August 2017 Running Challenge

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Replies

  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    kristinegift wrote: »
    @MNLittleFinn Track work can be really beneficial for trails and vice versa. Track work will help your overall fitness and speed, and trail runs will help with cadence and strength. Best of both worlds!! This winter/spring before I got lazy for 3 months, combining the two led to huge gains and my HM PR.

    That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of hit a plateau right now with just doing trail and easy road, so I'm hoping that adding the speedwork will help supercharge things for me.
  • puglife456
    puglife456 Posts: 127 Member
    It's been so hectic lately I haven't had much of a chance to walk or run. It's rainy today but hopefully in the afternoon it will clear up so I can get out and move around a bit.

    August 9: 5.0 miles
    August 10: 4.0 miles
    August 11: 6.0 miles
    August 12: 0 miles
    August 13: 3 miles
    August 14: 0 miles
    August 15: 1 mile
    August 16: 1 mile
    August 17:
    August 18:
    August 19:
    August 20:
    August 21:
    August 22:

    ...
    Total miles logged in August: 20.0 miles
    Total miles left to go in August: 70 miles
  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,380 Member
    edited August 2017
    @JimCrackinDandy eek! If those guys started raining down around me, I'd run off very quickly too :grin:

    @Wolfger Great job on finishing W3D3, enjoy your camping trip!

    @MobyCarp I'm really sorry to hear about your injury! I hope you recover quickly.

    @amymoreorless About your interval paces: As long as you gave it a real effort, it still counts!

    ---

    Regarding intervals, one question to everyone: If I look at the McMillan calculator, what time should I use for intervals? He has different ones for "speed" and "cruise" intervals, and despite watching the explanation videos, I couldn't figure out which one I should use.

    For example when I entered a 5k time of 26:54 which I ran in April, under speed paces it gave me "1:53-2:00 min for 400m" , while the cruise intervals listed above that are "2:08 to 2:13" for 400m.
    Or for 800m, it would be either "3:55-4:05 min for 800m" or "4:16-4:26 min".

    Last week I did 12x400m, and my times were between 2:05 and 2:14 minutes (and one in 2:24, but that was in a section of a park at night with no streetlights and some obstacles on the ground, so I'm not worried about that one). I know you should aim for even paces over all repetitions, but some of those 400m intervals had up to ~10m elevation gain, some up to 15m elevation loss, and some were mixed (like +9/-4 or +3/-4), which I use as a handy excuse for why I don't manage to hit the same pace for all of them...
    The week before that I did 6x800m, and I ended up between 4:14 - 4:32min, again depending on surface and slope.
    Naively, I would guess I should use the "speed paces" for speedwork. But while I hope on a flat, smooth track I would manage more even splits, even then I don't think I could hit the pace listed in the speed pace category of the calculator, for sure not for a number of intervals in a row!
    On the other hand, I ran a 5km parkrun last Saturday in 26:26, 28s faster than the old PR which I used to calculate my interval paces, so I don't think my failure to hit the speed paces is due to decreased fitness...?
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    8/01/2017 - 0 miles
    8/02/2017 - 9 miles Z3/Z4
    8/03/2017 - 7 miles Z2
    8/04/2017 - 5 Easy miles
    8/05/2017 - Cranberry Cup 5k - 23:18
    8/05/2017 - Howl at the Moon 5k - 25:11
    8/06/2017 - Rest
    8/07/2017 - 7.75 miles
    8/08/2017 - 6.5 miles Z2
    8/09/2017 - 7 miles Z2
    8/10/2017 - 7 miles Z2
    8/11/2017 - REST DAY BAH
    8/12/2017 - 15 miles (includes 15km "race" )
    8/13/2017 - Rest Day
    8/14/2017 - 7 miles Z2/Z3
    8/15/2017 - 9 miles Z2/Z3
    8/16/2017 - 6 miles Z3/Z4
    8/17/2017 - Cross Train - Strength

    Summer Goal: Get my marathon pace below 9 minutes.
    Official Marathon PR: 4:11:28

    Next Races (more as I find them):

    10/14/2017 - Stop, Drop, and Run - Fireman style obstacle course - 5km

    05/06/18 - Pittsburgh Marathon - aiming for sub four hours.


    Today I met with a trainer and got my anti-T-Rex workout plan. It seems I am planning to do 2 upper body strength workouts a week. So not much actual work today but my arms are tired anyways.

    The trainer broke it up into "pulling muscles" and "pushing muscles" so the idea is each on separate days, and I think they will be short enough that I will still be able to get a short run those days. Time will tell.

