April 2017 Running Challenge

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  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    jessicalferrara wrote: »
    Hey everyone, I have a question for you. I'm not sure if I should be posting this in the "work out" section of MFP or if you guys can just help, but last month was the first time I started running outside of Orangetheory. Before March I would go to Orangetheory about 3-4 times a week, and just relax on the days I wasn't going. Since March started, I have added running to the mix, twice a week. I usually run about 3-4 miles those two days. My question is, by adding the running, will it cause my muscles to retain water even though I have been doing Orangetheory since November?

    Thanks in advance!

    First off, I had to google what Orangetheory was and found: Orangetheory Fitness is a privately owned fitness franchise based in Boca Raton, Florida. It offers group personal training workouts based on high intensity interval training that blend cardiovascular and strength training.

    So it's a kind of HIIT.

    So your question about retaining water really has nothing to do with HIIT or Orangetheory. But with running in general.

    I'm not an expert on water retention, so if you have some special circumstance on why you are retaining water then I am not familiar with it most likely.

    So in a normal healthy person, there are 2 ways you will retain water. Sodium intake will increase water retention and carb loading (or glycogen storage in general).

    I always laugh when a big race is coming up on a weekend where it's also expected to be really hot out and everyone on social media is saying don't forget to hydrate extra this week, like humans are camels or something. You can't just drink a lot of water and expect to store it. If you drink a lot of water, you are going to pee most of it out. Along with that pee will be electrolytes. So people that drink too much water during the week will actually dehydrate themselves which is the opposite effect. If you want to hydrate yourself, you need electrolytes as well as water, and sodium is the biggest water retainer. But you can only still retain so much water before you will again pee it out.

    The other thing is glycogen retains water. So in my earlier post I talked about glycogen is your body's way to store sugar (glucose) in your muscles and liver. In order to produce glycogen (which is basically a long chain of glucose molecules bonded together by water) you need water. For every part glucose in glycogen, you need 3 parts water. So if you are storing a lot of glycogen, you are also storing a lot of water. But your body again, can only store so much glycogen. After than, it stores excess sugar as fat.

    The third way your body will retain water is as a result of muscle damage. So if you have DOMS from running a lot, your body will send water around the muscle damage to protect the muscle from further damage. Same thing with a burn, which is why you blister.

    So running will temporally reduce water retention as a result of using glycogen but will immediately go back into water retention during recovery when you eat carbs and drink water (which is actually a good thing). Same thing if you run and sweat a lot. You loose some of the water retained from sodium.

    But if you have DOMS, that will help retain water while you are recovering. I am not sure why you are asking about water retention anyway. Can you explain your question more as to why you are concerned about water retention?

  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    angmarie28 wrote: »
    @WhatMeRunning -thank you for the advice, i know it wont fuel my muscles, but i need something to wake me up, I work m-f days and friday and saturday graveyards at the moment, this just started and its only for 2 months, then my m-f job is done for the summer. caffeine doesnt do much for waking me up and feeling energized (i sleep better after drinking a cup of coffee at night), so im wanting something to just get my brain in the game, it may not be such a problem as im just starting this 2nd job, but want to be prepared in the case i need a boost.

    Have you tried a cold shower or dump ice water over your head? That would wake the crap out of me.

    You will need a good warm up. So plan to walk a little bit then go into a slow jog and then slowly build up to your training pace. Once the heart starts pumping and getting the blood around, that will wake you up. If not, then throw in some strides or fartlek running (short faster pace intervals and then slow back down to your training pace). Do hi leg kicks (where your heels almost touch your butt as you run) or maybe throw in some deep leg squats. Swing those arms in big circles. Lots of dynamic stretching. It may actually take you a mile or 2 of slow jogging before your muscles are finally warmed up and ready for training pace.

  • JessicaMcB
    JessicaMcB Posts: 1,503 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    @MNLittleFinn you've been at this long enough to know that distance is largely a mind game (and thankfully the majority of us are insane anyway ;) ).

    Partially true. Yes, your body can go a lot further than what your mind tells you.
    However, play chicken with this, and you can create a serious injury. Like building up too much mileage too quickly, or concentrate your weekly mileage into your long runs and not enough in your mid week runs. Or do too much speed work, or not running your easy runs easy. You want to challenge your boundaries but in a smart way.

