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Sugar Addiction Myths
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
alcohol is a macronutrient1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
alcohol is a macronutrient
Thanks for the correction.0 -
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
The primary nutrient in many foods is protein.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
A macronutrient is a nutrient.6 -
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
Actually, the US gov seems to mainly use it much more specifically, to refer to calories from "added sugar and solid fat." That's on the MyPlate site and is in your links as well.
Worth noting that in this usage foods are not themselves "empty calories" but CONTAIN empty calories. Pizza is said to be a large contributor of empty calories (mostly because of cheese, I'd imagine), but of course an individual pizza might have lots of vegetables on it, olives, chicken is not an uncommon addition these days, there's also always pineapple! ;-)
Under this definition, added sugar would be empty calories even if desirable for a particular purpose, like fueling endurance activity, which is why I think it's reasonable to dispute the benefits of the designation.
I think it's interesting and worth noting that no one here discussing the usage actually seems ignorant about nutrition, do they? That's what I took exception to, the idea that if you didn't immediately recognize that added sugar should be considered "empty calories," always, that you must be ignorant of nutrition. I am quite interested in nutrition.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?1 -
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.5 -
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
5 -
Again, the phrase is consistently used to mean added sugars and solid fats, including in the links you gave, including at MyPlate.
So it would seem to apply to the sugar in gummy bears, whenever used, and to the sugar in gels used pretty much exclusively during endurance sports.
So empty calories doesn't actually mean "never worthwhile," which is one reason it's arguably not the greatest term for it (I don't actually see what's wrong with just saying "added sugars and solid fats" or even "calories from foods not particularly helpful in meeting nutrient goals."
But of course the real point some are trying to make here is that objecting to the term "empty calories" = not caring about nutrition or ignorant (sugar has energy being responded to with "haha, wow" as if that were in any way not accurate). Not caring for the term does not mean that one is ignorant about nutrition (quite the opposite in this discussion) or doesn't care about having a healthy diet. I actually haven't heard a reason why it's such a great term from the proponents.
Also, amusingly, many of those who defend it like to ignore the "solid fats" part of it.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
The narrowness of the concept is what makes it so unhelpful. I eat several foods that are rich in a particular macronutrient but don't contain many (if any) micronutrients. I don't consider them "empty" calories because they're helping me meet my nutritional goals.3 -
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.5 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?
Yes, in the term "empty calories" which are by definition are "calories derived from food containing no nutrients" or "a calorie whose source has little or no nutritional value", both of which, "nutrients" and "nutritional value" are understood to be referring to micronutrients.2 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?
Yes, in the term "empty calories" which are by definition are "calories derived from food containing no nutrients" or "a calorie whose source has little or no nutritional value", both of which, "nutrients" and "nutritional value" are understood to be referring to micronutrients.
Incorrect. The source must also be devoid of essential macronutrients. It cannot have essential amino acids or essential fatty acids.
4 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
that was not my question..
go back and read it, and try again ..0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term.
No, it basically means solid fats or added sugar. A food that contains lots of "empty calories" as used by those who use the term may ALSO have a decent amount of micronutrients, but probably high calories.
For example, pizza is said to be a significant contributor of "empty calories" to the US diet, even though many pizzas have vegetables on them (spinach pizza is quite popular where I am), and among other ingredients would contribute micros.1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?
Yes, in the term "empty calories" which are by definition are "calories derived from food containing no nutrients" or "a calorie whose source has little or no nutritional value", both of which, "nutrients" and "nutritional value" are understood to be referring to micronutrients.
Protein is not empty calories under the normal definition, nor are some kinds of fat.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
Your complaint seems to be against doctors and scientists. They're the ones who decided the term was a useful one to use in writing for each other, and for educating the public about how to eat. If they had picked some other term, we'd be using that term in our posts. Personally, though, I don't find it's a difficult concept, and I understand what they mean.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
Your complaint seems to be against doctors and scientists. They're the ones who decided the term was a useful one to use in writing for each other, and for educating the public about how to eat. If they had picked some other term, we'd be using that term in our posts. Personally, though, I don't find it's a difficult concept, and I understand what they mean.
I don't find it difficult. I find it to be less useful than an understanding of how a given food fits into an overall diet.
