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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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Obese people don't "use up" more healthcare. No, they shouldn't pay more. Seems like a bunch of fat shaming to me. Do your research, people.
I suggest you do yours. T2D, knee/hip/ankle injuries, etc are causatively linked, or highly correlated with above normal body weight/Body fat. And those are just the obvious ones. Liver and heart disease, certain cancers, also appear linked.6 -
Obese people don't "use up" more healthcare. No, they shouldn't pay more. Seems like a bunch of fat shaming to me. Do your research, people.
Obesity related medical spending is responsible for over 20% of US healthcare spending
http://www.healthycommunitieshealthyfuture.org/learn-the-facts/economic-costs-of-obesity/7 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Nothing wrong with an occasional doughnut, but someone saying doughnuts have nutritional value on a heath and fitness forum makes me want to wash my eyes out with bleach.
The quality of carbs and fats in the typical doughnut are very poor from a healthy diet standpoint.
Donuts have nutrients -- my body is capable of using the fat, protein, carbohydrates in them. In the context of a varied diet where nutritional needs are being met, I'm not sure what harm you think they're going to do to someone.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.
Excise tax like alcohol?0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.
Excise tax like alcohol?
I'm not a tax expert, I'm not sure if the food taxes where I live qualify as excise taxes or not. Even if they don't, I'm already paying taxes on food. Paying more for certain foods because other people can't control themselves is objectionable to me especially when the list of foods is bound to be random and heavily influenced by politics and food fads.
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.
Excise tax like alcohol?
I'm not a tax expert, I'm not sure if the food taxes where I live qualify as excise taxes or not. Even if they don't, I'm already paying taxes on food. Paying more for certain foods because other people can't control themselves is objectionable to me especially when the list of foods is bound to be random and heavily influenced by politics and food fads.
And ultimately, that is the issue is that any list that is created for taxation or banning will inevitably be arbitrary or random and thus will fail to meet the goal in both directions. By penalizing things inadvertently and failing to penalize the desired behavior.
If you want a case study, look at the California/New York "Assault weapons" bans. It doesn't matter which side of the matter you sit, they're remarkable failures. Every year, The criteria for restriction changes. And every year, usually before the final bill is signed, loopholes or workarounds are identified, implemented, and marketed. For those inclined to work within the law they vary from minor to major inconvenience. For those who wish to break the law, they provide no impediment whatsoever.0 -
Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.0
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TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
In the US, most fast food chains are domestically based. They aren't imports or exports. What are you talking about?0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
So we should penalize what?
Assembly line food production methods?
Standardization of food production?
Speedy turnaround between order and delivery?
1 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
Have Fast Food restaurants declared sovereignty?6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
So we should penalize what?
Assembly line food production methods?
Standardization of food production?
Speedy turnaround between order and delivery?
this.
People pick on fast food way too much IMO. Most fast food places have (1) calorie info clearly available, and (2) plenty of lower calorie choices. (FYI- lower calorie choice really is as simple as buying just 1 burger and maybe a value fry off the $1 menu or the smaller size of chicken nuggets instead of the '5 for 5' or 'grande meal' or whatever). So much easier to eat somewhat reasonable calories than a restaurant or pub.4 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
How could anyone, in the age of the smart phone in nearly everyone's hands not know it's a bad idea to consume the majority of your meals at fast food restaurants?
Make people pay the consequences of their choices and stop trying to blame others.
I think that general policy would address a whole host of bad choices that people make.
If we bail out bankers for making poor banking choices, will bankers ever learn? - Probably not.
If we bail out people who make poor health choices, will they ever learn? - Probably not.
We can look at a whole host of issues and see where the bailouts do not result in changes in behavior.
Passing risk and consequences to others does little to educate those who take the risks.1 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »Maybe a Tariff should be placed on Fast Food Restaurants.
Have Fast Food restaurants declared sovereignty?
Duh. Burger KING. What more evidence do you need??9 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.
Excise tax like alcohol?
I'm not a tax expert, I'm not sure if the food taxes where I live qualify as excise taxes or not. Even if they don't, I'm already paying taxes on food. Paying more for certain foods because other people can't control themselves is objectionable to me especially when the list of foods is bound to be random and heavily influenced by politics and food fads.
Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/excise-tax
You typically don't see the excise tax on alcohol as it is included in the price. They tax you see at the store is the local and/or state tax.
https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/2013/44854
In 2012, the federal government collected $9.7 billion in revenue from excise taxes on distilled spirits, beer, and wine. The different alcoholic beverages are taxed at different rates. ... The current excise tax levied on those spirits, $13.50 per proof gallon, translates to about 21 cents per ounce of alcohol.
