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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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annaskiski wrote: »I'm feeling very opinionated lately - here's another one. In my opinion, if you don't count calories and believe that counting is obsessive or a moral failure, belittling people on a calorie counting forum for, well, counting, is trolling.
How about someone who says that calorie counting is too inexact a science, and then goes on to say that IF is better (ya know, 'cause thats MORE exact). I mean, I like IF for me (with calorie counting), but seriously?
(referring to bizarre 'CICO, still skeptical' thread)
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Really, if you can't learn to listen to your body and intuitively eat just the amount of food you need to maintain there's something wrong with your relationship with food." types of comments in terms of trolling.
But, you're right, those comments annoy the hell out of me because ANY way of managing energy balance is inexact and relies on trial and error, so why post on a calorie counting site that because the CICO calculations can't be spot on the method isn't valid? Especially because it's usually in defense of some type of restrictive eating plan that that works for THEM, but wouldn't suit most people.
CICO works because it is a balance and balance often works best with averages. No, there is no way you can tell exactly how many calories are in that Granny Smith apple because different growing conditions (even apples from 2 trees growing side by side) will produce an apple that has a little more water or a little more sugar but the average calorie count per 100 grams for a granny smith will be good enough to figure a balance. Same thing for exercise. One day you may burn 200 calories for a 1 mile run and the next day you may burn 210.1 -
annaskiski wrote: »I'm feeling very opinionated lately - here's another one. In my opinion, if you don't count calories and believe that counting is obsessive or a moral failure, belittling people on a calorie counting forum for, well, counting, is trolling.
How about someone who says that calorie counting is too inexact a science, and then goes on to say that IF is better (ya know, 'cause thats MORE exact). I mean, I like IF for me (with calorie counting), but seriously?
(referring to bizarre 'CICO, still skeptical' thread)
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Really, if you can't learn to listen to your body and intuitively eat just the amount of food you need to maintain there's something wrong with your relationship with food." types of comments in terms of trolling.
But, you're right, those comments annoy the hell out of me because ANY way of managing energy balance is inexact and relies on trial and error, so why post on a calorie counting site that because the CICO calculations can't be spot on the method isn't valid? Especially because it's usually in defense of some type of restrictive eating plan that that works for THEM, but wouldn't suit most people.
Yup.
And I've also seen it occasionally from people whose secret subtext seemed to be "too inexact to work, which is why I can't lose weight, because it's not even worth trying, boo-hoo, whatever can I do?!?!"
Or maybe I'm just bad at reading secret subtexts.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »scottiehexter wrote: »My unpopular idea is that going vegetarian or vegan can be healthier for you, the animal kingdom, and the planet. I don't worry about getting the diseases that my parents had, since my lifestyle is entirely different. Neither of them were overweight, but my dad died of pancreatic cancer and my mom from Alzheimer's and a broken hip -- they both consumed animal products. I think it is easier to maintain a healthy weight by avoiding animal products and GMOs.
Here's a few vegan foods:
Oreos
Nutter Butter cookies
Cracker Jacks
Doritos
Kool Aid
Swedish Fish
Sour Patch Kids
Red Bull energy drink
Fritos
Pop Tarts
Pringles
So if I construct my diet exclusively of the above foods, it will be easier to maintain a healthy weight than eating a balanced diet which includes lean meats, fish and eggs along with whole grains, fruits and vegetables? And I'll be disease free and live longer and not have broken hips and Alzheimers?
Magical.
Wait, what? I thought Swedish Fish contained gelatin?!!?
Signed,
Missing the point entirely
No gelatin!
(But they're still weirdly high in calories -- 150 for just *seven fish*!).
7? that should be a crime.2 -
annaskiski wrote: »I'm feeling very opinionated lately - here's another one. In my opinion, if you don't count calories and believe that counting is obsessive or a moral failure, belittling people on a calorie counting forum for, well, counting, is trolling.
How about someone who says that calorie counting is too inexact a science, and then goes on to say that IF is better (ya know, 'cause thats MORE exact). I mean, I like IF for me (with calorie counting), but seriously?
(referring to bizarre 'CICO, still skeptical' thread)
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Really, if you can't learn to listen to your body and intuitively eat just the amount of food you need to maintain there's something wrong with your relationship with food." types of comments in terms of trolling.
