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What the Health?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.
The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.0 -
rashadlc1980 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.
Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
What specific claims?
The scientific claims from the China Study. Not just a film or a blog I read, but the actually 300 + page book that I picked up from the book store. It's backed by scientific studies.
I've read the book, as well as over 50 others on diet/nutrition. The China Study is flawed and has been picked apart pretty thoroughly.7 -
rashadlc1980 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.
Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
What specific claims?
The scientific claims from the China Study. Not just a film or a blog I read, but the actually 300 + page book that I picked up from the book store. It's backed by scientific studies.
I've read that book too. I am not so convinced (would be happy to talk about why). However, I was talking about the movie specifically, as my understanding (have not seen it) is that it makes claims about the dangers of eating meat that are not supported. So I was curious which particular claims in the movie were compelling in your mind, as so many knowledgeable vegans I know have been rather dismissive of it or embarrassed by it.
I guess it cites to the China Study (some other Campbell-related flick I saw on Netflix did too, but they all run together in my mind now, maybe FoK?), so is that what you meant by the claims? The claims in the China study book?
I understand that improving your diet by going vegan and losing weight has improved your test results, but that doesn't say if it's the removing animal products bit that did it.3 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.
The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.
I believe the study was T Colin's (and others working with him), but Thomas (his son) helped him with the book. I think janejellyroll was talking about the study, which was being attributed to Thomas (who has his own diet stuff now, probably affiliated with his dad's).2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.
The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.
I believe the study was T Colin's (and others working with him), but Thomas (his son) helped him with the book. I think janejellyroll was talking about the study, which was being attributed to Thomas (who has his own diet stuff now, probably affiliated with his dad's).
Precise as always. Thanks Lemurcat.2 -
Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.
The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.
Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.
I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...
There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.
It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.
The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.
Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of the study, but I was unaware that there was a co-author on the book with that name.1 -
I'm going to make a documentary as to why meat is awesome. I can make up lies and say that Kale causes osteoporosis and pancreatic cancer and people would believe me just because its in a documentary.
9 -
TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »I'm going to make a documentary as to why meat is awesome. I can make up lies and say that Kale causes osteoporosis and pancreatic cancer and people would believe me just because its in a documentary.
You'll need to get some lab coats, and offices with lots of books for your interviews.10 -
TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »I'm going to make a documentary as to why meat is awesome. I can make up lies and say that Kale causes osteoporosis and pancreatic cancer and people would believe me just because its in a documentary.
Also make some blog posts so you can point to them as your scientific sources to back up your claims.5 -
My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.15 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.
[edited by MFP Mods]16 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.
[edited by MFP Mods]
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.21 -
It seemed a little hysterical to me but if it scares people into eating vegetables more often I really don't see the harm in it.3
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stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
[edited by MFP Mods]
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.
What if I told you...... I was making a general statement... maybe you should think that through for a minute, like I said I have no interest in arguing with anyone. You take what you will from this thread.11 -
rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!2 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.
[edited by MFP Mods]
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.
What if I told you...... I was making a general statement... maybe you should think that through for a minute, like I said I have no interest in arguing with anyone. You take what you will from this thread.
Blue zones that include meat. Explain those.7 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
[edited by MFP Mods]
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.
What if I told you...... I was making a general statement... maybe you should think that through for a minute, like I said I have no interest in arguing with anyone. You take what you will from this thread.
You say "do your research" and you're spouting unsupported, unsupportable woo.
Your position is erroneous at best.11 -
stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. [If you dont understand that perhaps picking up some self improvement books will help] have a good day.
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.
What if I told you...... I was making a general statement... maybe you should think that through for a minute, like I said I have no interest in arguing with anyone. You take what you will from this thread.
You say "do your research" and you're spouting unsupported, unsupportable woo.
Your position is erroneous at best.
I'm fairly certain the "do your own research" line is code for "I can't prove my woo"17 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
Ever hear of the Blue Zones?2 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
Ever hear of the Blue Zones?
Vegan mockumentaries don't tend to acknowledge those7 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn
If she asked the question, presumably she would be interested in learning if you actually had something credible to support the claim.
