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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
"Argument" is used in the sense of "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong," not like a fight. You're making an argument that we should place a tax on certain foods.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Only if we charge more for things that reduce calorie output, like computers, cars, and cell phones. Technology is a major contributor to obesity.
Of course taxing technology is as silly as taxing foods perceived as fattening. People will simply pay more for the things they want. There are better ways to modify behavior besides stealing more money from citizens, such as ad campaigns, school programs, and asking food makers to shrink portion sizes (which they'll gladly do).
Yeah I agree, more should be done in forms of advertisement and school programmes etc ..1 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
I am not sure what a bad carbohydrate is and I've got no problems with sugar.
When I gained my extra weight, donuts had nothing to do with it because I'm vegan and had no access to vegan donuts. Now that I'm in a normal weight range, I sometimes have a donut because there are now vegan ones sold in the city that I live. They're actually pretty awesome after a good 15-mile run.
Look, just saying something is junk isn't enough to demonstrate that it is. They have macronutrients, vitamins, and minerals. You said they have no nutritional value and that just isn't true. They have nutrients. So why are they junk?2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary? Please provide criteria or a list? Preferably an exhaustive/complete one. Make sure that it clearly defines what foods are good and which ones are bad.
Ideally it should ensure that apple juice and apple sauce aren't taxed but Dark Chocolate is.
It should also have a means to distinguish between "good" and "bad" fruit snacks.
Its common sense isn’t it, the very fact food contains sugar decides that it’s sugary no?
Apple juice and apple sauce contain sugar. So they'd be taxed under your plan?1 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
You're speaking subjectively. This isn't very effective when attempting to persuade others. If you believe so strongly then setup a "swear jar" and donate $1 for every strawberry, donut, etc. Just leave the rest of the world alone.2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
What are 'bad' carbs? Ones who stay out late and don't do their homework?!?
The word “bad carbs” is a genuine phrase used, it just means carbs that don’t provide many health benefits like crisps and chips ...
Carbohydrates, in and of themselves, don't provide health benefits other than energy. There is no difference between a bad carbohydrate and a good carbohydrate, although foods with carbohydrates contain different micronutrients.
When you talk about carbohydrates that provide health benefits, what exactly are you talking about?
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Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
Food is inanimate, it's incapable of making that decision. Humans would have to make the decisions.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
I am not sure what a bad carbohydrate is and I've got no problems with sugar.
When I gained my extra weight, donuts had nothing to do with it because I'm vegan and had no access to vegan donuts. Now that I'm in a normal weight range, I sometimes have a donut because there are now vegan ones sold in the city that I live. They're actually pretty awesome after a good 15-mile run.
Look, just saying something is junk isn't enough to demonstrate that it is. They have macronutrients, vitamins, and minerals. You said they have no nutritional value and that just isn't true. They have nutrients. So why are they junk?
I’m using a donut as an example, of course there will be healthy version of that etc. It in general .. the normal really sugary donuts you get is what I’m referring too. My point is just that if these types of foods which are very bad for you were bumped up in price, but say the healthier version was lowered in price .. it would encourage people not to go for unhealthy options .. every food item has nutrients but there are a lot of clearly unhealthy foods where it’s just pure junk5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary? Please provide criteria or a list? Preferably an exhaustive/complete one. Make sure that it clearly defines what foods are good and which ones are bad.
Ideally it should ensure that apple juice and apple sauce aren't taxed but Dark Chocolate is.
It should also have a means to distinguish between "good" and "bad" fruit snacks.
Its common sense isn’t it, the very fact food contains sugar decides that it’s sugary no?
Apple juice and apple sauce contain sugar. So they'd be taxed under your plan?
Products like that should be made with less sugar and yes I would happily see the really high sugar foods like those go up in price4 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary? Please provide criteria or a list? Preferably an exhaustive/complete one. Make sure that it clearly defines what foods are good and which ones are bad.
Ideally it should ensure that apple juice and apple sauce aren't taxed but Dark Chocolate is.
It should also have a means to distinguish between "good" and "bad" fruit snacks.
Its common sense isn’t it, the very fact food contains sugar decides that it’s sugary no?
Apple juice and apple sauce contain sugar. So they'd be taxed under your plan?
Products like that should be made with less sugar and yes I would happily see the really high sugar foods like those go up in price
So you propose taxing high sugar varieties of apple and discounting low sugar varietals?
RUSRS?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
What are 'bad' carbs? Ones who stay out late and don't do their homework?!?
The word “bad carbs” is a genuine phrase used, it just means carbs that don’t provide many health benefits like crisps and chips ...