    I agree that you need to be smart about it, definitely, no one wants to injure themselves trying to push too hard. Wasn't trying to imply that base mileage, etc. isn't important to the process, sorry if it came off that way!
  • Mari33a
    Mari33a Posts: 1,111 Member
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    01/04 4.04 miles
    03/04 3.10 miles
    05/04 3.51 miles


    exercise.png

  • patrikc333
    patrikc333 Posts: 436 Member
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    raining day, so no bike ride. done 9 miles yesterday and 9 today, today was a bit tired. hope in a sunny day tomorrow, so i can ride, as i don't want to run too many days after the marathon.

    i kept my pace very slow on purpose, and i have to say that i feel good, i'm sure if i was not moving i would be worst. these mornings I was tempted to stay in bed to rest, but i was really stiff. after these 2 runs my body feels more relaxed
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited April 2017
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    The universe seems to wish to delay my morning run. It's cold, windy and rainy (which I'm prepared for from the forecast), my 5 year old is already up and about (early rise for him), and my 17 year old's bus is running 30 minutes late. Both of them require close supervision (autism). By the time the bus gets here I won't have enough time to run before my wife has to leave for a volunteer gig. While I could have woken her early to watch them, I also have the option to run this afternoon. She was up late, so I suspect it would be like waking a bear. I prefer morning runs a million times more than afternoon/evening, but today I can go ahead and settle on that. Besides, the rain will be over or diminished by then and it will be warmer. :sunglasses: It all kind of adds up. Had one factor been off, I would be making the morning run happen anyway. I hate afternoon runs! They're always worse!
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    Date Miles today - Miles for April
    4/1 20 miles - 20
    4/2 10 miles - 30
    4/3 REST DAY
    4/4 10 miles - 40
    4/4 4 miles - 44 << Daily Double
    4/5 6.2 miles - 50.2


    exercise.png

    Upcoming races:
    UAH 8K - 3/6 <<< 34:33 3 in AG
    Oak Barrel HM - 4/2 <<<< 1:38:00 3 in AG
    Bridge Street HM - 4/10 <<< 1:36:33 3 in AG
    PEO-AVN Team Day 5K - 5/4 <<< 19:10 (2.9 mi) 1 in AG 5 OA
    Cotton Row Run 10K - 5/30 << 44:57 PR
    Firecracker Chase 10.2 miler 6/25 << 1:20:22 1 in AG & 15 OA
    Huntsville Half Marathon - 11/12 << 1:35:55 2 in AG & 25 OA
    Rocket City Marathon - 12/10 << 2:44:41
    Elkmont Hound Dog Half (unofficial) - 1/21 << 1:46:48 2 OA
    Elkmont Hound Dog Half (rescheduled) - 2/18 << 1:41:04 1 in AG & 24 OA
    Kentucky Derby Festival Marathon - 4/29

    10K Recovery run this morning.
  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
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    03 - 13.37
    04 - 9.59
    05 - 13.39

    Total: 36.35 / 175 miles
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited April 2017
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    @angmarie28 - Are you getting at least 8 hours of sleep each night? Shift changes are tough. I think @Stoshew71's warm-up advice might be the best for you to get going on those days you are tired, but was curious about the sleep. Reason I ask is that once you start getting the mileage up, particular to get into marathon territory, probably the #1 most important thing, even more than the actual training itself, is proper rest. Without it, the training is just going to cause more harm than good (you will wind up sick or injured and unable to finish training for the race).

    If sleep is an issue, maybe you can reschedule some things, like when you run on certain days, or when you go to sleep, to allow you to get the extra sleep? This was something I had to force on my life. I spent basically all of my adult life depriving myself of necessary sleep and just trudged on, downing coffee or whatever to wake me up so I did not feel too tired. I guess I figured it was not causing any problems and I could just keep on doing that, getting a good nights sleep once in a while on some weekend or holiday. That is until I started running. At that point the sleep became mandatory. I learned this the hard way by experiencing the fatigue, going into overtraining, and getting sick. I actually started going to bed earlier than I ever thought I would, which also meant earlier bed for the kids (they are not fans). But my wake time was firm, so the only adjustment I could make was when I went to bed. I go to bed between 8pm and 9pm, like I'm some old grandpa or something. People sometimes ask how I can go to sleep that early, but considering I only started doing it when I was already tired from training, it comes quite naturally. As long as I am still running it is easy to go to bed early in order to get a good night's rest to heal up and build strength (always remember that your strength gains only come while you are resting). When I was not running (from injury) I suddenly found myself staying up late again. Since starting back up, I have quite easily found myself going to bed early again because my body wants the rest now.

