For the future: "Help I stalled posts"..read this

Options
13

Replies

  • inertiastrength
    inertiastrength Posts: 2,343 Member
    Options
    johnnylew wrote: »
    fascha wrote: »
    I'm not understanding some of the grief directed at the OP. Some people might find the device effective and would like to try it. What's the big deal if they do? Its their money and their weight loss and their lesson to learn if it doesn't work. Its not like he's advocating ACV pills on top of a super low calorie diet. It isn't dangerous, right? Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    I think most people have an issue with the substitution of one measuring gadget for another creating more confusion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and the real answer is thermodynamics. No way around that.

    This is the best post on the thread! YES - there are alot of variables in our journey's. So do not rely simply on one means. It is absolutely true that CICO is the only means to lose weight, lose fat. But even during a CICO deficit you can/will run into a situation where the mathematical formula doesnt show on weight scale. The body doesnt seem to respond like computer. But if you are in a CICO deficit, you will lose weight/fat. A BMI/Fat monitor may indicate as such even though the scale says no.

    It's still a good tool to use, but one I think requires even more time under your belt to rely on.
  • reedkaus
    reedkaus Posts: 250 Member
    Options
    Hey man, you're getting a lot of hate on this thread, but just wanted to say a couple of things. First, I think it's awesome you've found another way to track your progress. That being said, I think other people on here are getting caught up in the accuracy vs precision vs repeatability of these tools. In my experience, even though these handheld BIA's may not be the most accurate or precise tools, if used under similar conditions (hydration status, same time of the day, etc.), I think you'll find the results can be fairly repeatable.

    That's to say, who cares if the number is actually what your true BF % is (unless, OF COURSE, you're a competitor and it truly matters what you weight, what your BF is, etc). These tools can still be used to determine directionality of results when used in similar environments over time. YMMV, but when I've used these in the past, I've always taken three tests at a time, within mere minutes of one another, and have never really seen results with any major discrepancies. So if you use it the same way, in the same conditions, with the understanding maybe you aren't ACTUALLY 18% BF but more or less, it can be a tool to determine if you're moving in the right direction.

    Solid post, johnny, sorry you're catching so much hate
  • brittyn3
    brittyn3 Posts: 481 Member
    edited May 2017
    Options
    My personal experience with a handheld body fat% monitor...

    I had my body fat% tested when I was in the middle of my weight loss. I think it was 2 or 3 months later and 20 pounds lost, the body fat% showed only slightly lower. When I asked about it, the trainer who was administering the test said I likely lost mostly water weight, and I wasn't making progress like I thought I was. Aka he was full of *kitten and had no business saying that to me. At the time, I believe I was 150 pounds give or take at 5'5", I did not have 20 pounds of water weight to lose.

    I appreciate your effort to provide another solution to the scale, but these things are tricky and can lead to the same type of mania as a scale can. Thankfully, I was confident enough in myself and progress I knew the machine to be incorrect, but that could be derailing to someone just starting out.
  • JohnnyLowCarb
    JohnnyLowCarb Posts: 418 Member
    Options
    fascha wrote: »
    johnnylew wrote: »
    fascha wrote: »
    I'm not understanding some of the grief directed at the OP. Some people might find the device effective and would like to try it. What's the big deal if they do? Its their money and their weight loss and their lesson to learn if it doesn't work. Its not like he's advocating ACV pills on top of a super low calorie diet. It isn't dangerous, right? Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    I think most people have an issue with the substitution of one measuring gadget for another creating more confusion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and the real answer is thermodynamics. No way around that.

    This is the best post on the thread! YES - there are alot of variables in our journey's. So do not rely simply on one means. It is absolutely true that CICO is the only means to lose weight, lose fat. But even during a CICO deficit you can/will run into a situation where the mathematical formula doesnt show on weight scale. The body doesnt seem to respond like computer. But if you are in a CICO deficit, you will lose weight/fat. A BMI/Fat monitor may indicate as such even though the scale says no.

    It's still a good tool to use, but one I think requires even more time under your belt to rely on.

    @fascha True! I assumed that people who get discouraged do have some time under their belt and needed a moral "keep going - you can and are doing it" would want a suggestion on how to look at it a different way. Clearly the majority thinks otherwise.
  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,874 Member
    Options
    I see far more 'I've been at it 2 (or 3 or 4) weeks and am getting so discouraged!' posts here than similar types of posts from people who have significant time under their belt. That's why we typically do encourage people to slow down, refocus their expectations, and try to view their progress through the long-term lens.
  • JohnnyLowCarb
    JohnnyLowCarb Posts: 418 Member
    Options
    brittyn3 wrote: »
    My personal experience with a handheld fat% monitor...

    I had my body fat% tested when I was in the middle of my weight loss. I think it was 2 or 3 months later , 20 pounds lost the body fat% tested slightly lower. When I asked about it, the trainer who was administering the test said I probably had just lost water, and I wasn't making progress like I thought I was. Aka he was full of *kitten* and had no business saying that to me. At the time, I believe I was 150 pounds give or take at 5'5", I did not have 20 pounds of water weight to lose.

