than ever now. I was hoping to do better with the fuel this year. Last year, I planned to eat a gummy bear every half mile, and 2 mouthfulls of water from the hydration pack. I did ok with the water, but pretty much ignored the stupid gummy bears, and everything kind of crashed at mile 18. Supposing I had even kept up with the bears, I would have added only about 450 calories during the 5 hours. My longest training run had been 18 miles, and the gummy bears seemed to work. I choke on their little arms and legs, though - and they can start to get difficult to chew while running. So this year, I was going to try swapping out solids for liquids. Gatorade, it is. I had 2 bottles on my run today - ran out at about mile 15 of 18. But I also had some bathroom issues and then I came back and tried to finish too quickly and gave up, and then after a few minutes decided I was going to get the full 18 in - I'm not interested in running 4 miles tomorrow for this mileage goal nonsense. I want a completely sedentary rest day where I play Skyrim with breaks only for food and bathroom! I feel like I failed. But if it's a nutrition issue, I blame last night's entire Little Caesar's Hot N' Ready Pizza, or the 2 corndogs I decided to eat for breakfast. Probably not the Gatorade. But it bears further testing. And now there are only 7 more long runs to experiment with. Possibly, next time, I shall water the gatorade in the hydration vest and see how that works. The calculators say I shouldn't need fuel during a marathon, anyway, at the pace I'm going to try to run it.
    http://endurancecalculator.com/EnduranceCalculatorForm.html So any sugar I can dump in there to help keep my brain working is useful, right? Or detrimental, because my stupid legs will gobble it up? But then I should be able to go faster, right? Or not - because training.

    Either way - here's this week's miles.

    exercise.png

    4/02 - 5 miles
    4/03 - 10 miles
    4/04 - 6 miles
    4/05 - 10 miles
    4/06 - 6 miles
    4/07 - 18 miles 3 separate Zombies, Run! workouts. Overall time: 3:32 Time running: 3:18 (I honestly thought that would be MUCH worse...)



  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    edited April 2017
    4/1 6.55 run
    4/2 5.35 walk
    4/3 5.35 run
    4/5 7.25 run + 1.5 walk
    4/6 6.2 run + 1.3 walk
    4/7 4.3 run + 1.5 walk
    Total so far: 29.65r + 9.65w = 39.3 miles

    Not a lot of time today between outpatient and having to pick up my son, so only 4.3 miles. The sun is finally out. I have a weird pain in my side which I can't tell if it's a muscle cramp or not. Trying not to let it get my anxiety up.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    @skippygirlsmom - Too bad you had to drop out of the half, but the more I run the more I believe in staying (or getting) healthy to run again.

    No, the bling isn't wood. It's a standard medal, but I'm more proud of it than the prettier finisher's medal because had to do more than just finish to get it. The wood you see is the table it was sitting on when I took the pictures.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    @autumnblade75 - My brain asploded. :smile:

  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    @7lenny7 that is a good possibility! You are so right, once the decision was made I felt a weight lifted off my shoulders. Deep down I knew it was the right thing for both of us, especially her with sectionals coming up.

    Thanks for the DNS support, I hate that more than DNF. I went to PT today and he said I'm glad you decided not to run.

    Have a great weekend everyone! I'm on vacation next week and I can't wait.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited April 2017
    Something I found about fasted and non-fasted long runs for marathon training.
    https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/marathon-long-runs-on-an-empty-stomach-or-fully-fueled/

    That one seems pretty consistent with what I have read about fasted running in the past in that it boosts your glycogen storage. The difference is, I always thought a fasted run meant starting the run in a fasted state, yet you would still take in fuel if the run was long enough. Today, my understanding of a fasted run is quite different.

    Here's another thing I found about fasted runs on an ultra running forum.
    http://www.ultrarunningltd.co.uk/training-schedule/nutrition/training-in-a-fasted-state-pros-cons

    The section in that one titled "The bad news" is where I wish there were sources listed for that. If that is true, then the increase in fat burning is only while running fasted, and does not change how much fat the body burns when it is fueled or taking in fuel. If that is true, then what is the point for anyone who is targeting a race of over 2 hours? I can't really picture a reason to not want to be glycogen loaded or refuel at any point on a race longer than two hours.