    You may just need to do a lot of planning around your schedule to fit in the rest, and allow yourself the flexibility to move your runs around if needed. You should never be forcing your runs in (at least early on, you have to force it in once you get to really high mileage like around 50+ mpw).

    Again, hope all of this info is helping somehow. Everyone's situations are unique.
  • katharmonic
    katharmonic Posts: 5,720 Member
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    Date :::: Miles :::: April MTD (goal = 95)
    04/01/17 :::: 7.7 :::: 7.7
    04/02/17 :::: 3.5 :::: 11.2
    04/03/17 :::: 2.5 :::: 13.7
    04/04/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 13.7
    04/05/17 :::: 3.5 :::: 17.2

    Got out for a run in Indianapolis this morning. Turns out there are a couple of nice trails right outside the hotel/convention center area so I was able to do a nice loop along the river. The weather was cool at 46 degrees but there was a pretty bitter wind. I saw some lightning in the distance and I know thunderstorms are on deck for most of the day. And then snow is back in the forecast for tomorrow morning. Looks like I probably won't be doing the 5k I had planned to participate in tomorrow am for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is I'm totally over running in snow and didn't pack for that.

    Off to convention it up for a few days! Hopefully sneaking in another run or two but we'll see.
  • KatieJane83
    KatieJane83 Posts: 2,002 Member
    edited April 2017
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    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    @angmarie28 - Are you getting at least 8 hours of sleep each night? Shift changes are tough. I think @Stoshew71's warm-up advice might be the best for you to get going on those days you are tired, but was curious about the sleep. Reason I ask is that once you start getting the mileage up, particular to get into marathon territory, probably the #1 most important thing, even more than the actual training itself, is proper rest. Without it, the training is just going to cause more harm than good (you will wind up sick or injured and unable to finish training for the race).

    If sleep is an issue, maybe you can reschedule some things, like when you run on certain days, or when you go to sleep, to allow you to get the extra sleep? This was something I had to force on my life. I spent basically all of my adult life depriving myself of necessary sleep and just trudged on, downing coffee or whatever to wake me up so I did not feel too tired. I guess I figured it was not causing any problems and I could just keep on doing that, getting a good nights sleep once in a while on some weekend or holiday. That is until I started running. At that point the sleep became mandatory. I learned this the hard way by experiencing the fatigue, going into overtraining, and getting sick. I actually started going to bed earlier than I ever thought I would, which also meant earlier bed for the kids (they are not fans). But my wake time was firm, so the only adjustment I could make was when I went to bed. I go to bed between 8pm and 9pm, like I'm some old grandpa or something. People sometimes ask how I can go to sleep that early, but considering I only started doing it when I was already tired from training, it comes quite naturally. As long as I am still running it is easy to go to bed early in order to get a good night's rest to heal up and build strength (always remember that your strength gains only come while you are resting). When I was not running (from injury) I suddenly found myself staying up late again. Since starting back up, I have quite easily found myself going to bed early again because my body wants the rest now.

    You may just need to do a lot of planning around your schedule to fit in the rest, and allow yourself the flexibility to move your runs around if needed. You should never be forcing your runs in (at least early on, you have to force it in once you get to really high mileage like around 60 mpw).

    Again, hope all of this info is helping somehow. Everyone's situations are unique.

    Thank you for writing this, because this is something I know I personally need to focus on more myself. I'm already up to 45 mile weeks and I know I need to work on getting more quality sleep, because I definitely feel it sometimes in my runs. It's just tough cause there's always a good book to read! Lol. #bookwormproblems

    Speaking of sleep, I did not have the most restful night last night, and I'm doing some rejigging of my running schedule. Going to move Saturday's shorter 5 mile recovery run to today, because I know if I try to go long my lack of sleep is going to bite me in the *kitten*. This also frees of Saturday to devote solely to my zumba class, and not kill my legs the day before my long run. Tomorrow and Friday will then be my 9 and 8 mile runs, respectively. This seems like an ok idea, right?

