Glute Imbalance and Scapular Winging
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darreneatschicken
Posts: 669 Member
Hey guys,
Ever since the start of 2015, I've been trying to fix my glute imbalance and scapular winging, but to no avail.
Long story short, when I descend during the squat, my body shifts towards the right, and when I ascend, I feel my right glutes and quads doing the brute of the work. Therefore, I have a weakness in the left side of my body, meaning that my right completely takes over during the lift.
I also having scapular winging in the left side of my body. When I bench, I find it puts stress on my biceps. I've been trying to keep my scaps down and back during the bench and trying to squeeze my chest during the way up, but it's a struggle for sure - very hard to feel the chest squeezing, very easy to let the arms take over.
After working with several personal trainers and not having any success from their workouts, I decided it was time to see a physio. She did a full assessment on me and listed the following problems:
1/2 inch leg length discrepancy (right leg longer)
SIJ misalignment
poor posture — sway back
poor gluteal recruitment on single-leg squat (more-so on left side)
weak gluteus medius and gluteus maximus (left is weaker than right)
poor hip external rotation (both)
post pelvic tilt at the bottom of squat
scapular winging on left side
weak serratus anterior strength
weak rhomboids and weak middle and lower traps
She gave me a daily stretching routine for my hips, and a workout to target both my glute imbalance and my scapular winging. I also got a half inch insole implanted in my left shoe (to add height due to the leg length discrepancy). 6 weeks later, no improvement. Still favoring the right during the squat, still feel scapular winging.
Decided to see a kinesiologist, who told me that physio tends to focus more on isolation, rather than taking the whole body into account and was also more for people with acute injuries. She did her own assessment on me, and noted the same problems that have been evident all along.
She prescribed me a workout to do to target the weaknesses and imbalances (for the scaps, hamstrings, core, hips, and glutes). I've been working her for almost a month now, and we've been making some adjustments to the program along the way (e.g., removing, adding exercises, targeting the left side 2x more for some exercises), and although my core and stability has improved, my right glute is still firing harder and my left scapular still feels shaky and imbalanced.
What should I do? Should I keep working with this kinesiologist and pray that her program will eventually help me? Or should I just give up? Maybe sign up for barbell classes/training? I really want to get into doing StrongLifts and building some muscle, but I know that I can't when I have so many problems.
Ever since the start of 2015, I've been trying to fix my glute imbalance and scapular winging, but to no avail.
Long story short, when I descend during the squat, my body shifts towards the right, and when I ascend, I feel my right glutes and quads doing the brute of the work. Therefore, I have a weakness in the left side of my body, meaning that my right completely takes over during the lift.
I also having scapular winging in the left side of my body. When I bench, I find it puts stress on my biceps. I've been trying to keep my scaps down and back during the bench and trying to squeeze my chest during the way up, but it's a struggle for sure - very hard to feel the chest squeezing, very easy to let the arms take over.
After working with several personal trainers and not having any success from their workouts, I decided it was time to see a physio. She did a full assessment on me and listed the following problems:
1/2 inch leg length discrepancy (right leg longer)
SIJ misalignment
poor posture — sway back
poor gluteal recruitment on single-leg squat (more-so on left side)
weak gluteus medius and gluteus maximus (left is weaker than right)
poor hip external rotation (both)
post pelvic tilt at the bottom of squat
scapular winging on left side
weak serratus anterior strength
weak rhomboids and weak middle and lower traps
She gave me a daily stretching routine for my hips, and a workout to target both my glute imbalance and my scapular winging. I also got a half inch insole implanted in my left shoe (to add height due to the leg length discrepancy). 6 weeks later, no improvement. Still favoring the right during the squat, still feel scapular winging.
Decided to see a kinesiologist, who told me that physio tends to focus more on isolation, rather than taking the whole body into account and was also more for people with acute injuries. She did her own assessment on me, and noted the same problems that have been evident all along.
She prescribed me a workout to do to target the weaknesses and imbalances (for the scaps, hamstrings, core, hips, and glutes). I've been working her for almost a month now, and we've been making some adjustments to the program along the way (e.g., removing, adding exercises, targeting the left side 2x more for some exercises), and although my core and stability has improved, my right glute is still firing harder and my left scapular still feels shaky and imbalanced.
