Glute Imbalance and Scapular Winging
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I’m sure you can find lots of info on the stretch online but this really caught my eye because my physiotherapist is having me do it and it’s really good! So that’s just the sheet she gave me.
Reading your posts I noticed my shoulder does the same thing and I went to her about that too. I’ll honestly just reiterate the importance of sticking with something long enough to know if it’s right for you. I’ve had a great experience with my physio but honestly it’s taken me oh 6-8 months or so to strengthen my glutes doing exercises from her every day following her increases & suggestions.
Yes there are professionals who will be wrong for you, but even then you can’t be sure until there’s no change over a long long time. I tried going to a chiropractor years ago about my sore knees and it was useless. I didn’t figure out why it was happening until I saw a physiotherapist who said my IT band was really tight - and I saw results over time. My knees still do hurt (literally like 2 years later) but now I know how to help them hurt less. It can be hard to be patient when you’re anxious but it’s necessary.
Thanks for showing me that sciatic nerve glide stretch. A lot of other people on the internet seem to recommend that stretch too.
However, there are two versions: the lying down one, and the seated one (with legs hanging off a table). What's the difference between the two, and which one is better?
Also, I'm at 20 reps now for that glute initiation exercise. Foam roll before, and stretch after. No pain so far.
Going for 25 reps tomorrow.
I think the variations can be personal preference/ability. Might be worth asking your physio person or googling. But I know for my hips, they are very flexible and I don’t feel a stretch unless I lay down and pull my leg towards me. But the nerve glide stretch is very challenging and I can barely grab my leg.
Were you instructed to keep increasing repetitions? Only asking because my experience for glutes has been changes in the exercises over time. I was doing clamshells then banded clamshells and now the fire hydrant one. Also progressed from the bridge pose favouring one leg to doing single-leg brides now (gosh it’s hard!!). I’m definitely noticing my glutes engaging more now but still not in a balanced way. It’s been well over a year.
Definitely takes time. I am sorry it’s so expensive for you though, my provinces insurance covers this for me because I was injured repeatedly lmao. Really makes you think healthcare needs to be more universal. This stuff is important for basic functioning...
Yeah, it's funny because I saw the athletic therapist on Friday, and he gave me the same sciatic nerve glide stretch as you (the lying down one).
I also tried the sitting one, but didn't really feel anything.
I still think the best stretch is when you lie in a doorway, put your leg up against the wall, then use a belt or strap to pull down on your foot. You can position your foot at an angle to stretch the sciatic nerve, and truly go all in.
Anyways, the therapist performed some soft tissue manual therapy on me, then told me to go home and do 20 reps of that glute initiation exercise.
He mentioned that my "upslit" was a lot better than last time.
I also asked him about doctors and osteopaths. He said that I wouldn't have to see a doctor unless the pain persists for over 3 months (it started in January)...
I asked him if I should see an osteo or massage therapist. He said, "if I were to choose between the two, I'd go with an osteo."
So I went home, and the next day, I did 20 reps of that exercise.
A few hours later, I started experiencing the pain running down the left side of my leg again.
I'm going to have to call the therapist tomorrow to see what he says, but this is getting really annoying.
The type of exercise doesn't matter, because all glute exercises result in pain.
It might be time to see an osteo...3 -
Feeling very frustrated right now.
So I called my athletic therapist today and told him about the sciatic pain that was triggered by doing the glute initiation exercise.
His response was to stop doing that exercise, and start doing 20 reps of wall squats and clamshells instead.
I've already done those exercises in the past, and they almost always lead to pain. I don't understand why he thinks changing exercises will help.
If my piriformis is impinging my sciatic nerve, then this compression must be stopped before I can proceed to do any strengthening exercises... I don't understand why therapists don't understand this.
I mean, the guy performed soft tissue manipulations on me for the entirety of our session, but it clearly isn't helping.
Maybe an osteo might be more qualified to make permanent, physical changes to my body.4 -
I’m sure you can find lots of info on the stretch online but this really caught my eye because my physiotherapist is having me do it and it’s really good! So that’s just the sheet she gave me.
Reading your posts I noticed my shoulder does the same thing and I went to her about that too. I’ll honestly just reiterate the importance of sticking with something long enough to know if it’s right for you. I’ve had a great experience with my physio but honestly it’s taken me oh 6-8 months or so to strengthen my glutes doing exercises from her every day following her increases & suggestions.