    Also, holy crap, another "drawback" of all this increased mileage, just got a notification from Strava this morning that I already have 400 miles on my Brooks Glycerins! When did that happen?? Lol. I need to order another pair, and also I think I want to get a pair of Altra road shoes to really start creating a rotation. #runnerproblems
  • dkabambe
    dkabambe Posts: 544 Member
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    Very easy 5k today, which was actually 2.8k to Aldi, a quick shop and 2.2k back to another shop. By then had too much stuff to fit in backpack so I walked home the last 1k. GPS wasn't working on my phone so the map trace looks a bit off but from experience I know the distance was about right. No problems at all from calf so I'll try for another easy run tomorrow.

    exercise.png
    2-Apr: 19.0k easy
    5-Apr: 5k very easy

    Upcoming Races:
    14-May-2017: Bexhill Starfish Marathon (DNS)
    9-Jul-2017: Southend Half Marathon (Possible)
    12-Aug-2017: Hadleigh Castle 10K - Hill trail race (Possible*)
    16-Sep-2017: Kew Gardens 10K (Possible)
    24-Sep-2017: Windsor Half Marathon (Possible*)
    29-Oct-2017: Thurrock 10k (Possible)
  • angmarie28
    angmarie28 Posts: 2,804 Member
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    @9voice9 premiere protein shakes are my favorite, I drink them also after 5+ mile runs and after weight lifting, the powders trigger my gag reflex.

    @WhatMeRunning I usually do get 7-8 hours of sleep. but this work thing has put a damper on that. I started the training before the second job, but I work in a school, as a school nurse, so that means no work or pay checks in the summer, so there is another job i fill in occasionally, well my boss at my second job said she had a summer shift for me, but I have to start it in April, so thats why for 2 months I am working 7 days a week. definitely not my ideal situation, but it is what it is. im definitely going to try and get my sleep in, i go to bed right after my kids, so about 830, and i get up between 5 and 6. then on weekends im planning on napping before my shift, then after i get off at 7am, go for my run, then home for a long nap. the bonus of this night job is its at a locally owned assisted living place, and i am allowed to nap there as long as i can wake up to call lights and whatever, which is no problem, so I should be getting about 8 hours on weekdays, and 6 on weekends for now, then summer i will be back to sleeping fairly normal.

    if it doesnt work out well, i will most likely go home and nap first before gong out for my run.


    on another note, i opted out of my run last night. my daughter was having paranoia's about bugs in her bed (shes 2 and dreamed about the ants her and her dad found at the park while i was running sunday, and fur on her toy horse was tickling her feet, so now she thinks her bed has bugs) so after stripping her bed andand spending 20 minutes looking for bugs and finding none, she decided her bed was safe, so by then it was so late, i wouldnt get done with my run til 10, i just decided to not do it. hopefully bed time will be easier tonight, and i can get my run in.

    god i cant wait till the sun is up sooner. theres no street lights around my place so unless theres no clouds its pitch black, so my runs have to be later (i have a treadmill, but that wakes everyone up in the morning)
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    @angmarie28 - Long distance running doesn't require a pre-run energy boost of any sort, it's just not how the muscles work. In any running you are depleting your muscle glycogen, but for long distance running you want that store of glycogen to last as long as possible. So this running needs to be done in an aerobic state so as to burn primarily fat from your body as fuel (as well as lactate produced in your muscles from running). Training your body to do this with a long distance training plan adapts your muscles and everything else to adjust to such a state. Believe it or not, the purpose of gels and all that is NOT to power your muscles at all, and your muscles are not really even going to use them. What the gels and stuff does is keep you blood sugar levels high enough to feed your brain. Your brain only runs on glucose, it will not run on fat. Your muscles are different though and can run on fat without needing glucose from your blood sugar. Those gel packs only have about 100 calories, so it is pretty obvious they are not feeding the muscles which will be burning a lot more than 100 calories during that time! :smile:

    Are you so fatigued ahead of your Saturday morning runs that you can't run without something perking you up? I am suspecting not, but if so then that is a WHOLE other story. Assuming you COULD run, you should alternate between fasted and non-fasted runs. There is data out there supporting this. The idea is to have your muscles program themselves to run more on fat than glycogen, meaning your glycogen stores last longer, and you can go further. The reason for alternating between fasted and non-fasted runs is that there is data out there showing that those who always run in a fasted state show the same level of adaptation to fat-burning as those who always run in a non-fasted state. But those who alternate make this adaptation faster. I don't know why, but as I said, there is data out there supporting this. By fasted run, this means starting out in a fasted state. It doesn't mean not taking anything at all during the run if it's a long run.