    I appreciate your effort to provide another solution to the scale, but these things are tricky and can lead to the same type of mania as a scale can. Thankfully, I was confident enough in myself and progress I knew the machine to be incorrect, but that could be derailing to someone just starting out.

    Awesome story @brittyn3 . Great take on what happens to some out there on their journeys to improving themselves. So glad to hear you kept at it and knew your body better than the trainer.
  • bagge72
    bagge72 Posts: 1,377 Member
    Options
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Options
    reedkaus wrote: »
    Hey man, you're getting a lot of hate on this thread, but just wanted to say a couple of things. First, I think it's awesome you've found another way to track your progress. That being said, I think other people on here are getting caught up in the accuracy vs precision vs repeatability of these tools. In my experience, even though these handheld BIA's may not be the most accurate or precise tools, if used under similar conditions (hydration status, same time of the day, etc.), I think you'll find the results can be fairly repeatable.

    That's to say, who cares if the number is actually what your true BF % is (unless, OF COURSE, you're a competitor and it truly matters what you weight, what your BF is, etc). These tools can still be used to determine directionality of results when used in similar environments over time. YMMV, but when I've used these in the past, I've always taken three tests at a time, within mere minutes of one another, and have never really seen results with any major discrepancies. So if you use it the same way, in the same conditions, with the understanding maybe you aren't ACTUALLY 18% BF but more or less, it can be a tool to determine if you're moving in the right direction.

    Solid post, johnny, sorry you're catching so much hate

    If that were the case then i never would have commented on this thread to begin with. Unfortunately, they aren't accurate to track trends overtime. :(

    You can read more here.

    Anecdotally, because i have one of these as well and it was money i wasted... mine will give me wild readings from 14% all the way up to 25% even given the same variables and factors.
  • JohnnyLowCarb
    JohnnyLowCarb Posts: 418 Member
    Options
    bagge72 wrote: »
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.

    I did say "it is what happened to me". I was stating that this helped me. I will most likely stay off these communities going forward, seems less of a place to share your story and what works for you than, give others a different way of looking at things, help motivation but more of a place to bash anyone who posts an opinion and is trying to help.
  • LowCarb4Me2016
    LowCarb4Me2016 Posts: 575 Member
    Options
    fascha wrote: »
    I'm not understanding some of the grief directed at the OP. Some people might find the device effective and would like to try it. What's the big deal if they do? Its their money and their weight loss and their lesson to learn if it doesn't work. Its not like he's advocating ACV pills on top of a super low calorie diet. It isn't dangerous, right? Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    I think most people have an issue with the substitution of one measuring gadget for another creating more confusion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and the real answer is thermodynamics. No way around that.

    What confusion would it create, exactly? Its another method of determining weight loss. There are a lot of variables which is why we tell newbies freaking out because they haven't lost any scale weight to take pictures or use a measuring tape. This is a more expensive option than pictures or a measuring tape but if someone wants to put out the $$, where is the harm? Its their money and their decision. I read it as the OP just presenting another option.

    Will you be fielding all of the "Help! My body fat % went up half a percentage overnight!!!! 1!" questions on the boards? We see enough of them all ready to suggest that some people do not find solace in devices like this. I did not read the OP as an opinion because it was not phrased as one.

    Nope. However, I presume I'm still allowed to offer an opinion on this one? Many people won't find this device helpful, so they won't buy them. Some people may find it helpful.
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    My scale does this (Withings scale) and I can assure you looking at the results in Trendweight, it would be far more frustrating to just follow the BF% with how much it varies day-to-day. You think scale results look wonky.
  • inertiastrength
    inertiastrength Posts: 2,343 Member
    Options
    johnnylew wrote: »
    bagge72 wrote: »
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.

    I did say "it is what happened to me". I was stating that this helped me. I will most likely stay off these communities going forward, seems less of a place to share your story and what works for you than, give others a different way of looking at things, help motivation but more of a place to bash anyone who posts an opinion and is trying to help.

    Nobody is bashing you.
  • LowCarb4Me2016
    LowCarb4Me2016 Posts: 575 Member
    Options
    bagge72 wrote: »
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.

    I don't know, it seemed pretty obvious to me that it was his opinion.
  • inertiastrength
    inertiastrength Posts: 2,343 Member
    Options
    If I took being ignorant personally and dipped rather than evaluating information presented to me for its validity I'd still be 240lbs.
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
    Options
    fascha wrote: »
    I'm not understanding some of the grief directed at the OP. Some people might find the device effective and would like to try it. What's the big deal if they do? Its their money and their weight loss and their lesson to learn if it doesn't work. Its not like he's advocating ACV pills on top of a super low calorie diet. It isn't dangerous, right? Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    I think most people have an issue with the substitution of one measuring gadget for another creating more confusion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and the real answer is thermodynamics. No way around that.