Yes there are professionals who will be wrong for you, but even then you can’t be sure until there’s no change over a long long time. I tried going to a chiropractor years ago about my sore knees and it was useless. I didn’t figure out why it was happening until I saw a physiotherapist who said my IT band was really tight - and I saw results over time. My knees still do hurt (literally like 2 years later) but now I know how to help them hurt less. It can be hard to be patient when you’re anxious but it’s necessary.
Thanks for showing me that sciatic nerve glide stretch. A lot of other people on the internet seem to recommend that stretch too.
However, there are two versions: the lying down one, and the seated one (with legs hanging off a table). What's the difference between the two, and which one is better?
Also, I'm at 20 reps now for that glute initiation exercise. Foam roll before, and stretch after. No pain so far.
Going for 25 reps tomorrow.
I think the variations can be personal preference/ability. Might be worth asking your physio person or googling. But I know for my hips, they are very flexible and I don’t feel a stretch unless I lay down and pull my leg towards me. But the nerve glide stretch is very challenging and I can barely grab my leg.
Were you instructed to keep increasing repetitions? Only asking because my experience for glutes has been changes in the exercises over time. I was doing clamshells then banded clamshells and now the fire hydrant one. Also progressed from the bridge pose favouring one leg to doing single-leg brides now (gosh it’s hard!!). I’m definitely noticing my glutes engaging more now but still not in a balanced way. It’s been well over a year.
Definitely takes time. I am sorry it’s so expensive for you though, my provinces insurance covers this for me because I was injured repeatedly lmao. Really makes you think healthcare needs to be more universal. This stuff is important for basic functioning...
Yeah, it's funny because I saw the athletic therapist on Friday, and he gave me the same sciatic nerve glide stretch as you (the lying down one).
I also tried the sitting one, but didn't really feel anything.
I still think the best stretch is when you lie in a doorway, put your leg up against the wall, then use a belt or strap to pull down on your foot. You can position your foot at an angle to stretch the sciatic nerve, and truly go all in.
Anyways, the therapist performed some soft tissue manual therapy on me, then told me to go home and do 20 reps of that glute initiation exercise.
He mentioned that my "upslit" was a lot better than last time.
I also asked him about doctors and osteopaths. He said that I wouldn't have to see a doctor unless the pain persists for over 3 months (it started in January)...
I asked him if I should see an osteo or massage therapist. He said, "if I were to choose between the two, I'd go with an osteo."
So I went home, and the next day, I did 20 reps of that exercise.
A few hours later, I started experiencing the pain running down the left side of my leg again.
I'm going to have to call the therapist tomorrow to see what he says, but this is getting really annoying.
The type of exercise doesn't matter, because all glute exercises result in pain.
It might be time to see an osteo...
Slow your roll mate. If you got the pain several hours after the exercise it doesn't sound related. If it happened immediately then I more likely could be. Did you do the sciatic stretch when you got the pain.
Listen to him, you've only just started therapy. Give it time.2 -
Yes, the pain usually takes time to settle in. And yes, the sciatic stretch along with the hamstring along the wall stretch usually calms the pain a lot. But this usually means that I'm spending 45+ minutes a day stretching. I just can't afford to do that.
I find that an 8-hour shift of sitting in the office irritates my sciatic nerve as well.
I'll give the wall squats and clamshells a try, but it's hard when you're constantly in pain.0 -
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TavistockToad wrote: »
The office layout wouldn't really be able to accommodate one.
If I had a doctor's note, I could probably request an ergonomic chair.
However, special chairs and desks would only be treating the symptoms, not the cause (which is a compressed sciatic nerve).
I need a specialist to perform manual manipulation on my body, in order to relieve the tension that my tight piriformis muscle is causing.
The athletic therapist said that seeing an osteo might help, so I don't understand why you guys are so against the idea.
I've been reading a lot into osteos lately, and most people who praise them are those who weren't able to get any relief from physios, chiropractors, etc.
They all exclaim how much better they felt immediately after their appointments.
Right now, I either feel the same, or even worse, after my appointments with the athletic therapist.
I think an osteo is better-trained to make permanent adjustments to my fascia and muscular structure.0 -
I’m sure you can find lots of info on the stretch online but this really caught my eye because my physiotherapist is having me do it and it’s really good! So that’s just the sheet she gave me.