I am not convinced that doctors and scientists use this term when communicating with each other. Do some of them use it as a term when attempting to educate the general public on nutrition? Without a doubt. Lots of concepts are simplified when experts attempt to communicate with the public. Sometimes the result is helpful, sometimes it isn't.
If they want to use it, that's their business. Others are free to question it, discuss it, even reject it.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?
Yes, in the term "empty calories" which are by definition are "calories derived from food containing no nutrients" or "a calorie whose source has little or no nutritional value", both of which, "nutrients" and "nutritional value" are understood to be referring to micronutrients.
Protein is not empty calories under the normal definition, nor are some kinds of fat.
Right and both of which contain micronutrients.0 -
Apparently some people either skipped my post on page three of this thread, or are conveniently ignoring it.
There are micronutrients even in table sugar. They may be trace amounts, but they are there, also in many/most fats.
Quoting myself here...I would not consider plant-based sugars, plant-based fat, or animal-based fat empty calories. All contain trace amounts of minerals and vitamins.
For example, both olive oil and granulated sugars are processed from plants. Neither one has been synthesized by humans in a chemical laboratory. Both have trace amounts of minerals and vitamins as tested in the USDA laboratories.
In comparing 100 Calories of each item,
11.31g Oil, olive,
100 Cals, 1.13mg Ca, 0.63mg Fe, 1.13mg K, 2.26mg Na, 16.23mg Vit E, 0.068mg Vit K
Source: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/660
25.84g Sugars, granulated
100 Cals, 0.29mg Ca, 0.013mg Fe, 0.52mg K, 0.26mg Na, 0.003mg Zn, 0.005 mg Vit B2
Source: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/63198 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
I think the point is that the calories are empty in both cases. Sometimes all you need are calories. In that situation, empty calories are fine and welcome. If you aren't in need of calories or if you are in need of certain micronutrients, empty calories are a bad idea.
If you ordered a book and then received an empty box in the mail, that would be bad. If you need to move, you would want an empty box.
Empty boxes can be good or bad, but I have never once heard somebody say, "It's not an empty box because you have a box and boxes are useful so the fact that you have a box means it's not an empty box."
I hope I never do, to be honest.7 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
I think the point is that the calories are empty in both cases. Sometimes all you need are calories. In that situation, empty calories are fine and welcome. If you aren't in need of calories or if you are in need of certain micronutrients, empty calories are a bad idea.
If you ordered a book and then received an empty box in the mail, that would be bad. If you need to move, you would want an empty box.
Empty boxes can be good or bad, but I have never once heard somebody say, "It's not an empty box because you have a box and boxes are useful so the fact that you have a box means it's not an empty box."
I hope I never do, to be honest.
Your example makes perfect sense, it's just that you usually hear "empty calories" tossed around as something to avoid, where an empty box is just a tool.1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »emp·ty cal·o·ries
noun
calories derived from food containing no nutrients.
or Merriam Webster:
Definition of empty calories:
calories from food that supply energy but have little or no nutritional value
First Known Use: 1955
So this wouldn't be true of any food except for alcohol, I don't think. I've never seen a food with calories that was devoid of macronutrients.
Nutrient does not mean macronutrient. If it did the definition would have said "calories derived from food containing no macronutrients"
So macronutrients are not nutrients, really?
That's not what nvmomketo said. You like to twist things to try and make your point. Empty calories means that something is empty of micronutrients and that is a accepted use of the term. Whether or not you agree with the wording is your opinion.
Just like something that is has a low or high nutrient density. The nutrient in that scenario is understood and accepted to be referring to micronutrients. Whether you agree with the terminology or not.
Just micronutrients?
Yes, in the term "empty calories" which are by definition are "calories derived from food containing no nutrients" or "a calorie whose source has little or no nutritional value", both of which, "nutrients" and "nutritional value" are understood to be referring to micronutrients.
Protein is not empty calories under the normal definition, nor are some kinds of fat.
Right and both of which contain micronutrients.
I thought you said macronutrients did not count. Protein is a macronutrient.
It doesn't matter, since as I said before, the real way "empty calories" is used is to refer to added sugar or solid fats.
Also, the definition of micronutrients: "a chemical element or substance required in trace amounts for the normal growth and development of living organisms."