    So confusing.

    The missing piece here seems to be supporting data about increasing your fat burning capabilities overall on all long runs (fasted or unfasted) if you do some of your training runs in a fasted state. Without that, it would seem that the only long term benefit that can apply to all kinds of long runs is the increased glycogen storage (which is a great reason to do occasional fasted runs).
  • vandinem
    vandinem Posts: 550 Member 
    Date     Miles      MTD
------   -----    -------
Apr 02     5.0        5.0
Apr 05     4.3        9.3
Apr 07     6.4       15.7

    exercise.png
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @WhatMeRunning I read those articles earlier today, as a matter of fact. It's part of the reason I'm still not 100% sure on fueling for my run tomorrow morning. I'm pretty certain I'll bring my hydration belt rhough, jusat so I get practice with it.....Even though having a new piece of equipment while going for a distance PR isn't the best idea maybe, it will also mean I have something to drink with me, which I haven't done, out to 15 miles, thus far.
  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,661 Member
    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 - My brain asploded. :smile:

    Yeah, I'm sorry. I think mine did, too. Maybe I didn't have enough glucose to keep it working...
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited April 2017
    Another thing that just occurred to me when talking about boosting glycogen storage (I don't mean to hijack from the fat burning topic).

    In the past, the training runs I depended on to really boost my glycogen storage capabilities due to running in a glycogen depleted state was "back to back long runs". The general idea with these is to do two long runs on two consecutive days. I would generally do something like a 16 miler Saturday and a 10-12 miler Sunday. I have seen some people switch that around and do the longer run the second day (and I am 100% convinced that they are demons :naughty:).

    It never dawned on me to compare these in any way to fasted runs. I mean, if the goal is to boost glycogen storage, then you can do one or the other, or both and switching off however you see fit. I know that I like having back to back long runs late in my base building phase after I have incorporated mid-week long runs to get my highest base mileage weeks. The downside to that sort of schedule was that everything was either a long run or an easy run, no chance for speedwork. I actually have this exact scenario planned in on this current base building plan. My next cycle introduces a mid-week long run, and as that builds up I will then later introduce back to back long runs on the weekends.

    I will admit I have never heard any claim about increased fat burning capability associated with back to back long runs (other than running more miles and burning more fat). So a fasted long run provides the possibility of that benefit over back to back long runs. Yet at the same time it is a "depleted run", so I suppose an argument could be made that day two is pretty much by default a "fasted run", even though you are likely going to be taking in any carbs you can get your hands on (you will need them too).

    Granted, the one benefit back to back long runs gives that fasted long runs do not is simply the extra mileage. Both require some extra grit to endure, but the back to back would involve a higher total mileage over the two runs than the one fasted long run.

    There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
    Long run was slated for tomorrow so naturally my husbands' work needs him for the weekend. Treadmill it is.

    April 1- 42.2
    April 2- 7.6
    April 3- 14
    April 4- 13.4
    April 5- Off
    April 6- 10
    April 7- 15.8

    103km/300km


  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    Long run was slated for tomorrow so naturally my husbands' work needs him for the weekend. Treadmill it is.

    April 1- 42.2
    April 2- 7.6
    April 3- 14
    April 4- 13.4
    April 5- Off
    April 6- 10
    April 7- 15.8

    103km/300km


    Ugh....TM miles.... how far you got to get in?
  • snowyne
    snowyne Posts: 268 Member
    4/1 - 7.0 mi.
    4/2 - 4.0 mi
    4/3 - 3.6 mi.
    4/4 - rest
    4/5 - 6.0 mi.
    4/6 - 4.0 mi.
    4/7 - 5.0 mi.

    April goal: 29.6/100 miles
  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    Long run was slated for tomorrow so naturally my husbands' work needs him for the weekend. Treadmill it is.

    April 1- 42.2
    April 2- 7.6
    April 3- 14
    April 4- 13.4
    April 5- Off
    April 6- 10
    April 7- 15.8

    103km/300km


    Ugh....TM miles.... how far you got to get in?