Reading your posts I noticed my shoulder does the same thing and I went to her about that too. I’ll honestly just reiterate the importance of sticking with something long enough to know if it’s right for you. I’ve had a great experience with my physio but honestly it’s taken me oh 6-8 months or so to strengthen my glutes doing exercises from her every day following her increases & suggestions.
Yes there are professionals who will be wrong for you, but even then you can’t be sure until there’s no change over a long long time. I tried going to a chiropractor years ago about my sore knees and it was useless. I didn’t figure out why it was happening until I saw a physiotherapist who said my IT band was really tight - and I saw results over time. My knees still do hurt (literally like 2 years later) but now I know how to help them hurt less. It can be hard to be patient when you’re anxious but it’s necessary.
Thanks for showing me that sciatic nerve glide stretch. A lot of other people on the internet seem to recommend that stretch too.
However, there are two versions: the lying down one, and the seated one (with legs hanging off a table). What's the difference between the two, and which one is better?
Also, I'm at 20 reps now for that glute initiation exercise. Foam roll before, and stretch after. No pain so far.
Going for 25 reps tomorrow.
I think the variations can be personal preference/ability. Might be worth asking your physio person or googling. But I know for my hips, they are very flexible and I don’t feel a stretch unless I lay down and pull my leg towards me. But the nerve glide stretch is very challenging and I can barely grab my leg.
Were you instructed to keep increasing repetitions? Only asking because my experience for glutes has been changes in the exercises over time. I was doing clamshells then banded clamshells and now the fire hydrant one. Also progressed from the bridge pose favouring one leg to doing single-leg brides now (gosh it’s hard!!). I’m definitely noticing my glutes engaging more now but still not in a balanced way. It’s been well over a year.
Definitely takes time. I am sorry it’s so expensive for you though, my provinces insurance covers this for me because I was injured repeatedly lmao. Really makes you think healthcare needs to be more universal. This stuff is important for basic functioning...
Yeah, it's funny because I saw the athletic therapist on Friday, and he gave me the same sciatic nerve glide stretch as you (the lying down one).
I also tried the sitting one, but didn't really feel anything.
I still think the best stretch is when you lie in a doorway, put your leg up against the wall, then use a belt or strap to pull down on your foot. You can position your foot at an angle to stretch the sciatic nerve, and truly go all in.
Anyways, the therapist performed some soft tissue manual therapy on me, then told me to go home and do 20 reps of that glute initiation exercise.
He mentioned that my "upslit" was a lot better than last time.
I also asked him about doctors and osteopaths. He said that I wouldn't have to see a doctor unless the pain persists for over 3 months (it started in January)...
I asked him if I should see an osteo or massage therapist. He said, "if I were to choose between the two, I'd go with an osteo."
So I went home, and the next day, I did 20 reps of that exercise.
A few hours later, I started experiencing the pain running down the left side of my leg again.
I'm going to have to call the therapist tomorrow to see what he says, but this is getting really annoying.
The type of exercise doesn't matter, because all glute exercises result in pain.
It might be time to see an osteo...
Slow your roll mate. If you got the pain several hours after the exercise it doesn't sound related. If it happened immediately then I more likely could be. Did you do the sciatic stretch when you got the pain.
Listen to him, you've only just started therapy. Give it time.
Lol. It's been 6 months since I started feeling the pain.
He's telling me to do the same thing that I was doing before I met him. Telling me the exact same thing as past physiotherapists.
How can I strengthen a muscle that is impinged?
Why should I perform an exercise that causes me pain?
If I could heal the pain with squats and clamshells, then I wouldn't have to see him. My pain should be gone by now because ALL I WAS DOING WAS SQUATTING.0 -
... you seem to be having more physical problems and abnormalities with your musculoskeletal system than a retired linebacker with arthritis. I do hope you get everything resolved but have you possible considered that since it doesn't look like it's moving in that direction that either your tolerance for discomfort is so low that these issues you are experiencing are just normal reactions to exertion and exercise or they are serious and permanent enough that maybe bodybuilding/strength training isn't in the cards for you?
Anyhow - you've got nothing to lose by seeing a Osteopath. I assume you mean a D.O.?4 -
To recover from my injury I’m stretching 2h a day.... an hour in the morning and an hour at night. 45min isn’t unreasonable, especially if you’re still experiencing pain.0
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Very happy today.
