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What the Health?

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Replies

  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
    https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

    Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
    .
    I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it. :)

    My blood work panel actually got worse while I was doing my low fat/higher carb plant based experiment. I went in expecting to see improvements on my already good numbers and instead saw my numbers go in a negative direction-the first time this has happened in 5 years, (and I get blood work panels done twice a year). Going LFHC plant based did nothing beneficial for my health and instead I had some pretty crappy side affects from it. Ended up ditching it and reintroduced dairy and meat and I feel a lot better now. I go in for my next blood work in October and it will be interesting to see how that panel compares to the one I had while I was doing my plant based experiment, from earlier this year....
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
    https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

    Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.

    What specific claims?
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,736 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
    https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

    Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
    .
    I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it. :)

    I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

    I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

    And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

    wouldn't cigarettes technically qualify as vegan?
  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member


    [/quote]

    Not sure what you think that would prove? It sounds like you think a meat-eating friend with your stats would automatically have a less healthy blood panel.

    eta: Have you ever actually done this?[/quote]

    Only to myself, the before and after. I have presented a comparison with a couple of friends of mine but none have taken their blood test.

  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
    https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

    Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.
    .
    I always present a challenge to my meat eating friends. Let's take a blood test and compare results. Then we can go from there. Nevertheless, I remember the days when I used to bash on vegans. In fact, I thought it was a satanic cult when I first heard about it. :)

    I eat meat...all of my blood work is in the optimal range.

    I'm not bashing vegans...it's a fine way to eat...but to suggest that people who eat meat can't be healthy is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest populations in the world eat meat. I also eat a ton of veg...for whatever reason it seems vegans and vegetarians think that because you eat meat automatically means you don't eat veg...I eat more veg than my wife's vegan girlfriend who is obese af...

    And give me a break...sauteing cigarettes and saying that is the same as eating meat is over the top absurd and makes you and anyone who thinks this crockumentary is factual a fool...

    wouldn't cigarettes technically qualify as vegan?

    Just because it's vegan, doesn't mean it's healthy. I can load up on vegan junk food all day and saturated oils, but doesn't mean it's a wise choice.
  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

    The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Thanks for the correction. I'm sure there are claims that are against it. Isn't that with everything? So sometimes I have to put the tests to myself. A group of friends started this high carb low fat. 1 was diabetic, Myself, suffered from gout. 8 out of 9 were able to improve every health area of their low, from low t, (my gout) , and diabetes. This was months before the documentary came out. The one that wasn't successful, actually tried, but had also suffered from other health issues, that are probably best with pharmeceutical drugs. We are all plant based now and haven't turned back. The biggest benefits was high energy. Most of us work office jobs.

    The point of this all: There's always going to be criticism, There's always going to be a new study that will debunk something, including the vegan lifestyle. It's always best to try and test for yourself instead of using another mans claim. I put it to the test and it's the best lifestyle. I can't speak for anyone else. just me!

    Pretty much anyone who moves away from the SAD is going to experience improved health and improved health markers...I eat a balanced diet consisting mostly of whole foods...lots of veg and fruit, some whole grains, legumes, lentils, etc....i also eat quite a bit of fish and other lean sourced protein and beef about once per week...all of my health markers went from my doctor telling me I'd probably be sick if not dead by 60 if I didn't get it together to being optimal...and I eat meat.

    Nobody is saying a plant based/vegan diet isn't healthy...it's just that there are many ways of eating healthy and the preachy thing gets a bit old and crockumentaries like this are big time on fear mongering propaganda to further an agenda.

    One of my wife's very good friends is a vegan...she is obese...she has about zero fitness. Both my wife and I are carnivores that eat an overall healthy and balanced diet consisting of mostly whole foods...we are both lean and fit and have optimal health markers...

    I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,270 Member
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

    The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    Really?!? Here's a vegan's take on that pile of crap...
    https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Let me add that I think it is great that you have found a WOE that works for you, but please don't support over-hyped propaganda and pseudo-science as a reason for choosing that WOE.

    Um okay... I've read plenty of books before this film came out that scientifically support this claims.

    What specific claims?

    The scientific claims from the China Study. Not just a film or a blog I read, but the actually 300 + page book that I picked up from the book store. It's backed by scientific studies.

    I've read that book too. I am not so convinced (would be happy to talk about why). However, I was talking about the movie specifically, as my understanding (have not seen it) is that it makes claims about the dangers of eating meat that are not supported. So I was curious which particular claims in the movie were compelling in your mind, as so many knowledgeable vegans I know have been rather dismissive of it or embarrassed by it.

    I guess it cites to the China Study (some other Campbell-related flick I saw on Netflix did too, but they all run together in my mind now, maybe FoK?), so is that what you meant by the claims? The claims in the China study book?

    I understand that improving your diet by going vegan and losing weight has improved your test results, but that doesn't say if it's the removing animal products bit that did it.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

    The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.

    I believe the study was T Colin's (and others working with him), but Thomas (his son) helped him with the book. I think janejellyroll was talking about the study, which was being attributed to Thomas (who has his own diet stuff now, probably affiliated with his dad's).
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,270 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

    The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.

    I believe the study was T Colin's (and others working with him), but Thomas (his son) helped him with the book. I think janejellyroll was talking about the study, which was being attributed to Thomas (who has his own diet stuff now, probably affiliated with his dad's).

    Precise as always. Thanks Lemurcat.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    edited August 2017
    The film is excellent. It's backed by science from studies of Dr. Neal Barnard and the China study with Dr. Thomas M. Cambell. You will always have a debate of which is the right diet and there will always be something with a bias research study showing that a plant base lifestyle is wrong. Both of these doctors that I mentioned came from meat eating farming and was unbiased with their studies.

    The Documentary "what the health" is shedding light on the issue but I would encourage to do further reading with The china study and with Dr. Neal barnard studies.

    Personally, I've done most of the popular diets, from high protein low carb, all fruit, High protein MEAT, etc... and the only one that worked for me is High carb low fat plant/vegan diet.

    I don't count calories like I used to, and I have more energy than ever as well as losing body fat...

    There comes a time where you got to set aside all the blogs, reviews, etc.. and just try for yourself.

    It's T. Colin Campbell, by the way, not Thomas M. Campbell. Neither man has an unchallenged claim to non-bias, there are serious concerns about claims made by both.

    The film itself is receiving criticism from science-based vegans, including RD Virginia Messina. Making claims that aren't backed by the facts is actually a poor form of vegan advocacy. If people know we're lying or being deceptive about the health risks of meat or the benefits of veganism, they will (legitimately) wonder if vegans are lying about other things as well. Here is a link to Messina's recent critique: https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

    Isn't the book actually T. Colin AND Thomas M Campbell? Just for the record.

    Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of the study, but I was unaware that there was a co-author on the book with that name.