Thoughts on eating all organic
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Organic fruits and vegetables should have to be labled "fertilized with poop". After all, consumers have a right to know.5
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I spoke with a PhD Chemist from MIT who had done considerable research in that area. He/they had determined that organic labeled foods were predominantly playing on people's fears and taking advantage of the gullible, and were not significantly different than "regular" food.7
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
This may be a little off subject but suggest to your friend that they put a light in their coop on a timer. Chickens lay less in winter because of the shorter daylight hours. By simply extending the hours with light most chickens will lay daily all year.
We chose not to light ours because it shortens the natural life cycle of the chicken. This is true of beef given rBst to force an Increase in milk production as well. A chicken left to lay on its natural cycle will lay a good 7-8yrs (our oldest layer is going on 9). When they are in light all winter to lay they will usually die around year 4-5 depending on the breed.
Cows will usually live and give milk for about 7-8yrs. When they're forced to produce more with hormones they usually die around year 3-4. And surviving to 4 is rare according to my dairy farming friend (she won't even drink their milk because she said it is so full of puss and junk). Blech! I live in ag country so a lot of people drink raw milk here.
The natural lifespan of a cow is 18-22 years, I thought. Why are these cows dying natural deaths at age 7-8?
You are correct. Sorry about that. I was typing while booking it on the treadmill and not thinking as I went. I should have proofread what I typed before posting. Not sure what I was thinking about as I typed it though (except that I had 7 minutes left on the treadmill when I wrote that answer. LOL. I must have been anxious to get done).
Alas, I am done working out so wanted to confirm you are correct about a cow's natural life span.
I admire your multi-tasking ability!0 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.2 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
Shouldn't make any difference at all if it's just the same cultivar grown conventional vs. organic.
But sometimes organic growers will focus on "heritage" or less common cultivars, and that can make a significant difference. Which has nothing to do with "organic" per se, of course, but it may be what people have in mind.1 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
On the most part, I agree with you. However, and this might just be where they're farmed, I truly can taste a difference between organic raw carrots and conventional carrots a good deal of the time. Conventional carrots can be bitter, whereas the organics are sweeter.
Again, this might be down to where they're farmed, and since I'm limited to where my local stores source their produce and I'm not really paying that much more (carrots are cheap, yo), for just this one veggie, I'll suck it up and buy organic.0 -
They might also be growing cultivars with better flavor but lower yield, knowing they can charge more for them. That might be why I like the taste of some organic fruits and vegetables better. For most I don't notice a difference.It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
Shouldn't make any difference at all if it's just the same cultivar grown conventional vs. organic.
But sometimes organic growers will focus on "heritage" or less common cultivars, and that can make a significant difference. Which has nothing to do with "organic" per se, of course, but it may be what people have in mind.
I'm not sure the technique makes no difference at all. I suppose it might in some cases. Or different processing/handling methods might make some difference (for example, the type of wax applied to apples or bell peppers.)
Fwiw, some organic produce also looks different from conventional produce, at least in the stores where I shop. For example, organic broccoli has longer stems than conventional. I have no idea why.1 -
I remember reading a post from someone who was complaining that the "organic" apples she'd bought didn't taste better, in fact, they were disappointing. Well, she'd bought Gingergold or some other apple that doesn't store well, and was eating it far out of season...
Some organic farmers also work to grow interesting, flavorful cultivars, which can make a flavor difference. And if you're buying at a local market you may be buying fresher vegetables than you're used to be eating, which can also make a flavor difference. But those factors aren't actually about being grown organically, they're about other decisions made by the farmer that often go along with organic practices, but are separate issues.3 -
Organic in my opinion is a waste of money and a scam. Shrugs.1
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I remember reading a post from someone who was complaining that the "organic" apples she'd bought didn't taste better, in fact, they were disappointing. Well, she'd bought Gingergold or some other apple that doesn't store well, and was eating it far out of season...
Some organic farmers also work to grow interesting, flavorful cultivars, which can make a flavor difference. And if you're buying at a local market you may be buying fresher vegetables than you're used to be eating, which can also make a flavor difference. But those factors aren't actually about being grown organically, they're about other decisions made by the farmer that often go along with organic practices, but are separate issues.
Agreed. It could be those factors that account for taste differences. I think more important than buying organic is buying what you like - at least, for nutritional reasons. Buying produce you like to eat means you're more likely to eat more of it, and that's good for health and weight loss. There may be social or environmental reasons to buy organic, but it was health reasons I was thinking of.0 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )3 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )
I was thinking about this, I read an article/watched a doco about how the reason people in their 50s and 60s today complain that a particular favourite meal doesn't taste the way it did when their mum made it, is because the ingredients have been bred to taste very different. The example they used was chicken and noodles, and they talked about how breeding chickens for size has completely changed the way they taste. I wish I could remember more, but it's just a random brain-snippet bobbing around.0 -
Some organic farmers also work to grow interesting, flavorful cultivars, which can make a flavor difference. And if you're buying at a local market you may be buying fresher vegetables than you're used to be eating, which can also make a flavor difference. But those factors aren't actually about being grown organically, they're about other decisions made by the farmer that often go along with organic practices, but are separate issues.
Yeah, exactly this.
The tomato, as mentioned above, is a great and one of the most extreme examples.