    You should take something to refuel for long runs. Think of long runs by time, not distance. I find I don't need fuel for any run less than 2 hours, but any run over that and I need to plan ahead. Some fuel every 45 minutes, I fuel closer to every hour. About 100 calories of sugar is what you are looking for, but the gels and stuff like that also add in electrolytes, because they have electrolytes and stuff (sorry for the Idiocracy reference). Just find what settles well, is easy to carry, and tastes good.

    Yikes, that's a lot, didn't mean to make a long post. Hope this helps!

    The concept has to do with diminishing returns. Running in a fasted state will only help you improve your fat burning capabilities so much. If you always run fasted, then you are not always training at peak performance. If you run some training runs in a fully fueled state, on those days you should be able to train with higher intensity (thus stressing your anaerobic and aerobic systems harder). In your fasted days, you are targeting your fat for fuel capabilities. Also, on your fully fueled days, you will get to practice your refueling techniques, see what fuel works best for your body, see if you can hold race pace, ect. Early in your training cycle you will run fasted more often than fully fueled and later in your training cycle you are going to insert a lot more fully fueled days (in theory).

    I tend to run fasted anyway since I run first thing in the morning and the only thing I can get into my system is a mug of coffee before I go out and run.

    As I am reading @WhatMeRunning response more (by the way everything is correct in what he is saying about using fat for fuel and glycogen expenditure and what not) one thing I need to add. If you want to use fat for fuel, your body needs oxygen. That is why you need to slow down and stay at an aerobic intensity like @WhatMeRunning wrote. Your muscle cannot burn fatty acids without oxygen.

    So understand this. When you run, you are breathing in oxygen which fills up your lungs. Which then has to transfer to your blood by attaching to hemoglobin. The heart pumps that blood to all places starting with the big arteries down to the tiny capillaries which feeds directly to your muscle. Your muscle then takes in that oxygen into the mitochondria which is then able to use that oxygen with fuel (glucose and fatty acids) to make ATP. It's the ATP that fuels each muscle contraction which allows you to run, jump, swim, ride a bike, ect.

    When we start out, our body is not used to running or exercise of any kind. The body is lazy and will only maintain a level of fitness that we place demand on. So if you just all of a sudden decide to run 3 miles or swim 400 meters or bike 20 miles, your body reacts by going Holy *kitten* what are you doing to me. Your heart is weak, so it can't pump that oxygen rich blood fast enough of where it needs to go, the hemoglobin count is lower so you won't transfer as much oxygen with each breath, so less oxygen is going to your muscles, your capillary count is lower so you can't get that blood fast enough to your muscles, and your mitochondria count is low and small in size. So even if you could rush the oxygen to your muscles, your muscles couldn't even use it. But as you train at that slow conversational pace for longer and longer durations, your heart start to get that much stronger, your hemoglobin count rises, your body produces more capillaries around your muscle cells, and the mitochondria in your muscle cells get bigger and increase in number. When your body is able to use more oxygen, it can fully burn glucose and also use fatty acids. Plus your body produces more enymes that will release more fatty acids into your blood stream from the fatty tissue you have hanging. All of this = to more energy for your running.

    So you could eat 5 Snicker bars like 45 minutes before you run and eat a gel pack every 30 minutes during your run, but if you are fairly new to running, because your body cannot deliver enough oxygen to your running muscles, all of that sugar is not going to do you any good. Not too mention that your blood can only have a certain level of glucose at any time anyway. You need to improve your cardio vascular system to get more energy. In order to do that, lots and lots of very slow running. Conversational pace slow running.

    Awesome explanation Stan the Man! And @WhatMeRunning
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
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    7lenny7 wrote: »
    @girlinahat when I see a gaggle of runners, walkers, bikers or whatever coming towards me on a trail, using the entire width and not looking like they're going move their *kitten* over, I'll stand my ground and if it gets to the point where why may collide, I just stop in the trail where I'm at. They can either run into me or go around me and so far they've gone around me. I also follow it up with a sarcastic "oh, excuse me, I'm sorry!". Maybe I'm an *kitten*, but I'm ok with that. Inconsiderate trail hogs are a big peeve of mine.

    Oh I'm the same. I was NOT going to move from my line,whatever happened.

    My pet peeve is walking along a narrow pavement and a couple come towards you holding hands. For some reason they think it more acceptable for you to step into the road into the path of an oncoming car than conceive the idea that they could go single file just for a moment.

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