Saw the shoulder specialist (2nd session) and he said that my shoulder movement had improved drastically from last time (upper traps feel much stronger, I must admit).
He gave me some pointers while watching me perform the exercises.
My shoulder bones are still 'cracking' and 'clicking' while I raise and lower my arms, but he said not to worry about it too much. Just focus on keeping my shoulders shrugged up and forward.
With the bicep curls, I got to keep my shoulders up, but prevent them from shrugging forward as I curl the dumbbell. If the shoulder moves forward even one bit, then I am cheating. Everything must be still and stable. My arms were shaking as I was doing this with 3 lb dumbbells. I had worked my way up to 10 lbs recently, but I guess my form was faltering.
The physio then told me that I could start doing standing rows with a long, stretchy resistance band. One leg forward, one leg back position. Once again, avoid shrugging the shoulders forward. Instead, keep them raised up all the way, and squeeze back at the end of the motion. As you extend your arms forward again, keep them straight, but ensure that your posture remains upright all the way through. Straighten posture with the chest, and with the lower back.
Also, he said that I can start strengthening my rotator cuffs by putting pressure on my wrists (from different directions), and resisting.
My posture is still s.hit. I have to remind myself constantly throughout the day to extend through my chest and lower back, while pushing my glutes forward (to prevent excessive posterior pelvic tilt). This gets tiring fast.1 -
Regarding my sciatica treatment: I've been trying to stretch every so often while at work, and before I sleep. It's been keeping my sciatica at bay for the past few days. Still too scared to do the wall squats and clamshells, but maybe soon I'll try.
I emailed a few health centres across my city inquiring about the best osteopath suited to treat sciatica.
I was referred to a guy named Ian McCarthy. Here is his bio:
Ian has triple professional titles as an Osteopathic Practitioner, Athletic Therapist and Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist.
"Ian graduated with a BSc (Hons) Sports Rehabilitation and Athletic Therapy with first class honours in 2010, from Ireland. This 4 year degree provided Ian with an excellent platform of knowledge in the treatment of neuromusculoskeletal injuries.
Ian completed a postgraduate sports medicine clinical training programme at the esteemed Stanford University Sports Medicine in California. He gained vast experience in the prehabilitation, treatment and rehabilitation of Olympic, NFL, ATP, MLS and elite NCAA athletes. In addition he furthered his skill set completing an array of continuing education courses and is a:
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS)
Certified Functional Movement Screen (FMS)
Certified Kinesio Taping Practitioner (CKTP)
Ian then graduated from the British School of Osteopathy with a Masters Degree in Osteopathy – a 2 year period during which time he continued to gain experience treating privately elite athletes and the general population. He uses a wide variety of techniques – spinal and joint mobilizations, fascial release, visceral, deep tissue massage, trigger point release and taping.
Sports injuries – recreational, weekend warriors and elite athletes!
Occupational injuries
Injury prevention and rehabilitation.
Postural correction
Functional Movement Assessment and Correction.
Ian is an active member of the Society for the Promotion of Manual Practice Osteopathy (SPMPO)."
http://vancouverosteopathycentre.com/about-us/
I was also referred to Ila Casselman:
"Ila Casselman, M.Ost.Med
Ila is an Osteopathic Practitioner who received a Masters Degree in Osteopathic Medicine from Southern Cross University in Australia. Ila had a thriving Osteopathic Practice in Australia for 5 years, prior to moving to Vancouver and she is excited about sharing her passion for Osteopathy with Qi patients.
Ila will use many different Osteopathic techniques such as Muscle Energy Technique (MET), Myofacial Release, Mobilisation and Spencer and Still Techniques. She will create a custom treatment plan tailored to your individual needs. Please wear loose and/or stretchy clothing for your treatments."
http://www.qiintegratedhealth.com/treatments/osteopathy/0 -
My sciatica has been pretty bad this week.
The dull, nagging pain just won't go away, despite all the stretching that I've been doing.
Therefore, I have no motivation to do any lower-body exercises (I'm scared that it will cause more pain).
Just been doing my shoulder exercises, which I'm getting better at.
The cracking in my shoulders is starting to go away when I focus on shrugging them up and forward all the way through on the stick raising/lowering exercise.
Booked an appointment to see the osteopath, Ian McCarthy in the upcoming weeks.0 -
Got to give a big shoutout to PAFC84. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as an osteo before you mentioned it.