Carbohydrates, in and of themselves, don't provide health benefits other than energy. There is no difference between a bad carbohydrate and a good carbohydrate, although foods with carbohydrates contain different micronutrients.
When you talk about carbohydrates that provide health benefits, what exactly are you talking about?
So I’m thinking of foods like sweet potatoe, rice, whole grain pasta as carbohydrates that have health benefits, and then the ones which don’t contain any health benefits are (in my eyes) things like chips and crisps and donuts etc .. I guess how you cook food can really determine if it’s good or bad4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
Food is inanimate, it's incapable of making that decision. Humans would have to make the decisions.
This is going away from the point I’m making. All I’m saying is junk food should be more expensive so people will learn to eat in moderation
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Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
I am not sure what a bad carbohydrate is and I've got no problems with sugar.
When I gained my extra weight, donuts had nothing to do with it because I'm vegan and had no access to vegan donuts. Now that I'm in a normal weight range, I sometimes have a donut because there are now vegan ones sold in the city that I live. They're actually pretty awesome after a good 15-mile run.
Look, just saying something is junk isn't enough to demonstrate that it is. They have macronutrients, vitamins, and minerals. You said they have no nutritional value and that just isn't true. They have nutrients. So why are they junk?
I’m using a donut as an example, of course there will be healthy version of that etc. It in general .. the normal really sugary donuts you get is what I’m referring too. My point is just that if these types of foods which are very bad for you were bumped up in price, but say the healthier version was lowered in price .. it would encourage people not to go for unhealthy options .. every food item has nutrients but there are a lot of clearly unhealthy foods where it’s just pure junk
I am talking about normal donuts. Normal donuts have protein, fat, carbohydrates, and vitamins. I sometimes get vegan donuts because I'm personally a vegan, but they're made with the normal amount of sugar, still fried, etc. They aren't substantially different than the donuts a non-vegan would buy at the same shop except for the absence of animal ingredients.
I'm confused by what you mean -- if everything has nutrients, what does it mean for a food to be "pure junk" or "clearly unhealthy"?
My body can use the macro- and micronutrients in a donut. The fact that it's a donut doesn't make those nutrients less available to my body.
2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
What are 'bad' carbs? Ones who stay out late and don't do their homework?!?
The word “bad carbs” is a genuine phrase used, it just means carbs that don’t provide many health benefits like crisps and chips ...
Carbohydrates, in and of themselves, don't provide health benefits other than energy. There is no difference between a bad carbohydrate and a good carbohydrate, although foods with carbohydrates contain different micronutrients.
When you talk about carbohydrates that provide health benefits, what exactly are you talking about?
So I’m thinking of foods like sweet potatoe, rice, whole grain pasta as carbohydrates that have health benefits, and then the ones which don’t contain any health benefits are (in my eyes) things like chips and crisps and donuts etc .. I guess how you cook food can really determine if it’s good or bad
What about whole grain baked potato chips? Are they really that different from whole grain pasta?2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary? Please provide criteria or a list? Preferably an exhaustive/complete one. Make sure that it clearly defines what foods are good and which ones are bad.
Ideally it should ensure that apple juice and apple sauce aren't taxed but Dark Chocolate is.
It should also have a means to distinguish between "good" and "bad" fruit snacks.
Its common sense isn’t it, the very fact food contains sugar decides that it’s sugary no?
Apple juice and apple sauce contain sugar. So they'd be taxed under your plan?
Products like that should be made with less sugar and yes I would happily see the really high sugar foods like those go up in price
Apple juice and apple sauce have the sugar that is present in apples. How would you reduce the sugar in them? Yes, you can make versions with artificial sugar, but not everyone wants these or can tolerate them.
Are you taxing apples too? After all, the sugar in apple juice and apple sauce is just the sugar that is already in apples. Does a tax on fruit really help the public? Or is it just about singling about a component in food (sugar) that you're uncomfortable with?3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
Food is inanimate, it's incapable of making that decision. Humans would have to make the decisions.
This is going away from the point I’m making. All I’m saying is junk food should be more expensive so people will learn to eat in moderation
And yet you're dancing away from providing a meaningful or useful definition of junk food so that we can have a reasoned discussion on the subject.
Probably because you don't actually know what you mean when you say junk food. but you don't know that you don't know what you mean, so you expect someone to help you out.3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
Food is inanimate, it's incapable of making that decision. Humans would have to make the decisions.