    What confusion would it create, exactly? Its another method of determining weight loss. There are a lot of variables which is why we tell newbies freaking out because they haven't lost any scale weight to take pictures or use a measuring tape. This is a more expensive option than pictures or a measuring tape but if someone wants to put out the $$, where is the harm? Its their money and their decision. I read it as the OP just presenting another option.

    Will you be fielding all of the "Help! My body fat % went up half a percentage overnight!!!! 1!" questions on the boards? We see enough of them all ready to suggest that some people do not find solace in devices like this. I did not read the OP as an opinion because it was not phrased as one.

    Nope. However, I presume I'm still allowed to offer an opinion on this one? Many people won't find this device helpful, so they won't buy them. Some people may find it helpful.

    Of course some people may find it useful. But knowing the pros and cons before they buy can only be a good thing. I just don't think everyone will find them useful, as the OP seems to be implying, and some may find them more stressful. Seeing the positives as well as the negatives is useful in a recommendation thread like this.
  • JohnnyLowCarb
    JohnnyLowCarb Posts: 418 Member
    Options
    fascha wrote: »
    I'm not understanding some of the grief directed at the OP. Some people might find the device effective and would like to try it. What's the big deal if they do? Its their money and their weight loss and their lesson to learn if it doesn't work. Its not like he's advocating ACV pills on top of a super low calorie diet. It isn't dangerous, right? Have the ones against the device tried it and found it didn't work? I could understand the protests, then.

    I think most people have an issue with the substitution of one measuring gadget for another creating more confusion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and the real answer is thermodynamics. No way around that.

    What confusion would it create, exactly? Its another method of determining weight loss. There are a lot of variables which is why we tell newbies freaking out because they haven't lost any scale weight to take pictures or use a measuring tape. This is a more expensive option than pictures or a measuring tape but if someone wants to put out the $$, where is the harm? Its their money and their decision. I read it as the OP just presenting another option.

    Will you be fielding all of the "Help! My body fat % went up half a percentage overnight!!!! 1!" questions on the boards? We see enough of them all ready to suggest that some people do not find solace in devices like this. I did not read the OP as an opinion because it was not phrased as one.

    Nope. However, I presume I'm still allowed to offer an opinion on this one? Many people won't find this device helpful, so they won't buy them. Some people may find it helpful.

    Of course some people may find it useful. But knowing the pros and cons before they buy can only be a good thing. I just don't think everyone will find them useful, as the OP seems to be implying, and some may find them more stressful. Seeing the positives as well as the negatives is useful in a recommendation thread like this.

    Great Point!
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Options
    fascha wrote: »
    johnnylew wrote: »
    bagge72 wrote: »
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.

    I did say "it is what happened to me". I was stating that this helped me. I will most likely stay off these communities going forward, seems less of a place to share your story and what works for you than, give others a different way of looking at things, help motivation but more of a place to bash anyone who posts an opinion and is trying to help.

    Nobody is bashing you.

    Agreed. OP- No one is saying "you're wrong and you should feel bad!" or "you're a terrible person OP how dare you share something you think is working for you!".

    I think the main thing is setting the record straight for newbies who haven't been there and don't know yet. If we were to blindly "support" (aka agree with) every post just for the sake of being nice there would be a lot more fatlogic on the boards than there is.

    The great thing about MFP is that members can (in general) be rest assured that the information they receive is factual.
  • JohnnyLowCarb
    JohnnyLowCarb Posts: 418 Member
    Options
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    fascha wrote: »
    johnnylew wrote: »
    bagge72 wrote: »
    To be clear, I have absolutely no problem, with somebody buying these things, and using them to aid in the process. My issue was the OP being worded as these $35 products being the end all to weight loss stalls, and that's kind of misleading. If it were worded as the OP saying this is what he used to help in his weight loss, but also said that it's his own experience, and his only then that's a different story.

    I did say "it is what happened to me". I was stating that this helped me. I will most likely stay off these communities going forward, seems less of a place to share your story and what works for you than, give others a different way of looking at things, help motivation but more of a place to bash anyone who posts an opinion and is trying to help.

    Nobody is bashing you.

    Agreed. OP- No one is saying "you're wrong and you should feel bad!" or "you're a terrible person OP how dare you share something you think is working for you!".

    I think the main thing is setting the record straight for newbies who haven't been there and don't know yet. If we were to blindly "support" (aka agree with) every post just for the sake of being nice there would be a lot more fatlogic on the boards than there is.

    The great thing about MFP is that members can (in general) be rest assured that the information they receive is factual.

    Awesome sounds like solid information and good advice!
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Options
    I work next to the Omron corporate office and talked with one of the design engineers about this same device. As it states in the instructions consistency is dependent on the user. The most accurate results are going to occur in the morning after a voiding. I've been using this for 2 years now and the results are within 1% of our DEXA scan.