    Basically, I told the trainer that if I was out running and fell in a hole I was not sure I could pull myself back out! :lol: So we will see how this goes. I really need to make myself stick with it.

    The trainer did say the lower back and core parts of it will help with the running too, so there is that.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    @juliet3455 Did you try asking him to move out of the way? :p
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    juliet3455 wrote: »
    Wednesday Night club run. We were going to go up what we call Pats Creek but this jxb9w2qx1yra.jpg
    was at the Trail entrance so we yielded the hill to him.

    Looks like you would have a real bear of a time trying to use that trail.
  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    When I hit the point where my car was, I was at 3 miles when one of my favorite ever running songs just happened to come on, Jamestown Revival's "Revival", which, coincidentally, features the appropriate line " Ain't easy and I know it's gonna hurt, but it keeps me alive". Well, I obviously couldn't stop on that note, so I finished the song out then headed back to my car for a final distance of 4.4 miles.

    .

    @lporter229 the runner's equivalent of staying in your car until your favorite song is over. Great job!
  • BettyM1017
    BettyM1017 Posts: 616 Member
    @MobyCarp I pray your ankle and Achilles are healed quickly and completely!
  • wishiwasarunner
    wishiwasarunner Posts: 202 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Basically, I told the trainer that if I was out running and fell in a hole I was not sure I could pull myself back out! :lol: So we will see how this goes. I really need to make myself stick with it.

    The trainer did say the lower back and core parts of it will help with the running too, so there is that.

    I could feel a real difference in my form and fatigue level from strengthening my core with weight training. I knew it would help but was quite surprised at how big of a difference it made. Good luck with your new plan!
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    wishiwasarunner wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Basically, I told the trainer that if I was out running and fell in a hole I was not sure I could pull myself back out! :lol: So we will see how this goes. I really need to make myself stick with it.

    The trainer did say the lower back and core parts of it will help with the running too, so there is that.

    I could feel a real difference in my form and fatigue level from strengthening my core with weight training. I knew it would help but was quite surprised at how big of a difference it made. Good luck with your new plan!

    Cool. Hope something like that happens for me. It is always a little easier to stick with something when I get some tangible benefit from it. Just really not a fan of picking up heavy things and putting them back down. :sunglasses:
  • wishiwasarunner
    wishiwasarunner Posts: 202 Member
    August goals are 90 miles and figuring out what all the info from my new watch means about my training.

    Aug 3 - 10 miles
    Aug 4 - 6.2 miles
    Aug 5- 7.5 miles
    Aug 6- too rainy/ wimpy
    Aug 7- 7 miles
    Aug 10- 7.3 miles
    Aug 12 - 12.2 miles
    Aug 13 - 4.8 miles
    Aug 14 - 2.1 miles - short sunset river run - but with 610 feet of elevation gain
    Aug 17- 7.7 miles

    Not really sure I should count the last 2 or so miles of today's run. It was 90F and 75% humidity and I quickly fatigued and had to give up running and mostly was walking at the end and even with walking my heart rate was staying around 150. Ugh. I felt awful. I really don't know how those of you who put in so many miles in the heat do it. I would prefer sweat icicles freezing my sunglasses to my face any day to this...and yes I have experienced that.


    Total 64.8/100 goal -
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @_nikkiwolf_ my solution was to only do longer cruise intervals. Those are supposed to be stamina runs, it necessarily for speed, they are supposed to help with LT pace. The speed ones are supposed to be for VO2 max. You're supposed to struggle with the last two on the speed intervals, if that helps. The reason there is overlap is because some days are good days and some are bad, so aim for the fast end but know you might hit the slow end.
  • carolineb81
    carolineb81 Posts: 459 Member
    1/8-REST
    2/8-5.3
    3/8-3.6
    4/8-5.6
    5/8-3.1
    6/8-7.7
    7/8-REST
    8/8-4.3
    9/8-3.7
    10/8-REST
    11/8-8.6
    12/8-rest
    13/8-2.6
    14/8-5.1
    15/8-3.9
    16/8-4.7
    17/8-4.4

    Total - 62.6/120 Miles
  • carolineb81
    carolineb81 Posts: 459 Member
    @MobyCarp Hope you are feeling better soon
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    KatieJane83 wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »

    Pace for me was roughly 5k pace, for perspective.


    Have a Runderful day everyone!

    Ok, Disclaimer: I am NOT an expert and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in. But, I think short intervals are supposed to be run at a faster pace. My last summer track workout was 2x 2400m long intervals and the coach told us we should be pushing slightly faster than our 5k pace for those. When we've done shorter interval workouts he's told us to push pretty hard. I know, vague and non-specific, lol.