This is going away from the point I’m making. All I’m saying is junk food should be more expensive so people will learn to eat in moderation
Higher taxes have not slowed the consumption of soft drinks, alcohol, etc. All the taxes have done is moved the purchase points from an area that has high taxes to an area that has low taxes. And again, you still have not provided a definition of junk food (or who would come up with said definition).4 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
The big problem with this is that there are no specific foods that lead to obesity - it is overall excess consumption that leads to obesity... and there is a 100 page thread someplace on here about trying to tax junk food out of existence - you should do a search for it.
There are lots of specific foods that can lead to obesity, like full fat fizzy drinks, any chocolate bar, cake, full fat ice creams, most takeaways etc the list could go on. If you increase the prices of these items it will make people eat them in moderation because they just won’t be able to afford it
No there are not - any person on this planet can eat any or all of the foods that you mention and as long as they maintain a calorie deficit they will lose weight. The ONLY thing that causes obesity is excess consumption of calories - doesn't matter if those calories come from 'healthy' foods or from 'junk' food. There are numerous examples on these boards of people who got fat from eating 'healthy' foods.
Ah ok that makes sense, I guess the problem then is purely down to the person who chooses to eat a large/regular amount of unhealthy food.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it's the dose. A serving of chocolate is fine for health. Eating sweet potatoes or broccoli in excess is bad for my health.
Food can be unhealthy though, in moderation it’s ok for some people but for example a donut is unhealthy, there is no nutritional value in it what so ever .. but yes I agree that it’s all about how much of certain foods you eat that make it become more unhealthy
Donuts have nutritional value. The donuts I eat contain carbohydrates, fat, and protein, macronutrients my body can use for energy. They're typically made with enriched flour, which is going to provide vitamins and minerals, like iron and some B vitamins.
Donuts are junk .. they are full of bad carbs and sugar... that’s just a normal fact of life. Maybe people get theirselves obese because they kid themselves into thinking things like that
What are 'bad' carbs? Ones who stay out late and don't do their homework?!?
The word “bad carbs” is a genuine phrase used, it just means carbs that don’t provide many health benefits like crisps and chips ...
Carbohydrates, in and of themselves, don't provide health benefits other than energy. There is no difference between a bad carbohydrate and a good carbohydrate, although foods with carbohydrates contain different micronutrients.
When you talk about carbohydrates that provide health benefits, what exactly are you talking about?
So I’m thinking of foods like sweet potatoe, rice, whole grain pasta as carbohydrates that have health benefits, and then the ones which don’t contain any health benefits are (in my eyes) things like chips and crisps and donuts etc .. I guess how you cook food can really determine if it’s good or bad
The benefit in those foods isn't from the carbohydrates, they're from other nutrients that are in the food.
Again, "bad carbohydrate" isn't a thing. There are foods with different kinds and amounts of micronutrients. This seems to be the source of your confusion.
The carbohydrates in a sweet potato or bowl of rice aren't different from the carbohydrates in a donut. They just have different things included with them.2 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
Food is inanimate, it's incapable of making that decision. Humans would have to make the decisions.
This is going away from the point I’m making. All I’m saying is junk food should be more expensive so people will learn to eat in moderation
Yes, but to make that point, you have to explain who will decide what "junk food" is. Is it you? Because you're arguing that people should be paying more for apples because they have sugar in them.1 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
I think that instead of charging the person more, they should increase the costs of the foods which lead to obesity .. for example .. a bar of chocolate should cost a lot more and crisps and fizzy drinks etc, this would then hopefully make people cut down purely because it’s getting too expensive. They should make health foods cheaper to also encourage people to buy them
My weight is normal. Why should I pay more for my chocolate just because some other people weigh more?
I didn't get overweight because of chocolate and soda. I was overweight because I ate too much of the foods I cooked at home, everyday foods like rice, potatoes, pasta, and vegetables. Someone who wants to eat more than their body can use is going to do it on a wide variety of foods.
Yeah I see your point there, my weight is normal as well but I guess for me, if chocolate was more expensive I would be less inclined to buy some at the shop so it would end up benefiting me in the long run.
Is the argument that we should implement this tax just because it would benefit you personally?
No, this “debate” not argument is about should overweight people should have to pay more and my view is that maybe junk food and sugary products should go up in price so they are less likely to be binged upon
Who decides what food is junk and what food is sugary?
Our betters...obviously.
Or the food itself ....
You're speaking subjectively. This isn't very effective when attempting to persuade others. If you believe so strongly then setup a "swear jar" and donate $1 for every strawberry, donut, etc. Just leave the rest of the world alone.
There is already sugar tax being implemented in the UK on all fizzy drinks with added sugar so it’s kind of already happening .. if it was such a bad idea then it wouldn’t have even been considered5
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