Glute Imbalance and Scapular Winging

canadianlbs

i'm just going to drop two cents into this thread since you seem so motivated to fix both problems and i keep seeing words like ' hammer' and 'thrash' and so forth.

my two cents is just: fill your boots doing this when it's the glute [maybe. i'm not sure i would but my issue may have a different root cause than yours]. but DON'T try to ' hammer' your shoulderblade into line. it's a totally different muscle group with totally different injury thresholds and recruitment patterns. subtlety and focused attention is the way to go, or you're just going to make a bad problem worse imo.

i relate to your frustration about both of the problems, but i've really been wanting to get this thing said.

ETA: also, for what it's worth on the shoulder end of things, i don't think i got much out of scapular stabilization drills until i actually understood the anatomy and started to concentrate on supporting and strengthening my lower trap on that side. i still see that as my personal magic bullet, although ymmv over it.

if you do reach a similar conclusion, then here are some thoughts i've collected:

1. you get much better mileage from the lower-trap work if you focus any myofascial release work on the muscles that compete with it for control and positioning of your entire shoulderblade. in my own case that usually seems to be levator scapula and just as importantly pec minor on the 'front' side of the shoulderblade/collarbone complex. i release those first so the lower trap has a little bit more of a chance.
2. personally, once my lower trap was in a better condition and participating properly, my serratus and subscapular stuff calmed right down.
3. i think it was this article by eric cressey that set me off in the right direction.

darreneatschicken

yes, don't worry, im only hammering my glutes, not my scaps, because for the scaps, im starting to realize that less is more

thanks for the eric cressey video btw, really informational

i've been releasing my pec minor and levator scapulae but i find that during the scap exercises, my upper traps are taking over my scaps/lower traps

eric cressey says in the video that this is fine for someone like his patient, but for the general fitness person, they really want to work on disengaging their upper traps... i find this sort of contradicting

regardless, i think that less is more, and that i need to just go for a low ROM and focus solely on movement from the scaps (stop the moment that i start to feel my upper traps work)

i just spent another $220 bucks on a new physiotherapist and it just confirmed my thoughts on how useless they are

guy was telling me to do bilateral squats and RDL's and glute bridges even though i told him that I couldn't do them with proper symmetry, so then he told me to do some single leg squats on my left leg, and i couldn't do it properly because my hip just takes over, and he said to keep working on it even though it will be low ROM and low reps... such BS lol

for the single leg glute bridges he was telling me to push against the floor away from me to help engage those glutes more... didn't help

for the squat, he told me to imagine pushing my knees out...

at the end of the day, physios are more worried about rushing to see their next patient rather than taking the time to work with you

anyways, for the left glute, im going to stick with whats worked the best so far: single leg lunges with DBs focusing on driving from the heel... blasting them with 3 sets of 15 reps, and doing absolutely no work on the right side

im going to keep fine-tuning my left scap and blasting my left glute until the end of the year (hopefully a bit sooner though); i need to set a deadline for myself to start weightlifting or else im just going to keep doing these BS exercises until i get old and frail

i can already get that nice pinch in my back when i squeeze my scaps together, but im still feeling the right scap way more than the left; the left still feels faint and absent, lagging behind

canadianlbs

Dern420 wrote: »

i find that during the scap exercises, my upper traps are taking over my scaps/lower traps

i could not get my lower traps kick-started until i took to laying the flat of my other hand over the entire muscle and going by whether or not i could feel them firing with that hand. relying on sensation from the muscle itself was no use at first. a week or two of being really strict with myself about that broke the sensation logjam. for me just progressing myself to that point was a minor pre-project in its own right but it was critical.

it's the same with the deep hip rotators and drills like the clamshells. there isn't much point in having a strong glute on that side unless you can properly control the rest of your femur where it sockets into your hip. i know how frustrating physios are, especially if they're not articulate. still, the fact that they couldn't make their point clearly doesn't mean that the thing they were trying to tell you is wrong. you could try thinking of the clamshells as being more about rotating that ball in the 'cup', and not so much about moving your leg.