What should I do? Should I keep working with this kinesiologist and pray that her program will eventually help me? Or should I just give up? Maybe sign up for barbell classes/training? I really want to get into doing StrongLifts and building some muscle, but I know that I can't when I have so many problems.
3
Replies
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i think if any of us went to a physio , we'd all get diagnosed with a handful of issues. No one has a perfectly balanced body, we just work with what we have. You are probably way over stressing about all of this. Just find a workout program that you like and stick with it. Work with what you have , no one is 100% perfect. Unless you have some major injury , or doing some dangerous exercises, don't worry about it.13
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i want to do stronglifts, but my left glute is not activating properly during the squat... is this not a problem? it just pisses me off that my right glute is doing all the work
the stronglifts guide stresses proper form... if im leaning more to the right during the descent of the squat, then that is not proper form1 -
plus, i only went to the physio because people on this forum recommended me to:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10350485/do-i-have-a-glute-imbalance#latest
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Can you do a good form squat with just the bar on your back + concentrating on good movement patterns, or is this an issue that arises at every weight?
Im asking because if you can achieve good form at lower weights, maybe the answer is as simple as reducing your weight and only progressing when you are able to achieve good form.
It may be boring as hell and require taping all your lifts, but its how I've addressed form issues in the past.16 -
no, even with no weight, the problem rears its ugly head1
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Keep working the drills and movements that have been prescribed for you. Things like that don't fix themselves over night or in a short time frame. You're going to need a lot of patience.14
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Keep working the drills and movements that have been prescribed for you. Things like that don't fix themselves over night or in a short time frame. You're going to need a lot of patience.
This.
It's only been several weeks, keep working at it, this takes time. Especially since it's probably a pattern you've developed to compensate for the lack of leg length for many years.
I would work on the drills the physio and kinesiologist gave you which recommends you isolate each leg (atleast from my understanding this is the approach you're taking) as this is the better approach to fix imbalances. These things don't change overnight.6 -
Keep working the drills and movements that have been prescribed for you. Things like that don't fix themselves over night or in a short time frame. You're going to need a lot of patience.
3-12 months of consistently doing the unilateral correctives is the timeframe you need to anticipate.9 -
Like i mentioned last year when you posted your squat video, your right foot splays outward on squats and your right arch caves in, which can cause a shifting in your squat. You can test if that still applies by doing this calf stretch for a full 60 seconds, immediately before you squat. Only stretch your right side.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=CkgkmbXz8Mo
If it helps, your calf is screwing up your squat.
As far as keeping your shoulders down & back on the bench press, stretching your upper trapezius will make that easier:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Y5SAKcsUGXE
Again, 60 full seconds, immediately before you bench.
To enable better thoracic extension on the bench, this foam roller stretch can help a lot:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uzWOECAhsAM
Hold it for a minute, not like he's doing.
Try to find the cause of the winging scapula. Maybe an old injury, or sleeping on your left side a lot more than your right. Wearing a heavy messenger bag could do it too.
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i want to do stronglifts, but my left glute is not activating properly during the squat... is this not a problem?
i can't speak or predict for you, but from my own perspective: yup, i have the same kind of cluster and i definitely consider it a problem. it's worth working on imo. i definitely don't advise lifting too heavy with an s.i. joint dysfunction, if nothing else.
my experience has been that once i progress to a certain point with lifting it stops me. i'm slowly picking away at the various places and ways that it manifests, and i have this hope/expectation still that eventually it will run of out of points in my kinetic chain to move to. i've got more pressing things to spend money on than endless physio so the only hard practical suggestions i have are these:
- for the winging scapula, strengthening my lower traps on that side made a giant difference. to go along with that, i had to downtune my levator scapula on that side and digging through my pec minor for trigger points to release has been another big help. i basically find i can strengthen that lower trap all i want, but if the muscles further upstream from it are still fighting with it for control and winning, a lot of the lower trap strength is wasted.