Most of us in the conversation have read quite a bit about nutrition, which is why the exaggerations and worse in these kinds of "documentaries" (there are ones supporting other diets too) sticks out to us, in part.do your own research
She has. If you have something you think is definitive or even compelling, I'd think you'd want to share. So when someone says "do your own research" I tend to assume they have nothing.If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from.
I have read some of Greger's stuff (I know he's involved), so I know he cherry picks.
I've read the China Study (apparently one of the sources), so I know that's not so compelling.
I've read the study about processed meat (I don't eat all that much processed meat anyway, and I think there are huge correlation issues there), and I know what's said about it in the movie (and apparently the effort to extend it to all meat) is misleading.I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals.
I think being vegetarian for ethical reasons, if that is what you are saying, is great. It's something I've thought a lot about, and I was vegetarian for a while, but ultimately the things that I really have an issue with relating to meat eating can be dealt with without requiring me to give up meat (I understand having an ethical issue with killing animals for food when it's not necessary, but I don't).
I don't think the claims that eating meat is inherently bad for your health hold up. As mentioned, most blue zone diets include some meat. I think eating fish, in particular (despite some of the environmental issues) is probably beneficial for one's health, overall (even apart from the fact that I love it).
I'm open to learning more, but exaggerations and misleading claims and correlations alone are not that useful. (I think the correlations do tell us some things, but not much about whether meat itself is an issue.)Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone.
Weird analogy, but in fact Al Capone was not given the death sentence and did not even die in prison, but served his sentence (for tax evasion) and was paroled. He was already extremely ill (largely due to syphilis) by that time, though. He lived another 8 years and died in Florida, although he had dementia (the syphilis) during that time.
He's buried in Cook County, IL, however.12 -
rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I have extremely bad allergies as well. I did a full paleo diet for 3 years, religiously. It was very meat and animal product heavy (save dairy), and after 6 months, ALL of my seasonal allergies disappeared.
Your allergies got better because you reduced the systemic inflammation in your body, very likely be removing dairy from your diet (this is common, however not everyone has this issue). Once your body was no longer as inflamed as it was, it was able to deal with your allergies.
It had nothing to do with no longer eating meat.7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Weird analogy, but in fact Al Capone was not given the death sentence and did not even die in prison, but served his sentence (for tax evasion) and was paroled. He was already extremely ill (largely due to syphilis) by that time, though. He lived another 8 years and died in Florida, although he had dementia (the syphilis) during that time.
He's buried in Cook County, IL, however.
LULZ
BTW, whenever I see someone saying, "I'm not interested in arguing," or similar, I immediately translate it as, "I don't know what I'm talking about. Please don't confuse me with facts. I've supposedly done research, who cares if my conclusions are utterly incorrect?"
15 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.
[edited by MFP Mods]
I have done my own research, I'm super interested in the subject. I'm a vegan and I would absolutely love reliable evidence that meat is bad for humans because it might give some additional people motivation to avoid it. But nothing I've learned has led me to conclude that meat, in and of itself, will cause harm to people.
Also, Al Capone was never sentenced to death. He served time in prison, but died a free man. I have no idea what that has to do with anything we were discussing, but just wanted to take a moment to make you aware of that.
This is the debate area. I agree with you that there is no point in you engaging in this conversation if you don't enjoy debate.11 -
Pages later, and maybe I missed it in the discussion, but it really annoyed me how they jumped from "processed meat" (note the quotes) to "meat" with nary a nod!6
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singingflutelady wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
Ever hear of the Blue Zones?
Vegan mockumentaries don't tend to acknowledge those
What I find so interesting about the Zones is that there's only one vegetarian group that meets the requirements, but of that group there's a sub-group that still eats fish, (so pescetarian), and they have even better longevity of life outcomes than their vegetarian counterparts. It's a very 'closed' community and they're pretty similar in other aspects, (it's the Seventh Day Adventist group in Loma Linda, CA).6 -
stormcrow2 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!
Right? But just the traditional ones, none of those new fandangle ones.
4 -
StarvingDiva wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!
Right? But just the traditional ones, none of those new fandangle ones.
Poppy*kitten*.
The double-stuff are awesome. Surprisingly, as much as I like the double-stuff, the new thin ones are really good too.1
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