    Again, I could be totally wrong. Some of our awesomely experienced brethren will, I'm sure, chime in with better info than I have, lol.

    I missed the original post, so I don't know how long the intervals @MNLittleFinn refers to were. However, there are different paces used for different purposes in training, and you don't necessarily run all the shorter intervals hard.

    For reference, Coach has us train to the Jack Daniels system of R (rep) pace, approximately your one mile race pace; I (interval) pace, approximately your 5K race pace; T (threshold) pace, approximately lactic threshold; MP (marathon pace), pace to achieve goal marathon finish time. Sometimes he throws in non-standard paces, like Goal Race Pace (which will vary based on the length of the target race) or, in training for a short race, something even faster than R.

    Example: Tuesday's workout for people training for a mile race was 3-4 x 800 at R with 400 recovery, then 4 x 200 at "R-2 seconds" with 200 recovery. In other words, whatever your R goal is for 200 meters, he wanted you to run those 4 200's 2 seconds faster.

    In various workouts for various goals, I've seen R pace ranging from 200m to 800m, with 200 or 400 most common; I pace ranging from 200 to 2000m, with 800, 1000, and 1200m being common; T pace ranging from 800m to 4 miles; and MP ranging from one mile to 13 miles.

    Oh, yeah. E (easy) pace is also in the system. I've seen that assigned from 200m (recovery intervals) all the way up to 22 miles.

    So, while in general shorter intervals tend to be run faster than longer intervals, it's not a simple formula of X length implies Y pace. There is considerable overlap. My standard joke that I tell to 5K runners is that from a marathon runner's perspective, a 5K is just an interval workout: 4800m at I, plus 200m at R.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »

    Regarding intervals, one question to everyone: If I look at the McMillan calculator, what time should I use for intervals? He has different ones for "speed" and "cruise" intervals, and despite watching the explanation videos, I couldn't figure out which one I should use.

    For example when I entered a 5k time of 26:54 which I ran in April, under speed paces it gave me "1:53-2:00 min for 400m" , while the cruise intervals listed above that are "2:08 to 2:13" for 400m.
    Or for 800m, it would be either "3:55-4:05 min for 800m" or "4:16-4:26 min".

    Last week I did 12x400m, and my times were between 2:05 and 2:14 minutes (and one in 2:24, but that was in a section of a park at night with no streetlights and some obstacles on the ground, so I'm not worried about that one). I know you should aim for even paces over all repetitions, but some of those 400m intervals had up to ~10m elevation gain, some up to 15m elevation loss, and some were mixed (like +9/-4 or +3/-4), which I use as a handy excuse for why I don't manage to hit the same pace for all of them...
    The week before that I did 6x800m, and I ended up between 4:14 - 4:32min, again depending on surface and slope.
    Naively, I would guess I should use the "speed paces" for speedwork. But while I hope on a flat, smooth track I would manage more even splits, even then I don't think I could hit the pace listed in the speed pace category of the calculator, for sure not for a number of intervals in a row!
    On the other hand, I ran a 5km parkrun last Saturday in 26:26, 28s faster than the old PR which I used to calculate my interval paces, so I don't think my failure to hit the speed paces is due to decreased fitness...?

    @_nikkiwolf_

    In the context of the Jack Daniels system I'm more familiar with, it looks like the McMilan "cruise intervals" are the equivalent of the Jack Daniels I pace, roughly equivalent to your 5K race pace. It looks like the "speed paces" are the equivalent of the Jack Daniels R pace, roughly your one mile race pace. So you're a European; based off your 26:54 5K time, that would predict you could run a 1600m race in about 8 minutes flat, perhaps a few seconds faster. And that's the pace the system is asking you to use to run speed intervals. I would not expect those speed intervals to be longer than 800m, and probably most of them are 400 or 200.

    I would expect the cruise intervals to be longer, usually no shorter than 800m but 1000, 1200, or 1600 could be used as you get into more intense training. You wouldn't want to do 1600m intervals at the speed interval pace, because that would be just like running a race of the same distance. For 6x800m, the speed interval pace would be brutally hard. I'd expect that workout to be designed for the cruise interval pace, unless you're in very heavy training for a competitive 1500m or 1600m race.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @MobyCarp I ran 12x400 with 200m recovery at ~1:51(7:27 pace) per interval, with a hammer drop to 1:38 for the last interval. It actually felt pretty easy Slowest interval was the first at 1:55. Had a 1 mile warm up in z1 and a 1 mile cool down in z1. My 5k PR last november was a 7:31 pace, for reference.