darreneatschicken

thanks for the advice, i placed my right hand on my left scaps today during some basic T, Y exercises (with extremely low ROM), and really tried to focus on that left scap moving (stopped immediately as soon as upper traps and anterior deltoids started to take over).

i also did 3 sets of bench press with 10 lb. DB's... focused heavily on the back and down motion (can get a solid pinch now) and pushing up with the pecs while keeping scaps pinned.

last set i did with just the left arm, had my right hand over my left pec, and could actually feel it squeeze a bit at the top

still, i can feel the anterior delts taking over for my left side, while on the right, it is relatively quiet

after the 3 sets, i started to feel the faint soreness setting into the front of my shoulders

gotta stretch and release those front delts more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFovw4Lqk1I&list=PLYKBLlnzGdg3aT1xj6GKrcG7gDF5flRRd&index=131

regarding my left glutes, yes, the problem is super annoying, and it's like the hip socket is not fitting into place... i can't even do one single leg squat without extending from the hip

single leg glute bridge: hamstring takes over as soon as i thrust up

clamshells: whenever i move that leg up, the IT band, TFL, and hips immediately takes over, even if i focus on squeezing and moving from the glute... i guess i'll start trying to imagine the movement originating from the hip instead

still, i feel so disabled on my left side right now, it's unbelievable... if the problem is not fixed by the end of the year, i'm confining myself to split squats for the rest of my life

darreneatschicken

so i've worked with several personal trainers, kinesiologists and physiotherapists, and although i've learned a lot from each one of them, my problem is still not fixed

i'm sticking with my plan, but in the meantime, am going to start seeing a chiropractor who can hopefully keep my hips re-aligned

my brother also mentioned that he is seeing a RMT, who is currently working on him to release the masses of tension that are knotted up in his left leg, so maybe an RMT would be someone i could see too... maybe i need someone to release all the tension that is keeping my left scaps and glutes from activating properly... apparently they can get to parts that the rumble roller and lacrosse ball can't?

i hate pouring more $ into my problem, but flawless activation is necessary for symmetry and injury prevention

Cherimoose

Dern420 wrote: »

i hate pouring more $ into my problem, but flawless activation is necessary for symmetry and injury prevention

Possibly if you're an elite athlete, but even then, many elite athletes & lifters do fine despite significant left/right imperfections.
Do you have an actual injury that precipitated all this research?

canadianlbs

you could also at this point just go and see an actual doctor. not implying that the people you've seen already aren't valid, but:

if you have a headache and it responds to aspirin you don't need a doctor. if you have an aspirin-proof headache that responds to physio or massage or chiro or whatever, you don't need a doctor. but if you have a headache that outlives all of these avenues you go ask a doctor to find out why not.

see a doctor. get them to give you the basic tests, and explain the avenues that you've already tried. if the one you see won't upstream you for some kind of structural/soft tissue diagnostics, then ask around and try finding someone who will.

darreneatschicken

yeah, im searching for a new family doctor right now, hopefully i find a good one...

now that hockey season has started, i am constantly having to walk around with soreness only in my left hip and in my right glute... sooo annoying!

it's weird because i've never really seriously injured myself before... so i find it hard to believe that i have some nerve damage

TavistockToad

You don't put your age, but I don't think 6 weeks of doing what your physio suggested is long enough to say it doesn't work if you've developed this imbalance over the last 20-30 years?

canadianlbs

haven't watched this but i've just sat through his buttwink thing which i liked a lot. so fwiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z2rMKk-CfY

darreneatschicken

TavistockToad wrote: »

You don't put your age, but I don't think 6 weeks of doing what your physio suggested is long enough to say it doesn't work if you've developed this imbalance over the last 20-30 years?