- for my own personal s.i. problems, doing a simple reset a few times a day seems to help. i just plant my feet a little wider than hip width, usually parallel to each other, and pull them together like i'm trying to rumple the floor. sometimes moving one foot out in front a little will also do it, but i've always foudn that the parallel part is what counts. ymmv so be careful. but in my case all i get is a painless little pop feeling and things seem to settle down more.
- also, i swear by banded crab walks for the glute med, for what that's worth.
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thanks for the advice guys, i'm going to stick with the routine that I have prescribed now, but I'll keep some of your recommended exercises and stretches in mind
i talked to my kinesiologist over the phone, and she said that hopefully by the 3-month mark, my imbalance will have greatly diminished... i still seem a bit skeptical, especially since i haven't really felt a lot of improvement (right glute still firing way harder, starting to feel my left glute working a tiny bit more), but i'm just gonna keep working at it
right now my prescribed routine includes these exercises:
1. upper trunk rotation (doing 2x more on my left)
2. vertebral roll
3. stabilization multifidus (doing 2x more on my left)
4. isometric hip extension
5. bridge and knees curl
6. clamshells (doing 2x more on my left)
7. hip abduction on wall (doing 2x more on my left)
8. DB walking lunge
9. cable palloff press (doing 2x more on my left)
10. scap push-up0 -
Email to my kinesiologist summing up my recent thoughts regarding my bodily imbalances:
Glute Imbalance
My right glute seems to be firing harder than ever (similar to what happened after doing 6 weeks of those physio exercises as well), and my body almost feels like it's leaning to the right when I walk.
I pay more attention to my body now, and it scares me. I'll be walking, working, sitting, and I'll always feel my right glute working more, while my left glute remains largely inactive. For example, I'll be walking, and I feel my right glute flexing extremely hard with every step that I take with my right foot, but when I take a step with my left foot, my left glute feels almost numb. I try to flex it every time that I take a step with the left foot, but when I do, it doesn't experience the same "isolated" flex as my right one does. In other words, my left hamstring (and even a bit of my left hip) seems to be helping my left glute flex, whereas the right glute doesn't need any help to.
Therefore, I am very worried that our exercise routine is not working because while my right glute seems to be firing harder than ever, the left glute still feels the same, despite the 2x added load. I am worried that even though I am not working the right glute as hard as the left, it is still getting stronger for some reason (probably because it is not using surrounding muscles as assistance to activate, whereas the left glute is).
I feel like I should be smashing the left glute even harder, while doing almost nothing for the right glute, what Bret Contreras recommends in his article:
https://bretcontreras.com/how-to-fix-glute-imbalances/
How to Fix Glute Imbalances – Bret Contreras
bretcontreras.com
Glute imbalances are very common – much more common than you’d imagine. Out of all of the email inquiries I receive from my readers pertaining to the glutes, the ...
In his article, Bret lists six strategies on how you can fix glute imbalances; the first two include doing:
10 sets of 3-second maximum contractions with the weaker glute from a standing position
10 sets of 3-second maximum contractions with the weaker glute from a seated position
10 sets of 3-second maximum contractions with the weaker glute from a prone position
and
2 sets of 10-20 reps of side lying abductions with the weaker leg
2 sets of 10-20 reps of side lying clams with the weaker leg
2 sets of 10-20 reps of quadruped hip extensions with the weaker leg
2 sets of 10-20 reps of single leg glute bridges with the weaker leg
Scapular Winging
Regarding my winging, I still feel it quite a lot when I'm doing snow angels on the foam roller. I've been practicing the "back and down" movement with the scaps, because that's what seems to be the problem, and I just recently noticed that when I do back and down on my right side, the serratus anterior on the right stays still and stable; you can hardly feel it move. However, when I did the back and down movement with my left scaps, I felt my left serratus anterior activating quite a lot, like it was actually sticking out whenever I attempted to squeeze those scaps (you can feel it during our next session). Scary stuff, but I think I may be on to something. I just noticed this because I got back from the gym and my left scaps and arms were all experiencing a nagging sense of pain (probably from doing scap push-ups without ball support). I suspect that I need to strengthen my left serratus anterior by blasting the *kitten* out of it.
I notice that when I push my right scaps back, they have a pretty free range of motion, but when I do it with my left scaps, they feel a bit restrained, like something is blocking it, and so it is lacking a bit in range of motion as compared to the right.