    I'm going with Ian Torrence's notion that doing speedwork, while good for all around fitness also pays dividends for Long distance in increast VO2 max and such.... I kind of felt like today's workout was too easy, I felt GREAT after I was done.
  • kristinegift
    kristinegift Posts: 2,406 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @MobyCarp I ran 12x400 with 200m recovery at ~1:51(7:27 pace) per interval, with a hammer drop to 1:38 for the last interval. It actually felt pretty easy Slowest interval was the first at 1:55. Had a 1 mile warm up in z1 and a 1 mile cool down in z1. My 5k PR last november was a 7:31 pace, for reference.

    I'm going with Ian Torrence's notion that doing speedwork, while good for all around fitness also pays dividends for Long distance in increast VO2 max and such.... I kind of felt like today's workout was too easy, I felt GREAT after I was done.

    @MNLittleFinn That is why 12x400 is one of my favorite workouts. It's fun to go fast and not feel totally wiped out afterward!! I'm hoping my friend's Hanson plan has another one on the agenda before our race in October (I'm not DOING Hanson's... just doing all her Hanson's workouts with her).
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited August 2017
    kristinegift wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @MobyCarp I ran 12x400 with 200m recovery at ~1:51(7:27 pace) per interval, with a hammer drop to 1:38 for the last interval. It actually felt pretty easy Slowest interval was the first at 1:55. Had a 1 mile warm up in z1 and a 1 mile cool down in z1. My 5k PR last november was a 7:31 pace, for reference.

    I'm going with Ian Torrence's notion that doing speedwork, while good for all around fitness also pays dividends for Long distance in increast VO2 max and such.... I kind of felt like today's workout was too easy, I felt GREAT after I was done.

    @MNLittleFinn That is why 12x400 is one of my favorite workouts. It's fun to go fast and not feel totally wiped out afterward!! I'm hoping my friend's Hanson plan has another one on the agenda before our race in October (I'm not DOING Hanson's... just doing all her Hanson's workouts with her).

    I'll admit, I really thought that 12x400 was going to wipe me out. Very pleasantly surprised at how good it felt. The last rep at 1:38 made me wonder if I could have gone faster, since even on thr last one, dropping 12 seconds from my my rep time didn't feel like anything.
  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    Hi all!

    8/4: 15.2k -Slow LR-
    8/6: 12k -w/u, 8k negative splits, c/d-
    8/7: 9.4k -Steady+strides, c/d-
    8/10: 10.6k -w/u+intervals-
    8/12: 10.2k -Trail run easy-
    8/13: 10.4k -urban run-
    8/14: 17.1k -Long run-
    8/17: 12.8k -w/u, Tempo run, c/d-

    Goal: 97.7k/150k

    All is well. Still struggling with the burners, but it doesn't seem to affect the training much.


    Take care and stay hydrated!
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,423 Member
    Crazy week going on... I will be back later to read all the activity and post some comments!
    Date........Miles.......Total
    08/01......5.49........5.49 - + Strength Training
    08/02......0.00........5.49
    08/03......5.13......10.62 - Treadmill
    08/04......0.00......10.62 - + kr30dc day 1, Strength Training
    08/05......9.69......20.31 - + kr30dc day 2
    08/06......0.00......20.31 - + kr30dc day 3
    08/07......4.47......24.78 - + kr30dc day 4, Agility
    08/08......0.00......24.78 - + kr30dc day 5, Strength Training
    08/09......5.09......29.87 - + kr30dc day 6
    08/10......0.00......29.87 - + kr30dc day 7, Strength Training
    08/11......4.44......34.31
    08/12......4.91......39.22
    08/13......0.00......39.22
    08/14......3.52......42.74 - + kr30dc day 8, Agility
    08/15......0.00......42.74 - + kr30dc day 9, Strength Training
    08/16......0.00......42.74 - + kr30dc day 10
    08/17......5.50......48.24 - + kr30dc day 11, Strength Training

    exercise.png

    My completed and upcoming Races - Let me know if you will be running too!
    02/05/17 - Surf City Half Marathon
    07/23/17 - San Francisco 1st Half Marathon
    10/14/17 - AIM for the Cure Melanoma 5K Walk/Run
    12/16/17 - San Diego Holiday Half Marathon
    07/22/18 - San Francisco 2nd Half Marathon
  • katharmonic
    katharmonic Posts: 5,720 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    When I hit the point where my car was, I was at 3 miles when one of my favorite ever running songs just happened to come on, Jamestown Revival's "Revival", which, coincidentally, features the appropriate line " Ain't easy and I know it's gonna hurt, but it keeps me alive". Well, I obviously couldn't stop on that note, so I finished the song out then headed back to my car for a final distance of 4.4 miles.