    30k, I've done that distance on the mill before so it's fine. I'm just a whiner when I plan a route against distance and I have to scrap it lol
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    Long run was slated for tomorrow so naturally my husbands' work needs him for the weekend. Treadmill it is.

    April 1- 42.2
    April 2- 7.6
    April 3- 14
    April 4- 13.4
    April 5- Off
    April 6- 10
    April 7- 15.8

    103km/300km


    Ugh....TM miles.... how far you got to get in?

    30k, I've done that distance on the mill before so it's fine. I'm just a whiner when I plan a route against distance and I have to scrap it lol

    Ugh. More props to you. I have a very hard time with 10k on the TM. So glad my LR tomorrow is outside.
  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
    Have a good run for the treadmill trapped @MNLittleFinn lol. @WhatMeRunning I do a lot of my winter training on the mill so it doesn't bother me that much anymore. While I can run ice to a degree my knees can get dodgy- gotta make peace with the Precor ;)
  • KeepRunningFatboy
    KeepRunningFatboy Posts: 3,055 Member
    WK: 4.3.17 - 4.9.17

    M - Rest / Recover Day
    T - 9 m. 9:05 pace. TM.
    W - 7 m. 9:10 pace. TM.
    T - OFF
    F - 5 miles.
    S -
    S - LR
    Total - m.

  • OSUbuckeye906
    OSUbuckeye906 Posts: 315 Member
    Just catching up on the thread and I'm listening in to this whole fueling topic. I've completed 8 marathons, but have always ran my longer runs fueled. As I build back up my miles, I think I'll look more into this and see how my body does running fasted. Right now, I'm only up to about 6 miles for my long runs but I've already taken water with me on a run or two. I don't really need the water except for the fact that I have asthma and an occasional sip or two of water helps to keep my throat clear of thick mucous that I would otherwise choke on. As someone who has always been more susceptible to heat/fainting and also someone who sweats like crazy, I've always erred on the side of caution made sure to take in water, gatorade/electrolytes, fuel, and even salt tabs when needed. I also usually know how long I can go on shorter long runs without having any fuel, how often I need fuel on my longer runs, and usually how long I can take to get out for my run in the morning before I start getting hungry. It will be interesting to see how well my body responds to being re-trained on fueling if I decide to go this route.

    @shanaber Thanks for mentioning that there is a sport and face version of the same sunscreen. I realized the other day that I'm actually almost out, so I'll have to look for those when I go to buy more. I experienced the sunscreen in my eyes the other day mid-run, so I guess I'll need to try to get used to wearing a hat as another alternative.

    @BeeerRunner Hope your calf and butt are feeling better haha! A sore butt is one of the major reasons I don't enjoy bike riding and why I stopped training for a triathlon a few years ago (well, that and the beginnings of carpel tunnel). Just read your latest update on your calf...bummer :( Hope it's back to 0 pain soon

    @HRKinchen Beautiful pics!

    @MNLittleFinn Good luck on the long run tomorrow!

    @MobyCarp Congrats on the shiny new medal

    @lporter229 Interesting needle therapy pic, but I have to admit that I had to scroll past it and then scroll past it again so I could see it without stopping on the pic...I still wanted to see it but I can't stand needles! Glad it's benefiting you.

    @skippygirlsmom Sorry about your race but hope the two of you can come up with a cool race to do together in the future. Probably the smartest choice too.

  • hanlonsk
    hanlonsk Posts: 762 Member
    HRKinchen wrote: »
    I spaced for a second because I've recently been contemplating a 10K* in January (*a quarter marathon, actually, which the Louisiana Marathon folks call "a 10K with lagniappe" :lol: ).


    So, it's not real often that MFP expands my actual vocabulary. But, I had to google lagniappe. And, now that I know what it means, I completely love the description.
  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    Hi guys

    Aim: 130k

    4/2: 13.1k -casual run-
    4/3: 1.5k -cause I am lazy, that's why-
    4/4: 4k -as c/d of leg day training-
    4/6: 5k -after gym-
    4/7: 8.5k -intervals-
    4/8: 9.1k -various surfaces-

    41.1/130k

    Started slow cause of the stifness due to yesterday's intervals. Last 2.5k was at 4:45 min/k.


    Stay free of injuries!
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