Read this article too, which talks a lot about activating and isolating your serratus anterior:
http://posturedirect.com/how-to-fix-a-winged-scapula/
How to fix a Winged Scapula - Posture Direct
posturedirect.com
Here is a complete list of effective exercises to fix your winged scapula. Use the exact same strategies that has worked for many of my patients!
Maybe some of those listed exercises we could work on?
Weak left core
I was doing those marches on the foam roller, and I thought that my left core was actually getting stronger because I was no longer using my hands as support when raising my left leg. However, today I realized that I was just using my right leg (rather than my hand) as support by putting more pressure on it. After I realized this, I tried hammering the left side without my hands on the floor and without putting any pressure on the right foot. It was much harder. I need to keep hammering my left core more. I also need more good exercises like the foam roller march to isolate that left side. Pallof presses are decent, but I still feel my right abs working when doing them and I feel it in my glutes too. Side planks, maybe? But I'm worried that they will put too much stress on my shoulders.
Left hamstrings
Like I already mentioned, surrounding muscles are being recruited to help that left glute activate, mostly the hamstrings. When I'm doing hamstring curls with the bosu ball, I feel uneven recruitment in both sides (either my left or my right hamstring is working, never both). If I don't think about it, the left seems to do the brute of the work more often than not. This must mean that my left hamstrings are stronger than my right (because they activate so much to help assist that left glute). We must figure a way to down-tune the left hamstrings while strengthening the right (maybe that exercise you showed me with the leg curl machine).
My kinesiologist called me over the weekend after reading this, and she said that during our next meeting, we are going to change the program and focus more on isolating the left glutes and fixing the scapular winging.0 -
*kitten*, so I just saw the kinesiologist again not too long ago, and we had to completely revamp my routine. At first, we were going to do the first two steps in Bret Contreras article, but a few hours after doing step two, which was the lying abductions, clams, and quadruped hip extensions, a very faint, nagging sense of pain emerged in my left leg, originating from my kneecap and traveling up the back of the leg / hamstrings.
So we have decided that I am only going to do step 1 for now, which is just isometric contractions with the weaker glute from a standing, seated, and prone position, 10x a day for 1 second holds (because any longer, and I already start to feel my hamstrings kicking in, it *kitten* sucks)...
Pretty much going back to step 1, dumbing things down, and realizing that "simpler is better." Just working really hard on isolating and trying to squeeze that left glute without activating the hamstrings (or at least on making the glute fire first).
If I squeeze my left glutes too much, I start to feel my hamstrings getting fatigued... If I'm in a lying position, and I squeeze my left glute and raise the leg up, my left hammie immediately starts to kick in to help raise that leg off the ground.
Regarding my winging, we are pretty much doing what you guys told me: releasing the pecs and stretching out the levator scapulae and upper traps.
Still doing the scap push-ups with the bosu-ball as support, but I honestly don't think it's helping because my scaps still feel asymmetrical in regards to sharing the load (right is so much stronger and dominant and therefore always tends to take over, while the left scapular remains feeling dumb, restricted in motion). I honestly feel that the scapular activation exercises that I got from the physio were more helpful (at least in improving posture, but this *kitten* seems to think my upper-back structure has improved).
We are trying to strengthen my serratus anterior by doing wall slides, and I really feel it activating during this exercise.
Still doing the foam roller marches to target my left core, still sometimes feel like I'm leaning more to the right when I walk.
Honestly, I might just find a good physio in town. It hurts my wallet having to pay $90 an hour for this kinesiologist when my medical plan covers physio. I thought a kinesiologist would be better, and I have learned a lot more about how my body operates, but I still haven't really felt any improvement. Sometimes, I just feel like I'm wasting time, trying and dumping random routines, never really improving. It *kitten* sucks. Hopefully doing these simple isometric contractions for my left glute will finally help it to activate properly, and hopefully my left scaps will gain full ROM, but it all just seems so *kitten* distant, even though I've been working at this for years...0 -
still not really feeling any improvement... am seeing another physio in two weeks... losing hope...0
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I fixed scapula winging with reformer pilates, although it did take a long time.