But, you're right, those comments annoy the hell out of me because ANY way of managing energy balance is inexact and relies on trial and error, so why post on a calorie counting site that because the CICO calculations can't be spot on the method isn't valid? Especially because it's usually in defense of some type of restrictive eating plan that that works for THEM, but wouldn't suit most people.
Yup.
And I've also seen it occasionally from people whose secret subtext seemed to be "too inexact to work, which is why I can't lose weight, because it's not even worth trying, boo-hoo, whatever can I do?!?!"
Or maybe I'm just bad at reading secret subtexts.
Agreed. I have to think many who come to these boards who tend to major in the minors, looking for reasons why a simple yet effective energy balance equation is invalidated because they can't measure one side or the other precisely to the tenth of a calorie - is likely looking for a reason to explain why they've not been successful at weight loss, or why it's not worth trying.
And just to be clear - CICO is simple. That doesn't mean to imply that weight loss is easy. But finally realizing that it is just a math equation, and a simple one at that, is liberating for so many people who were convinced that they had to do something special or super restrictive in order to be successful and therefore didn't think it was worth trying in the first place.15 -
WinoGelato wrote: »annaskiski wrote: »I'm feeling very opinionated lately - here's another one. In my opinion, if you don't count calories and believe that counting is obsessive or a moral failure, belittling people on a calorie counting forum for, well, counting, is trolling.
How about someone who says that calorie counting is too inexact a science, and then goes on to say that IF is better (ya know, 'cause thats MORE exact). I mean, I like IF for me (with calorie counting), but seriously?
(referring to bizarre 'CICO, still skeptical' thread)
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Really, if you can't learn to listen to your body and intuitively eat just the amount of food you need to maintain there's something wrong with your relationship with food." types of comments in terms of trolling.
But, you're right, those comments annoy the hell out of me because ANY way of managing energy balance is inexact and relies on trial and error, so why post on a calorie counting site that because the CICO calculations can't be spot on the method isn't valid? Especially because it's usually in defense of some type of restrictive eating plan that that works for THEM, but wouldn't suit most people.
Yup.
And I've also seen it occasionally from people whose secret subtext seemed to be "too inexact to work, which is why I can't lose weight, because it's not even worth trying, boo-hoo, whatever can I do?!?!"
Or maybe I'm just bad at reading secret subtexts.
Agreed. I have to think many who come to these boards who tend to major in the minors, looking for reasons why a simple yet effective energy balance equation is invalidated because they can't measure one side or the other precisely to the tenth of a calorie - is likely looking for a reason to explain why they've not been successful at weight loss, or why it's not worth trying.
And just to be clear - CICO is simple. That doesn't mean to imply that weight loss is easy. But finally realizing that it is just a math equation, and a simple one at that, is liberating for so many people who were convinced that they had to do something special or super restrictive in order to be successful and therefore didn't think it was worth trying in the first place.
There are those posters who really are not looking for an answer, they simply want to find a kindred spirit to listen to them and not resolve the underlying issue.
I always hold hope that I'll find a post months later with them realizing that they were in a constant cycle of excuse building and shifted towards personal responsibility.
Principles are fundamentally easy. It's the application of these principles that are hard.17 -
I feel so accomplished reading all 202pgs! I don't even have an unpopular opinion to add, so now what to read? Are we planning on starting another chaptered thread soon...perhaps a sequel?...I must know how cake culture and chili wars end
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Peace occurs when we all dive into a chilli chocolate cheesecake accompanied by a delicious red wine or amber ale. (Non alcoholic drinks always available)
That is my dream. Oh and whipped cream.
Cheers, h.13 -
But... but culture! Could there be a symphony playing in the background while someone recites a poem on the virtues of yogurt? That should be enough!6
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Well yogurt certainly has culture so we have that covered.
We could also add an artist doing an on site mural of the festivities. Everyone at goal weight of course.
Cheers, h.4 -
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Well that really could get interesting @lemurcat12.
We could do yogurt art on top of the cheese cakes as topping.
Cheers, h.2 -
Ooh, ooh, I can dig up interesting archaeological factoids about yoghurt! And other stuff.5
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I'll give a pass to people with pre-existing psychological problems around food and eating, especially if they're in therapy for same, but:
I think people are asking for trouble if they start refusing to go to friends' homes for events involving food because they don't know the calories, or refusing to go to restaurants with friends because they don't know what to order.