This osteo, Ian McCarthy, is a god-send.
He discovered the root of my problem: a pelvis that is constantly shifted to the right.
Because I am always standing on my right leg (shifting most of my weight onto it), this causes my left pelvis to rotate forward, while the right one moves back.
Overtime, this asymmetry becomes permanent.
Surprisingly, my left hamstrings are elongated (overstretched) and more flexible than my right hamstrings.
My left groin is more flexible than my right groin.
My left glutes are tighter, BUT STRONGER, than my right glutes.
My left hip flexor is tight.
These are the instructions that Ian gave me:
DO NOT stand on right leg.
DO NOT stretch left hamstrings, left groin, and right glutes.
DO NOT strengthen left glutes.
DO pretty much the opposite of all the "DO NOT'S":
So stand on left leg, stretch right hamstrings, right groin, and left glutes.
Strengthen right glutes (so that my right has enough power to push me over onto my left).
I found a couple of online articles that describe my problem pretty well:
http://novusfitnesstraining.com/lateral-pelvic-tilt-and-lower-back-pain-the-connection/
http://chadwaterbury.com/align-your-pelvis-to-reduce-pain/
I will also be posting the 3 exercises that Ian recommended I do.
Stay tuned.1 -
Left hip ligament release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQxBkO_naDY
Left hamstring shortening/pelvic realignment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asNw5aVgXfM
Right single-leg glute bridge with resistance band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F621yJk7a2o
Finally, I can see the light.0 -
Saw the shoulder specialist today.
Explained to him that my left scap still feels like it can't retract as far back as the right scap; like it doesn't wrap around the rib cage properly.
He had me retract my shoulder blades and said that nothing looked wrong (even took a picture to show me).
My shoulders don't crack anymore during the wooden stick exercise, but when I try to do the same exercise with a dumbbell, my left shoulder makes the cracking noise at the bottom of the motion.
The physio said that this 'clicking' was a result of the shoulder bones scraping against one another. Note that this only happens on my left side.
I managed to do a few reps without causing the sound, but my physio told me not to do that exercise for now.
Instead, he added planks, DB rows, single DB shoulder presses, and assisted push-ups to my routine.
Hopefully, these exercises will get rid of the cracking and help my left scap to retract more, he said.
If there's no improvement after a few weeks, he's going to start treating my neck.3 -
Tried doing the shoulder exercises today, and I still felt very asymmetrical.
During the assisted push-ups, my right scap was working more. It was retracting better than the left during ALL of the exercises.
On a more positive note, the pain running down my left leg has dissipated since starting the osteopathic exercises.1 -
Just wanted to hop on here quickly to say that stretching is not always the answer.
Most of the time, stretching only targets the symptoms, not the underlying cause.
This is why my problems never got better, despite stretching everyday.
In fact, they actually got worse, because stretching my left hamstring so much resulted in elongation.
It's been over 2 weeks since I started doing the osteopathic exercises, and my sciatia is completely gone now.
So for all you people who think that stretching constantly everyday will solve your problems... it won't.
Stretching is NOT the answer. I repeat: stretching is NOT the answer.3 -
In a few minutes, my osteopath was able to identify the root cause of my shoulder dyskinesis: a tight thoracic spine.
I have to do these two exercises everyday for a few weeks before seeing him again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRo2bVxYEwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWCkbFBmu_8
0 -
He told me that before I can squat properly, I have to fix my pelvis, my thoracic spine, and my core.
My pelvis is fixed, my thoracic spine will be fixed, and so next time, we'll work on my core.
P.S. My left glute still feels extremely tight sometimes. I think this is something that I'll just have to live with for the rest of my life. My osteopath says I can foam roll and stretch it out + do the pelvic exercises to keep it at bay, but yeah, I think I just have to accept the fact that my left side is more susceptible to tightness.0 -
It took me 6 months to see improvement for similar issues. I went through a bunch of doctors and finally got referred to a really good physical therapist. 5 years later, I’m still having shoulder pain related to scapular winging, so things are not completely resolved. I was able to start Strong Lifts in February though, with the blessing of my doctor. I use smaller dumbbells for many of the exercises rather than the bar. This helps because they allow each side to work more independently and my body isn’t ready for the full weight of the bar yet.
I would say to continue to work diligently toward your goal, and listen to your professionals on how long it should take, and the progress they’re measuring in you.1
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