i'm 22, and after 6+ weeks of doing the exercises, i should be feeling at least some improvement, but I don't feel any different at all

darreneatschicken

the more i learn, the more i realize that less is more

saw a chiropractor today (had doctor in his title and was also certified to prescribe orthotics)

he said that my muscles are simply too tight to be doing any strengthening exercises (such exercises are actually detrimental at this point, and will only make me tighter)

he prescribed 3 glute stretches for me, and told me to do them 3x a day, three 15 second holds for each side

he also told me not to do any more foam rolling, as doing so could actually aggravate my muscles more

he noted that if my leg discrepancy stays consistent, he will be prescribing an insole for me that actually works (unlike the cheap one that i'm wearing right now)

darreneatschicken

im actually really looking forward to having a custom-prescribed insole

i've been noticing more and more lately that im actually constantly walking around with a hyper-extended left leg (always feels like its locked up)

i feel that an insole that takes into account my leg discrepancy, my in-toeing, and my semi-flat heels will finally be the cure that i've been waiting for for so long (along with constant stretching but no strengthening)

darreneatschicken

things are finally starting to look bright for the first time in years

going in for a gait analysis next week to get custom orthotics prescribed

pretty stoked, because I also feel that the 'strictly stretching' routine is actually helping my body loosen up

my hamstrings aren't constantly tight like they used to be, and my left glute and scap actually get sore sometimes from doing all the stretching

hamstrings actually hurt one time after stretching them too much (maybe not a good thing?)

i think i just need to release the hip flexor / psoas muscle more now, in order to further free up that left glute

darreneatschicken

still been stretching everyday

can still only feel my right glute when i walk, bend over, etc., but when I try to consciously flex my left glute, the hammies and hips work less to help it activate (mostly can only feel it in my hips now)

had a simple gait analysis on monday where I walked over this platform thing on the floor of the chiropractor's hallway

going in again on monday to get the results

darreneatschicken

yesterday i had an appointment with my chiropractor to discuss the results of my gait analysis

he said that my right foot is pronated 30 degrees, while my left is pronated 20 degrees, meaning that i am putting a lot more pressure on my right foot, hence the glute imbalance

my orthotics are currently being made to target this problem (along with the leg length discrepancy)

they should be ready in two weeks and are going to cost $475, which sucks, so im talking to my health insurance company about possible plans, but if none of them are worth it, then im just going to suck it up and pay the $475 out of my pocket

finally feeling hopeful for the first time in years... so happy, you can't even begin to understand... i've been working at this for soooo long

the chiropractor says that along with the stretching, i can now add 30 reps (6 sets of 5 reps) of single leg squats (on the left leg) to the daily routine

however, because my hips tend to take over during the exercise, i can only go down so far until my knees are overtop of my toes (so very low ROM), focusing on pushing from my heels on the ascension

darreneatschicken

orthotics are ordered and coming in two weeks, got health insurance to cover half the cost

one-legged squat on left leg is actually getting better. can feel both the glute and the hip activate now, instead of just the hip. it's good because i keep up with the stretching and it helps relieve and prevent soreness

darreneatschicken

...left glutes are also feeling sore the day after hockey... something that rarely ever happens

Lean59man

Sounds like nonsense.

You are way overthinking. Get under some weight and lift it.

darreneatschicken

Lean59man wrote: »

Sounds like nonsense.

You are way overthinking. Get under some weight and lift it.

i was squatting my own body weight at one point before i realized that i was destroying my body with improper muscular activation (hips and back in particular were taking the brute of the force).

you are not me, so i don't expect you to understand how my body feels when i exercise.

anyways, orthotics are coming in soon, and i feel better for the first time in years, so it's only a matter of time before i can get back under the bar (i'm aiming for the new year).

just gotta keep stretching and working on my left legged squat till i hit proper ROM with solid glute activation, then i can try it with two legs... gonna play it by ear with my chiropractor, but i feel like i've been improved thus far.

very much looking forward to what the future holds!