    @lporter229 I just added this song to my running playlist after this endorsement. The lyric "I'm just holding on for my survival" will likely come in handy too.

    Love the photo of the bear blocking the trail @juliet3455. I'm sure he was looking for some kind of toll payment that you could have negotiated.

    My legs felt really weary today so I took my running rest day today. Also did a nice epsom salt bath which felt pretty good.

    On the not so good end, I walked my dog on the trail by my house in the middle of the afternoon (last days to do this before new semester starts) and I came upon a guy I'm pretty sure was doing drugs of some kind. There was a setup of some kind of paraphernalia on a tree stump. Ugh. He collected it all up and left and I saw him get into a car parked on the street where the trail ends. I hope because I saw him he will decide that's not a good place to do his drugs anymore.
  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,380 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »

    Regarding intervals, one question to everyone: If I look at the McMillan calculator, what time should I use for intervals? He has different ones for "speed" and "cruise" intervals, and despite watching the explanation videos, I couldn't figure out which one I should use.

    For example when I entered a 5k time of 26:54 which I ran in April, under speed paces it gave me "1:53-2:00 min for 400m" , while the cruise intervals listed above that are "2:08 to 2:13" for 400m.
    Or for 800m, it would be either "3:55-4:05 min for 800m" or "4:16-4:26 min".

    Last week I did 12x400m, and my times were between 2:05 and 2:14 minutes (and one in 2:24, but that was in a section of a park at night with no streetlights and some obstacles on the ground, so I'm not worried about that one). I know you should aim for even paces over all repetitions, but some of those 400m intervals had up to ~10m elevation gain, some up to 15m elevation loss, and some were mixed (like +9/-4 or +3/-4), which I use as a handy excuse for why I don't manage to hit the same pace for all of them...
    The week before that I did 6x800m, and I ended up between 4:14 - 4:32min, again depending on surface and slope.
    Naively, I would guess I should use the "speed paces" for speedwork. But while I hope on a flat, smooth track I would manage more even splits, even then I don't think I could hit the pace listed in the speed pace category of the calculator, for sure not for a number of intervals in a row!
    On the other hand, I ran a 5km parkrun last Saturday in 26:26, 28s faster than the old PR which I used to calculate my interval paces, so I don't think my failure to hit the speed paces is due to decreased fitness...?

    @_nikkiwolf_

    In the context of the Jack Daniels system I'm more familiar with, it looks like the McMilan "cruise intervals" are the equivalent of the Jack Daniels I pace, roughly equivalent to your 5K race pace. It looks like the "speed paces" are the equivalent of the Jack Daniels R pace, roughly your one mile race pace. So you're a European; based off your 26:54 5K time, that would predict you could run a 1600m race in about 8 minutes flat, perhaps a few seconds faster. And that's the pace the system is asking you to use to run speed intervals. I would not expect those speed intervals to be longer than 800m, and probably most of them are 400 or 200.

    I would expect the cruise intervals to be longer, usually no shorter than 800m but 1000, 1200, or 1600 could be used as you get into more intense training. You wouldn't want to do 1600m intervals at the speed interval pace, because that would be just like running a race of the same distance. For 6x800m, the speed interval pace would be brutally hard. I'd expect that workout to be designed for the cruise interval pace, unless you're in very heavy training for a competitive 1500m or 1600m race.
    @MobyCarp Thanks a lot for these explanations! The comparison to 1600m race pace is really helpful, I didn't think of it like that.
    My best estimated time according to Strava for a mile is indeed close to 8 minutes, a bit faster (7:36) - but that was during a completely misguided race warmup where they were looking for adult volunteers to run with the 1mi race kids (the organisers didn't want the kids on the road alone, not all parents were runners, and one of them told me it would be a great warm-up - yeah, right, I won't fall for that one again this year!). The ~12 year old boy whom I was supposed to follow was insanely fast, and it all but killed me to try and keep up with him. You don't want to see my splits in the second half of the "real" race that I ran after that...
    The pace for that mile was 4:44min/km; the "speed paces" at the Mcmillan calculator start at 4:42-5:00 for 400. "Brutally hard" is a very accurate description. There's no way I would ever be able to run a 12x400m training workout at that pace. I think during that kids race I just managed it out of pure desparation because I knew I was not supposed to lose that kid :wink:

    So I guess I'll aim for the cruise interval paces for now. My next race will be a half marathon end of September, and with the one exception two weeks ago, all intervals on the training plan are between 800m to 1600m, so nothing too short.

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