Many of the same farmers who find a niche selling to people who want to buy organic (and will pay more for it) are also able to justify the price by selling unusual and interesting/delicious varieties of veg and fruit. That's a huge part of why I garden and why I buy at local farms and the green market during the season. But to attribute this is "organic" is incorrect.4 -
Not worth breaking the bank, in my opinion0
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On the face of it, I have to say this doesn't sound terribly plausible. People's tastes change as they age. I eat and enjoy many foods now that I would have hated as a child. And then there are the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia affecting our recall.Alatariel75 wrote: »It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )
I was thinking about this, I read an article/watched a doco about how the reason people in their 50s and 60s today complain that a particular favourite meal doesn't taste the way it did when their mum made it, is because the ingredients have been bred to taste very different. The example they used was chicken and noodles, and they talked about how breeding chickens for size has completely changed the way they taste. I wish I could remember more, but it's just a random brain-snippet bobbing around.
For example, back around 1990 or so I knew a San Francisco native in his mid-50s who insisted that sourdough bread had gotten notably less sour since he was young. This was demonstrably false. There's only so sour you can make sourdough, as the taste comes from waste products of yeast and after a certain point the yeast just stops growing. There was no convincing him of that, though.0 -
I find that other than salt, inorganic compounds are not edible and therefore I don't consume them.
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It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )
No kidding. I'm a tomato aficionado and even the heirlooms I can get at the farmer's market are 'meh'. They grow the sweeter, milder varieties and I like a lot of bold tomato flavor and a good kick of acidity.
This year I'm growing a couple of varieties myself, just to see if I can get better flavor.2 -
It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )
No kidding. I'm a tomato aficionado and even the heirlooms I can get at the farmer's market are 'meh'. They grow the sweeter, milder varieties and I like a lot of bold tomato flavor and a good kick of acidity.
This year I'm growing a couple of varieties myself, just to see if I can get better flavor.
I grow my own tomatoes, too. Not all varieties you can grow at home are very good. The popular "Big Boy" and "Early Girl" are flavorless in the extreme, for example.
Tomatoes like to be babied. They are more work than my roses. I understand completely why they've been cultivated for hardiness and transport stability.2 -
I seek out organic for animal products, but mostly because they will go hand in hand with having higher welfare standards and I do care about the way the animal is treated. I don't mind the extra expense - try to limit my meat intake in general because I do feel that that's a bit better for the planet.
Also like to support local - but I don't really pay attention to organic otherwise. Will try it out for certain things - for example, my supermarket did these organic blueberries, that were only a little bit more expensive but tasted much better. Have a feeling however that the better taste was due to the type of blueberry chosen, not the fact that it was organic.
Some of the "organic" farms are pretty much the same as the other farms. Buying from small local farmers is a better bet for animal welfare.
Sometimes organic farms can even delay getting vet care for a sick animal because they can't keep it in their herd if it's been given certain medications.1 -
On the face of it, I have to say this doesn't sound terribly plausible. People's tastes change as they age. I eat and enjoy many foods now that I would have hated as a child. And then there are the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia affecting our recall.Alatariel75 wrote: »It makes me chuckle when I see people say organic tastes better.
I've seen at least three videos where lots of people have been tested tasting two different fruits, one organic one regular, and the probability they get it right is no better than chance.
In general you're right, but there actually is one food that has been demonstrated (scientifically) to have lost most of its flavor in modern agricultural practices due to the needs of mass production and stability for long-range transport: the tomato.
Yes, the delicious, beautiful tomato of 2017 does not taste anything like the delicious, beautiful tomato of 1957, or even 1987. At the moment the only real recourse is to grow your own or purchase organic heirloom tomatoes from a very honest farmer.
However, grocery store tomatoes should soon taste a lot better.
Better-Tasting Grocery Store Tomatoes Could Soon Be on Their Way (2015 American Chemical Society symposium talk)
Flavor Facelift for Supermarket Tomatoes (2017 news brief, American Chemical Society)
A Chemical Genetic Roadmap to Improved Tomato Flavor (2017 Science )
I was thinking about this, I read an article/watched a doco about how the reason people in their 50s and 60s today complain that a particular favourite meal doesn't taste the way it did when their mum made it, is because the ingredients have been bred to taste very different. The example they used was chicken and noodles, and they talked about how breeding chickens for size has completely changed the way they taste. I wish I could remember more, but it's just a random brain-snippet bobbing around.
For example, back around 1990 or so I knew a San Francisco native in his mid-50s who insisted that sourdough bread had gotten notably less sour since he was young. This was demonstrably false. There's only so sour you can make sourdough, as the taste comes from waste products of yeast and after a certain point the yeast just stops growing. There was no convincing him of that, though.
I think there's some truth, some nostalgia, depends on the specifics. My parents, for example, grew up eating older truly free-range chickens they had raised. The chickens ate mostly what they could forage and some feed supplement. Only ones that quit producing were ever eaten. Age of the bird and of course amount of exercise and the bird's diet definitely changes the taste so that makes sense in their case.
The sourdough thing definitely seems like nostalgia. And boy, do I wish I could get my hands on some of that 'substandard' sourdough. The stuff that passes for sourdough here barely tastes different than sandwich bread.1
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