Calories are required (although not in trace amounts) for the normal growth and development of living organisms.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
I think the point is that the calories are empty in both cases. Sometimes all you need are calories. In that situation, empty calories are fine and welcome. If you aren't in need of calories or if you are in need of certain micronutrients, empty calories are a bad idea.
If you ordered a book and then received an empty box in the mail, that would be bad. If you need to move, you would want an empty box.
Empty boxes can be good or bad, but I have never once heard somebody say, "It's not an empty box because you have a box and boxes are useful so the fact that you have a box means it's not an empty box."
I hope I never do, to be honest.
Your example makes perfect sense, it's just that you usually hear "empty calories" tossed around as something to avoid, where an empty box is just a tool.
Given the fact 70% or so of the population is overweight or obese, for these individuals empty calories are something to avoid, or consume in very limited amounts. The 2% or so of the population who are athletes that need a bunch of calories to fuel their activities, sure consume some empty calories as appropriate. The other 25% or so of the population may be able to get by with 10-20% of caloric intake in "empty calories"..2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
I think the point is that the calories are empty in both cases. Sometimes all you need are calories. In that situation, empty calories are fine and welcome. If you aren't in need of calories or if you are in need of certain micronutrients, empty calories are a bad idea.
If you ordered a book and then received an empty box in the mail, that would be bad. If you need to move, you would want an empty box.
Empty boxes can be good or bad, but I have never once heard somebody say, "It's not an empty box because you have a box and boxes are useful so the fact that you have a box means it's not an empty box."
I hope I never do, to be honest.
Your example makes perfect sense, it's just that you usually hear "empty calories" tossed around as something to avoid, where an empty box is just a tool.
For a VAST majority of people, yes empty calories should be very limited.4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »nokanjaijo wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
No, they can be unneeded in one situation and needed in another. If you are, say, Michael Phelps in training, you can't possibly get enough calories to stay well nourished unless you eat a lot of high-calorie, low-fiber foods. If you are an average Westerner, you're in a different situation. For you, candy is "empty calories," nutritionally speaking. Similarly, glucose can be a lifesaver for a diabetic in insulin shock or a patient in a coma, and doctors don't refer to it as "empty calories" in those circumstances.Carlos_421 wrote: »
It's routinely used in the health care and nutritional fields. For example:I'm thinking the term "empty calories" was invented by the "clean eaters"...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871092/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24200654
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa14/dl/health-status-behaviors.pdf
There's a recognized, common understanding of what the phrase means - it's basically a short way to talk about foods that add unneeded extra calories but little else. Sometimes it's put in quotation marks. ETA: It's never used when the calories the food supplies are needed or helpful, only when the extra calories are unneeded and possibly detrimental.
So if I eat gummy bears pre or post workout they don't have empty calories because helpful but if I eat them during a movie they do have empty calories because unneeded?
They're the same gummy bears...either the calories are empty or not.
Sorry if that seems inconsistent to you, but your quarrel is with the doctors and scientists who use the phrase that way.
If whether or not a calorie is "empty" depends on the circumstances, it seems like it would be more helpful to address the circumstances and help people make informed choices instead of focusing on the foods themselves.
I think the point is that the calories are empty in both cases. Sometimes all you need are calories. In that situation, empty calories are fine and welcome. If you aren't in need of calories or if you are in need of certain micronutrients, empty calories are a bad idea.
If you ordered a book and then received an empty box in the mail, that would be bad. If you need to move, you would want an empty box.
Empty boxes can be good or bad, but I have never once heard somebody say, "It's not an empty box because you have a box and boxes are useful so the fact that you have a box means it's not an empty box."
I hope I never do, to be honest.
Your example makes perfect sense, it's just that you usually hear "empty calories" tossed around as something to avoid, where an empty box is just a tool.
Given the fact 70% or so of the population is overweight or obese, for these individuals empty calories are something to avoid, or consume in very limited amounts. The 2% or so of the population who are athletes that need a bunch of calories to fuel their activities, sure consume some empty calories as appropriate. The other 25% or so of the population may be able to get by with 10-20% of caloric intake in "empty calories"..
So we're back to judging on the context of an individual's diet and situation instead of just labeling foods. Pretty much exactly what I have been saying.
4
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