I also found the pilates made me WAY more aware of my body in general, and taught me how to stabilize my core properly, and how to make little adjustments when I feel things going wrong or wonky.
It took a few goes to find a studio I liked, but it was worth persisting, as it did me SO much good!
I went for 5 years, and only stopped recently when I moved 50 miles away from my old studio
(I'm also hopelessly wonky in the quads, glutes and lower back, as I've had different kinds of surgery on both ankles, and one is almost fused and the other is floppy, so I walk TOTALLY squiffy. Regular massage helps to loosen off the tighter side to get back to more equal function, and makes any exercise I do more effective. Might be worth trying for you as well?)2 -
hi, thanks for the advice, i youtubed "pilates scapular exercises" and it came up with some good stuff, i have to admit, i was pretty hesitant at first because i didn't really know what pilates was, i just thought of it as some "girly" stuff
pretty much looks like exercises that actually strengthen your scaps through prolonged tension... some movements even involve using light weights
right now, i am doing the typical physio exercises that you can find on google if you search "how to fix scapular winging," but i've been doing these types of exercises for months now and it's been no help
i've even been releasing my whole body with a lacrosse ball and rumble roller and doing static stretching... no help, other than I notice my bad posture a lot more now throughout the day so it helps me remind myself to stand straight
the great thing about the new physio that i signed up for is that they have kinesiologists, massage therapists, and pilates instructors working in-house too
so if the physio thinks pilates is a good idea for me, then i will for sure give it a go, i will make sure to bring it up with him
also, how exactly how long did it take you to fix your winging? years? i hope not...1 -
Sadly I don't know how long it took... I wasn't focusing only on that, and I only went to one class a week, but it was maybe done within a year?
Also, reformer pilates can be SUPER hardcore. There were never more than 1 or 2 men in my classes, but they were always really surprised how hard it was when they started.0 -
Could you please send me some youtube links demonstrating some of the exercises you did?
Here are a couple of good ones that I found that I might start doing in the gym, but they do not implement the reformer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaqtcD9evVY&index=126&list=PLYKBLlnzGdg3aT1xj6GKrcG7gDF5flRRd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owrPNDQS1Nk&list=PLYKBLlnzGdg3aT1xj6GKrcG7gDF5flRRd&index=128 0 -
did 60 lunges yesterday starting with 10 lbs DBs and going to 12.5 and 15 lbs only hammering the left side. i find that i can really get my glute to activate if i focus on pushing from the heel of my foot. needless to say, my left glute was on fire when i woke up today (but not my hamstrings), which is very good. hip is a bit sore too, which is bothering me a bit, but it's mostly the glute that feels worked, so im satisfied.
therefore, i would have to say that, so far, the lunge is the best glute isolation exercise for me.
the other more typical glute isolation exercises (e.g., clamshells, side lying abductions, quadruped hip extensions, and single leg glute bridges) seem to be largely ineffective because they allow my body to recruit the hamstrings, hips, IT band, and TFL too much (this seems to happen whenever i raise my leg off the ground, so exercises that seem to resist gravity are bad for me in regards to glute isolation). after doing these exercises, i tend to have a faint pain originating from my kneecap and running down the back of my legs/hamstrings, and through the sides/TFL/IT band/hips, so i know to stay far far away from these exercises now.
i feel that standing side abductions against the wall with a bosu ball is another decent glute isolation exercise because im not lifting my weak leg off the ground... i can really feel my hips and glutes working during this exercise, but it's hard to add resistance/weight (only way I can think of is using ankle weights)
step-ups might be decent too, especially with the glute squeeze at the top, but stepping up i feel recruits the quads a bit too much
so yeah, blasting my left glute with DB lunges seems to be the best bet thus far. im going to keep doing them every second day, making sure to release surrounding muscles before and also really continue working on those 1-3 second isometric contractions from standing, seated, and prone positions0 -
Just for info sake: my left leg is overall is slightly smaller than my right for one main reason........sciatica. If the nerves aren't firing to contract the muscle due to impingement on them, there's not too much you can do. I can opt for surgery to try to fix the problem, however I can run, squat, leg press etc. right now with just minor discomfort. Not willing to go under the knife with the possibility of losing sensation on my left side.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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