Can it be a brief transitional strategy? Maybe. Do you have to accept every invitation, if they're frequent/routine? No.
But if isolation from family/friends and food celebrations becomes an essential element of one's healthy-weight lifestyle, that's not life balance.22 -
Yeah. There are dishes I won't order because I know they'll be calorie bombs and I can't even find something to compare them to in the database. There's a middle-eastern restaurant that does a deep-fried laffa, about the size of a calzone, stuffed with hard eggs and veggies and chickpeas and served in a sauce that has oil gleaming in it. And I know better than to order pasta when it comes in a salad bowl.
BUT I'll check the menu beforehand and figure out something I can have and fit into my plan. I don't like taking leftovers home; they rarely taste good the next day. That pasta restaurant? Also does personal thin-crust pizzas and soups. The middle-eastern restaurant offers shakshuka. And if I'm on a maintenance break, then maybe I'll splurge a bit, but it's nice to do a little research and have a few go-tos I can enjoy whenever.5 -
I'll give a pass to people with pre-existing psychological problems around food and eating, especially if they're in therapy for same, but:
I think people are asking for trouble if they start refusing to go to friends' homes for events involving food because they don't know the calories, or refusing to go to restaurants with friends because they don't know what to order.
Can it be a brief transitional strategy? Maybe. Do you have to accept every invitation, if they're frequent/routine? No.
But if isolation from family/friends and food celebrations becomes an essential element of one's healthy-weight lifestyle, that's not life balance.
Agreed.
Having this discussion atm on another thread or 2...
I will turn down events/visits if I think my workout will benefit me more...for example I turned down time with my husband last week as he went to look at land...I didn't want to look at it...no interest in it....workout came first.
and I will turn down outings to eat out if I know the food won't be worth it...often times suggesting cooking at home instead...
But if you are insisting on never going out due to workouts etc...that is an issue.1 -
I'll give a pass to people with pre-existing psychological problems around food and eating, especially if they're in therapy for same, but:
I think people are asking for trouble if they start refusing to go to friends' homes for events involving food because they don't know the calories, or refusing to go to restaurants with friends because they don't know what to order.
Can it be a brief transitional strategy? Maybe. Do you have to accept every invitation, if they're frequent/routine? No.
But if isolation from family/friends and food celebrations becomes an essential element of one's healthy-weight lifestyle, that's not life balance.
I drive my wife nuts because she'll cook something and I either won't eat it or I'll spend 30 minutes trying to figure out what she put in it and how to log it. She likes to cook Chinese food (she's Chinese ) and her "throw togethers" can consist of about 5 different types of veggies and various meats tossed into a wok. Delicious, but dang hard to log. I'm currently bulking and getting enough calories is one my prime goals... but the logging issues are the same. I always get paranoid that I'm going to end up in a deficit and waste a great day lifting. 1 -
I'll give a pass to people with pre-existing psychological problems around food and eating, especially if they're in therapy for same, but:
I think people are asking for trouble if they start refusing to go to friends' homes for events involving food because they don't know the calories, or refusing to go to restaurants with friends because they don't know what to order.
Can it be a brief transitional strategy? Maybe. Do you have to accept every invitation, if they're frequent/routine? No.
But if isolation from family/friends and food celebrations becomes an essential element of one's healthy-weight lifestyle, that's not life balance.
This is where I apply math to show the absurdity of fretting over the 1-offs.
Say your daily calorie budget is 2000 kcals. 52 weeks in the year equals an annual calorie budget of 728,000 kcals. Let's assume your really off on your calorie estimation of a dish and go over by 500 calories. That equates to a 0.069% difference in your annual budget.
Unless this is a daily occurrence, this margin of error is meaningless.
Focus on the variables that matter. This variable does not.16 -
I like to have fun with it - go out with friends (who know I've lost a lot of weight and am maintaining the loss), and eat a huge, calorie-dense meal in front of them, to their astonishment. "How can you lose weight eating like that?!?!?".I'll give a pass to people with pre-existing psychological problems around food and eating, especially if they're in therapy for same, but:
I think people are asking for trouble if they start refusing to go to friends' homes for events involving food because they don't know the calories, or refusing to go to restaurants with friends because they don't know what to order.