0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Nothing wrong with an occasional doughnut, but someone saying doughnuts have nutritional value on a heath and fitness forum makes me want to wash my eyes out with bleach.
The quality of carbs and fats in the typical doughnut are very poor from a healthy diet standpoint.
Donuts have nutrients -- my body is capable of using the fat, protein, carbohydrates in them. In the context of a varied diet where nutritional needs are being met, I'm not sure what harm you think they're going to do to someone.
Sure donuts have nutrients, although the fats, proteins and carbs in them are the "bottom feeders" in that the doughnut is very nutrient poor for the calories in the product.
Understand all food has nutrients. However in the context of a heath and fitness site where many confused people come to learn about nutrition, IMO saying an item has "nutrients" to many this would mean it's nutritious (defined as: nourishing; efficient as food) which I'm sure we can all agree it's not.
As I said earlier, nothing wrong with an occasional donut. I read an article by a Phd in nutrition who stated a 12 oz can of regular pop every couple weeks would be reasonable consumption for a typical individual. I'm guessing the same would apply to donuts. Have a feeling most who consume donuts do so much more frequently than 1 every couple weeks.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Because it's a societal problem? Just like everyone pays taxes on alcohol although the vast majority drink it without issue.
People already pay taxes on food. We're talking about singling out specific foods for extra taxes based on nebulous criteria.
Excise tax like alcohol?
I'm not a tax expert, I'm not sure if the food taxes where I live qualify as excise taxes or not. Even if they don't, I'm already paying taxes on food. Paying more for certain foods because other people can't control themselves is objectionable to me especially when the list of foods is bound to be random and heavily influenced by politics and food fads.
Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/excise-tax
You typically don't see the excise tax on alcohol as it is included in the price. They tax you see at the store is the local and/or state tax.
https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/2013/44854
In 2012, the federal government collected $9.7 billion in revenue from excise taxes on distilled spirits, beer, and wine. The different alcoholic beverages are taxed at different rates. ... The current excise tax levied on those spirits, $13.50 per proof gallon, translates to about 21 cents per ounce of alcohol.
Okay, I think I understand. Yes, I'm opposed to excise taxes on specific food items if the reasoning is to discourage people from choosing that food.
But it seems like excise taxes can be levied for all types of reasons -- surely nobody tries to explain the excise tax on truck highway usage as a way to discourage commerce. There are other justifications that are used, presumably, for that tax. There is a long history of taxing alcohol in the US so I'd want to see some better evidence before assuming the initial justification was to discourage alcohol use instead of being, say, a tax levied on an optional item for which there was high demand and offered a reliable revenue stream for the government.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Nothing wrong with an occasional doughnut, but someone saying doughnuts have nutritional value on a heath and fitness forum makes me want to wash my eyes out with bleach.
The quality of carbs and fats in the typical doughnut are very poor from a healthy diet standpoint.
Donuts have nutrients -- my body is capable of using the fat, protein, carbohydrates in them. In the context of a varied diet where nutritional needs are being met, I'm not sure what harm you think they're going to do to someone.
Sure donuts have nutrients, although the fats, proteins and carbs in them are the "bottom feeders" in that the doughnut is very nutrient poor for the calories in the product.
Understand all food has nutrients. However in the context of a heath and fitness site where many confused people come to learn about nutrition, IMO saying an item has "nutrients" to many this would mean it's nutritious (defined as: nourishing; efficient as food) which I'm sure we can all agree it's not.
As I said earlier, nothing wrong with an occasional donut. I read an article by a Phd in nutrition who stated a 12 oz can of regular pop every couple weeks would be reasonable consumption for a typical individual. I'm guessing the same would apply to donuts. Have a feeling most who consume donuts do so much more frequently than 1 every couple weeks.
I don't have access to any data on donut consumption that would validate your feelings on the subject, so I'm not sure.
I don't consider that a healthy diet has to be devoid of all food items that don't meet your standard for "nutritious" (I understand you aren't arguing this either), so if the argument is that all such items should be taxed additionally to discourage consumption, I disagree. That there is a level at which people can consume donuts (or soda or heavy cream or gummy bears) that allows one to maintain a healthy weight is sufficient for me. I think we should focus on the real driver of obesity and that's consuming excess calories.
When I initially wrote that donuts had nutrients, it was in the context of responding to someone who declared donuts had "no nutritional value." That's simply not true and that is what I was correct, not making the argument that the donut is a nutritional powerhouse (I don't think it has to be in order to justify why I think donut shops shouldn't be targeted with additional tax laws).1 -
I think the only objective way to do this is to require a certain nutrient density in food to avoid taxes. I don't think it's really a useful thing to do, though, and I can't imagine it having any impact on obesity.3
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