Can it be a brief transitional strategy? Maybe. Do you have to accept every invitation, if they're frequent/routine? No.
But if isolation from family/friends and food celebrations becomes an essential element of one's healthy-weight lifestyle, that's not life balance.
What they don't realize is that I don't do it often, and if I've planned for it ahead of time it isn't a huge calorie hit for me anyway. It's fun to mess with people.
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I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.28
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I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
Seriously? Managing our weight by knowing how many calories we're consuming isn't mentally healthy? And as far as sustainable, you might check in with the many people here who have maintained their weight loss long term using the calorie counting tools provided here.10 -
I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
How is it not sustainable? Many of us seem to manage just fine. And while it may be mentally unhealthy for a small number of people, again, most of us manage just fine. For some people it may actually be more mentally healthy, because they know exactly (or as exactly as you can) how many calories they ate, whereas they may fret about overeating otherwise. And some people just never get good at estimating portion sizes. There is also the creep factor, those portion sizes just ever so slowly getting bigger. Right now i can whack off a 130g piece of halloumi with almost scary accuracy, if I stopped weighing it, I am in no way sure that it wouldn't have crept up to 150g.
You don't have to weigh your food to lose weight, some people manage just fine both losing and maintaining without weighing (I'm very good at maintaining without weighing or logging, until I'm not...), but having that certainty from weighing doesn't make you crazy, and is not in the least bit detrimental. If it doesn't suit you personally, fine, whatever.11 -
I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
Kitchen scales are only seen as unhealthy because Americans aren't used to equipping their kitchens with them. Other countries use them all the time.
As far as weighing ones food is concerned, it's a tool. Whether the use of a tool is mentally unhealthy or not is down to how the individual wields the tool, not your subjective judgement on the matter.16 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
Kitchen scales are only seen as unhealthy because Americans aren't used to equipping their kitchens with them. Other countries use them all the time.
As far as weighing ones food is concerned, it's a tool. Whether the use of a tool is mentally unhealthy or not is down to how the individual wields the tool, not your subjective judgement on the matter.
This might be true. When I first started counting calories I defaulted to the scale right away. I didn't know it was a better thing to do, it just felt more natural and easier to pop something on the scale for a second than trying to put mental work into determining what kind of size a piece of fruit is or washing extra cups and spoons. Even when I don't count calories I still weigh things because it's a habit now.
When my family saw me weighing things for dieting purposes they didn't think anything of it or comment. How is any data collection tool any more or less mentally healthy than another? Cups and spoons or even eyeballing are data collection tools, too. Mental illness is in the illness itself, not in the symptoms, and certainly not in the objects.16 -
I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.5 -
I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
I am one that could never find weighing my food sustainable. I didn't even last a month. But I don't think that equates to it being unsustainable for others, and certainly not mentally unhealthy in a general sense.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
Kitchen scales are only seen as unhealthy because Americans aren't used to equipping their kitchens with them. Other countries use them all the time.
I'm American and I've had a food scale for decades because it's sometimes important for measurements to be exact when preserving food. But that's the only time I drag it out because it's tedious to me.
I would never consider using it when cooking a meal. I rarely measure anything other than with my eyeballs when cooking. The only time I use cups is for grains and the liquid to cook them in and then it's often just a coffee mug.0 -
I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
Do you believe it is mentally unhealthy to balance your check book? To track income, expenses, ensure savings plans are on track, mortgage getting paid off, debt kept at a manageable level?
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I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
It's no less sustainable than using a measuring cup (I find it easier actually because I don't have anything to wash up afterwards) and I'm unsure how you can determine that it's mentally unhealthy for someone else. What are you basing that on?4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't think weighing everything you eat is mentally healthy. A few hard to estimate and calorie dense items? sure. Everything for a few weeks to get a better sense of portion sizes? good idea. Weighing every single thing as a long term plan is neither sustainable nor mentally healthy.
I am one that could never find weighing my food sustainable. I didn't even last a month. But I don't think that equates to it being unsustainable for others, and certainly not mentally unhealthy in a general sense.
Yeah, other people do things that are unsustainable *for me* or would lead me to feel anxious or otherwise mentally unwell. But that doesn't reflect on what those practices mean to them.3
This discussion has been closed.
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